Podcaster: Mike Simmons; Guest: Cesare Pagano and Andra Stoica
Title: Big Impact Astrononomy: Inclusive Astronomy Outreach with Cesare Pagano and Andra Stoica
Organization: Astronomy for Equity
Link : https://astro4equity.org/big-impact-astronomy-podcast/
Description: Cesare Pagano and Andra Stoica discuss their roles in the Inclusive Outreach sub-working group of the International Astronomical Union, focusing on making astronomy accessible to people with disabilities.
Andra Stoica explains how tools such as tactile sheets and 3D models allow visually impaired individuals to experience and understand astronomical concepts.
Highlight: Inclusive astronomy outreach is possible with simple tools: Tactile sheets, 3D models, and balloons with star stickers are powerful resources for teaching astronomy to the blind, making the universe accessible to all.
Big Impact Astronomy: Through the Telescope is a video podcast that highlights the remarkable work of astronomy enthusiasts worldwide. Hosted by Mike Simmons, this podcast showcases how astronomy is used to improve lives in schools, refugee camps, hospitals, and more. Each episode features dedicated volunteers who introduce STEM in developing countries, inspire girls to pursue science careers, and bring hope to communities in crisis. Join us as we explore the stories of these unsung heroes making a difference through the wonders of the cosmos.
Bio: Mike Simmons is the founder of Astronomy for Equity ( https://bmsis.org/astro4equity/ ). Others on the team, including people around the world in astronomy and space exploration, authors and philosophers, designers and artists and more will be added as the website is developed.
Mike founded Astronomers Without Borders in 2006 to unite astronomy and space enthusiasts around the world through their common interests. During the UN-declared International Year of Astronomy 2009, Mike led the effort to organize the Cornerstone Project 100 Hours of Astronomy in more than 100 countries, with an estimated one million people looking through outreach telescopes in one night.
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Show Notes:
- 🌍 Introduction to Inclusive Outreach Mike Simmons introduces Cesare Pagano and Andra Stoica, who work on making astronomy outreach inclusive for all.
- 🧑🦯 Cesare on Disability Inclusion Cesare talks about the importance of adapting astronomy outreach for people with disabilities, especially the visually impaired.
- 👀 Astronomy for the Blind? Andra shares how astronomy, typically seen as a visual field, can be enjoyed by blind and visually impaired individuals.
- 🧸 Tactile Tools for Learning Discussion of tactile tools like 2.5D printed sheets and balloons to help people feel and understand astronomical concepts.
- 🌌 3D Models of the Universe Andra explains how 3D models allow visually impaired people to understand concepts like the expansion of the universe.
- 🌠 The Emotional Power of Touch Cesare emphasizes how touching models creates an emotional connection with astronomical objects, making the experience more inclusive.
- 🪐 Bringing the Universe to Everyone They talk about their efforts to make astronomy accessible through resources and community sharing in the IAU’s outreach projects.
Transcript:
[00:00:00] Mike Simmons: Hello everyone. I’m Mike Simmons, the founder of Astronomy for Equity. Welcome to the podcast. Today we have two amateur astronomers who are very big in public outreach, but in ways that are different than what we usually see. We have Cesare Pagano from Italy, who is the chair of the Inclusive Outreach sub working group of the International Astronomical Unions.
Executive committee working group on equity and inclusion, which I can never remember the whole thing. Uh, and basically that means, uh, uh, it making sure that we include everybody in astronomy outreach is very, very important. We also have Andrew Stoica, who is the co chair of that. Uh, sub working group, I’m a member as well, very active.
And we’re going to talk about some things that you may not have seen before. So, uh, welcome Jazari and Andra, Jazari joining us from, uh, Italy. Andra from Romania. And it’s great to have you here. Thank you.
[00:01:07] Cesare Pagano: Hello everyone. And thank you, Mike, for arranging this. It’s a pleasure to be here.
[00:01:12] Mike Simmons: Well, this is going to be really, really interesting, I think.
And it’s one of my favorite topics because I’ve been involved in this for a long time as well. And so, um, the inclusive. Outreach, sub working group of all that other stuff that I’m not going to try and repeat. The International Astronomical Union, of course, this is, this is very, very important, but astronomy includes everybody, right?
I mean, we do outreach, we go out, everybody’s welcome. What, who are we missing?
[00:01:47] Cesare Pagano: Actually, inclusion can have many dimensions. It can be like, uh, cultural inclusion. You know, people may have different culture of the cloud You know, uh, speak about astronomy in different ways, have different references. Uh, it can be a gender inclusion.
But in our work, we decided to focus on inclusion of people with disabilities. So people who have, uh, uh, you know, visual impairments, uh, or, uh, hearing impairments or, uh, people on with motor impairments. Uh, the idea is to, uh, expand the way we do outreach. Uh, adopt new practices, new languages so that they can enjoy the outreach activities and approach astronomy just like the people without this environment.
Uh, and it’s just a matter of using the right language in a broad sense, where language can be a tool. Uh, but, uh, it can be done, it has been done, and that’s why we are here. And,
[00:02:51] Mike Simmons: uh, Andre, you’ve been doing this as well, and You’ve been reaching some people. And the thing is that most people don’t realize these people are excluded because they don’t see them.
They’re not at the events, but you have been working in astronomy for the blind. And every time I talk about astronomy for the blind. People’s eyes widen. It’s like, what, what does that mean? It’s it, we think of it as such a visual thing. And so how is it possible the, uh, the blind people can enjoy and take part in astronomy?
Actually,
[00:03:26] Andra Stoica: I recently got this reaction at, um, a recent conference, um, in which I participated and people were, wow. Do you really do astronomy with the blind people? Yes, we can do that. We have special tools. Uh, we have, um, not necessarily special methods, but, uh, simplified methods for, um, people with disabilities, especially for the, for the blind and visually impaired.
Of course, it’s easier when a person is only visually impaired, but, um, it’s possible with the blind also. It’s very fun. We have, uh, different, uh, Toys, I can name them, that, uh, they enjoy, and they can imagine astronomy. Actually, astronomy is not visual, except for the sky that you can see with your own eyes.
Astronomy is mathematical and, uh, everything can be transposed into tactile, audio, and other, uh, using other senses.
[00:04:30] Mike Simmons: We
[00:04:30] Andra Stoica: think it’s visual, but in reality, it’s not really.
[00:04:34] Mike Simmons: And most of astronomy, uh, the Chandra X ray telescope, the Hubble, uh, space telescope when it’s doing infrared. And, uh, Jane, uh, Jay West that is doing infrared from space.
They’re in space partly because we can’t see those things down here. Those wavelengths are other reasons too, but most of we and radio telescopes, we can’t see that stuff. So we just, we make pictures out of it, but I’m going to, we’re going to share some slides here of some of the things that you have done that show.
what we’re doing. So just talk us through this.
[00:05:12] Andra Stoica: Um, these are some, uh, tactile sheets. They’re actually simple drawings. Um, made, uh, two and a half D printed in two and a half D, not 3D fully. Um, this is a rubber sheet and when the printer head goes over it, it, uh, emits some heat and the rubber goes out a little so that, uh, it can be touched and felt, felt, uh, and the, um, the visually impaired and, uh, the blind people can actually see the picture, uh,
[00:05:49] Mike Simmons: What’s, what’s the reaction?
Um, I mean, these are things that I know they’ve heard about. This looks like a child, probably very interested, just like any other child. The curiosity is the same, everything else. What’s the reaction when they, they, they get a chance to understand this a little better this way?
[00:06:09] Andra Stoica: Actually, uh, they are used with the tactile sheets, uh, because, uh, all the schools use them a lot.
But, um, the greatest reaction is when you show them something 3D. There
[00:06:21] Mike Simmons: is something 3D there, it’s a little, little bit different though.
[00:06:25] Andra Stoica: Yeah, here we use, uh, we actually use very simple tools. Uh, this is a balloon. With, uh, some star stickers on it that you can feel, um, with your hand. And, uh, here, I think I was explaining the expansion of the universe and, uh, kid was, uh, touching the balloon and seeing the stars moving apart one from another.
Um, in all directions and, uh, with same speed and here you can have a presentation only on this topic and you can, uh, talk about it. I don’t know, one hour, one hour and a half, and they wouldn’t get bored of this, uh,
[00:07:05] Mike Simmons: this
[00:07:05] Andra Stoica: activity.
[00:07:06] Mike Simmons: That’s the same analogy we use for sighted people. We just don’t, they don’t have to feel the balloon, but it’s otherwise exactly the same, just to this one little adaptation that they have to touch it.
And be able to feel those stars there rather than see them. So here, I think you, is this.
[00:07:27] Andra Stoica: Yeah, this is a good example. So, because this is a tool, this already is one of the tools that amazes the blind people. Include including the adults, not only the kids, because they seeing everything in two D, they never imagined the rotation of the planets around the sun, and they are amazed.
Oh, wow. So the planets really move like this. So this is the sun. And when you explain that the sun also moves this, they are starting to be amazed. So this is the first step into their amazement. Uh,
[00:08:06] Mike Simmons: here
[00:08:06] Andra Stoica: also you can see a tool with the distances, um, the real distances from, of the stars, uh, within, um, a constellation.
There are some notions they heard about and, um, more complex information amazes them.
[00:08:23] Mike Simmons: Yeah. And, you know, the idea that. This very simple concept that things are moving around, they don’t see this. We describe this visually. And I think some people are surprised to know that they really can’t get a concept of this in 3d because they haven’t experienced it.
I’m going to, I’m going to go to something that I think is really an amazing, uh, example of that. That seems so simple to us.
[00:08:52] Andra Stoica: Yeah. Yeah, this is what I was talking about. This is the most impactful tool that we have. This is made by, um, the Biomare Planetarium and we are using it. And, uh, the greatest impact that it has is that the blind people can understand that the sky is curved.
They usually don’t understand this. Seeing everything on 2D, maybe they learn a school about, uh, the sky, the constellations, uh, the planets. But they only see it in, uh, 2D, uh, sheets. And when they start exploring the, the dome there, they start wondering, wow, the sky is actually curved. This is how you perceive it.
And I understood from the makers of this, uh, Planetarium, that their idea also came from, uh, from a blind person. Uh, they had visitors, uh, they’re exploring some 2D, 2. 5D materials, and, uh, they started talking about the planetarium, and the blind person asked, uh, what is a planetarium? They explained about the projection on a, um, on a dome, and they say, wow, but we want to see that also.
So do something for us. That’s how they, they got to this, uh, resource, this wonderful resource that is very helpful.
[00:10:18] Mike Simmons: So in this, in this case, they can reach up and feel the sky and realize that it’s curved in where the stars are, which seems like something that would be so obvious to us, really. Cesaria, I want to ask you about this because The, the sub working group, the, the whole idea is to share these materials and get more people to include these people, but there’s another aspect to that in, as a member of this, uh, sub working group, I’ve been involved with this for a while too, and we had.
A session in astronomy for equity, which we’ll get to later where we had somebody from a major NASA facility is doing 3d printing of objects in space who said, Oh, I never realized that because she just hasn’t experienced that. So, so this, this working group is not just to share how to include other people, but to.
educate people about the need for this and how the usual things that we do just don’t work. If you have a blind person there and you say, well, you know, if you’re looking at the night sky, they’ll never figure out what you’re talking about if they don’t know, because, you know, again, we’re used to this. We go out from when we’re very, very small and we see the sky is being curved.
But they’ve never seen
[00:11:49] Cesare Pagano: that exactly. And actually, this is the key point, right? Doing inclusive outreach. It’s not a miracle. It just requires some skills. And since, you know, there have been experiences around the world. But since probably 2009, the International Year of Astronomy, someone started with this.
And then many places, we have example of people who have developed this kind of skills and experience. So the idea of the workgroup was to share this experience, document it, publish it, and build a community around it so that, uh, you know, the, the, the many, uh, outreach practitioners around the world can, uh, learn from others and, uh, adopt inclusive practices without reinventing the wheel every time.
So there’s a wealth of knowledge around that can be much more if it’s shared and reused. And you were mentioning about, uh, you know, uh, the different, uh, background and attitude of people with the, uh, empowerment. That’s very true. And that’s the key. That’s why among the, uh, tools we develop, there are some good practices, how to work with the blind person, how to work with the person with the visual impairment, and just, to be more concrete.
I can mention a couple of things I learned. It has been a great learning experience for me. When you deal with blind people, first of all, there is a huge difference if they are blind from birth or if they develop blindness. Because people who are blind from birth They don’t have the concept of colors.
They don’t have the concept of clouds. So you cannot make analogies with these, uh, uh, uh, terms. Actually, you can explain colors with analogy with the sound, the different frequencies and so on. But you have to keep in mind what’s their paradigm. What’s their basic set of concepts and, and, and, and build on those.
You know, I still remember one of the more touchy feedback I saw from a person who was blind from birth, who attended one of the astronomy classes, simple things like the movement of Earth, the seasons, things like that, you know, our, uh, surrounding. At the end, she was very happy because she finally understood what is a sunrise and what is a sunset.
Now, if you think a person, uh, becomes thirty and, you know, uh, has never experienced a sunrise or a sunset, uh, that’s, uh, let’s say the reward for what we are doing at the end.
[00:14:31] Mike Simmons: That’s it. That’s amazing. And you, of course, there’s a beautiful background there of the, uh, the moon setting behind some hills. It seems to be taking a very long time for that to go down, which is our aim.
Yeah. It can take forever. And, uh, It’s such a simple thing to us and it’s such a beautiful thing. And even, you know, if you do, uh, uh, audible caption for this and say the moon setting behind the hills. What you’re saying, and this is not something I thought about before or heard about, that might not be adequate because they don’t know really what that means.
Exactly.
[00:15:12] Cesare Pagano: So you have to work with the, with their paradigms and, and, and, and, and set of acquired knowledge. I’ll just refer to that. So if someone is blind from birth, uh, they never realized how, you know, what is a sunrise? Why does sun disappear? What does it mean? What does disappearing mean? So
[00:15:34] Mike Simmons: this is, yeah, disappearing just like if they don’t, if it doesn’t appear to them, it can’t disappear.
Analogies with sound or something like that. And I’m going to bring up, uh, here, um, a page from the website for. this working group about different kinds of impairments. Now these are the resources and there are lots and lots of resources out there that people don’t realize for different kinds of impairments, whether it’s a visually impaired, uh, there’s also for the deaf mobility, uh, there are other kinds of, uh, Exclusions such as gender, LGBTQ, and things like this as well, or the people are not visible to us because they’re just not there.
So, we might mention those as well. There are, uh, for example, I know that, um, uh, sign language that the deaf use. They’re, um, Historically has not been any signs for the things that we talk about if we’re talking about cosmology and so on Uh, they can’t hear us They don’t know what we’re saying and the person who’s signing can’t translate it because they don’t have words for it So that’s changing now, too.
I believe
[00:16:57] Cesare Pagano: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And actually, just like an evolving language, also the sign language is going through some, uh, evolving troubles, let’s say, because there are different people developing signs for this. Like, I have the experience in Italy, uh, there is the, uh, the, the, um, professional community like IAU and so on has been working on some official Okay.
Sign languages for astronomy, but then there are also deaf amateur astronomers who have developed their own signs in the meanwhile So we have different signs some used in the everyday life by Amateur astronomers who are deaf some others coming from a more academic environment and so on, and they don’t always match.
And there are some, uh, discussions about which ones to use. I mean, just like an evolving language. So the important thing is that it’s happening, which that means that eventually we will have, uh, uh, science to speak about astronomy. But anyhow, we are also considering the, uh, international dimension of this, right?
Now, uh, there is a Romanian and American and Italian speaking in English, and it’s pretty common. For the sign language, it’s more difficult. Sign language is very important. much country dependent. There is an international sign language, but it’s more difficult. There is a double translation involved and so on.
So getting where there is an international recognized set of signs for astronomy will take a while. But as I said, the important thing is that the discussion is happening and things are moving.
[00:18:36] Mike Simmons: And one more example here too, that people don’t usually think about. Some of us have, uh, I’ve encountered this where people who are, um, restricted to wheelchairs are not able to reach the eyepiece of the telescope.
I mean, we have this too with, uh, with children, you know, every time, uh, the eyepiece is up high and if there’s not a stool and the parent picks them up and they grab the eyepiece to stabilize themselves and move the telescope. So, um, bringing the eyepiece to the person in this case is. is essential, and this is one of the solutions for doing that.
[00:19:14] Cesare Pagano: Right. And there are also others. This is just one example. Especially a lot of astronomers are very creative when it comes to finding solutions in a cheap way. So there are many ways to, uh, take an eyepiece to the eye of a person on a wheelchair. You know, the question is, you know, why doing that? That’s inclusion.
[00:19:35] Mike Simmons: Yeah.
[00:19:35] Cesare Pagano: Because, uh, you can look at, uh, James Webb Space Telescope picture, uh, you know, on paper. Uh, why looking at, uh, you know, a fuzzy little ball in an eyepiece or a small telescope? And this is true for everyone, not just for people in wheelchair. And the important, the big difference is that, uh, if you look at, uh, an object in aeronautics.
You are actually having a physical interaction with that object because the photons that your retina Left that object after the atmosphere of the star and so on, that is not to, uh, start from a PC screen. So it’s an emotional thing, right? So why excluding people on wheelchair from that? And that’s why it’s important.
[00:20:23] Mike Simmons: Yeah, I think so. And you mentioned also, um, the, uh, the idea of, uh, simple materials. And I think we have some really good examples of that here as well. So, uh. Andra, this is from Romania, I believe. And this is, uh, this is an example of how easy it is to include other people with materials. You don’t need a book or electronics or anything.
[00:20:50] Andra Stoica: Yeah, sure. Well, uh, this is an adaptation of a project, uh, which is also on, um, our website on the, um, sub work group website. Uh, we have used the styrofoam balls. And then we actually had fun with them. We painted, we added some wool, we, we, we were just very creative on this, trying to give them structure and, uh, texture, different textures, because we use them both with, uh, typical children and, uh, blind kids.
They enjoy them more because they, they feel the different structures on each, uh, planet. And, um, they can start a conversation from there and they have, uh, questions, but mainly this tool is used to, to be able to imagine the distances between the planets in our solar system, which is inaccessible for us also.
And for everybody, nobody can imagine these kinds of, uh, of distances, whether you see or not.
[00:21:56] Mike Simmons: And the distances there are proportional, um, which, which shows that we’re very close to, uh, the, the Earth is very close to Venus, far, a little farther from Mars, but then very far to go to Saturn and, I mean, Jupiter, and then much farther to go out to Saturn from there as well.
Yeah. Yeah. I think we
[00:22:17] Andra Stoica: go about, um, four meters with this, uh, string and we have another one. Um, it depends, uh, on how much distance you want to, to equivalent, uh, with, uh, one astronomical union, uh, unity, sorry. And, uh, you can go with the string as long as, uh, you want to go. We have another one which, um, unfolds for nine meters.
For the open spaces so that it would be more dramatic and kids can see, can imagine the huge distances in our, uh, solar system.
[00:22:54] Mike Simmons: And this is done for, um, those of us who are sighted as well and open fields in various ways where, uh, the, the huge distances are shown in models, sometimes permanent models like that as well.
Yeah. So, um, taking a, uh, another step further here, clearly, uh, do it yourself, uh, models here. So
[00:23:22] Andra Stoica: what do we
[00:23:22] Mike Simmons: have here?
[00:23:23] Andra Stoica: Uh, here we have, uh, some constellations on a hemisphere, uh, which are used, um, for group presentations with blind public. Um, we go from constellation to constellation. Um, these are an adaptation from, um, um, planetarium presentation from Valencia.
And, um, We like to adapt even more and to go into the stories and legends behind the constellations and talk a bit about some stars and clusters and we can talk a lot with these resources and the advantage is that we can have bigger groups to address using them.
[00:24:15] Mike Simmons: Yeah. And, uh, you, you mentioned the planetarium program, something we don’t have a picture of here right now, but this is an actual planetarium program for, uh, the visually, uh, impaired or low vision people, um, where they hold the, the, the dome of the sky in their lap.
But what’s interesting is again, while the tactile. Can be very beneficial also for people who are sighted to be able to see, uh, but also feel these things. The planetarium program can be done in a regular planetarium where the, uh, the people who aren’t able to see can feel it. So it’s the same planetarium show and we’re all doing it together.
Yeah, which I think is very important because, you know, rather than having only special, um, special schools or special events for people that are otherwise excluded. And here’s another example of something that, um, you created and this is, is beautiful and I think it looks great, but it’s tactile and, and, and also something that shows.
You know, I, I have a globe, but it does, it doesn’t have the relief like that. So being able to see the mountains and the relative sizes and so on is a big advantage too.
[00:25:45] Andra Stoica: Yeah. This, um, is a 3d printed resource. Uh, thanks to the, um, uh, Romanian, um, Astronomical Institute, uh, they made it from scratch, including the, um, the modeling behind it.
And this is a resource that is very much appreciated. By everybody. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:12] Mike Simmons: And
[00:26:13] Andra Stoica: usually in astronomy, we kind of forgot about our own planet.
[00:26:18] Mike Simmons: People
[00:26:19] Andra Stoica: usually talk about Mars or other planets, but the Earth is a bit neglected. So We want to show it wherever we go.
[00:26:30] Mike Simmons: Well, it’s not something that everybody actually understands.
If you haven’t seen it go over, you haven’t traveled and things like that. So, and the relief is, is something important too. And I started to bring up something here, uh, Cesare, to, to bring you back to the, um, the resources that the, um, sub working group has. Because this is. This is some of the examples of the resources that are shown that are available for people to be able to create for themselves.
Is that right?
[00:27:04] Cesare Pagano: Yeah. Um, actually no, there are the resources we share. There are also, uh, several, um, useful information and experiences shared in the recording. So the. Communicating astronomy to the public conference, which is the, uh, the event, uh, IA runs every year or two, uh, where we all gather and share experience and so on.
So, uh, that’s also documented. There are useful information and yeah. Yes, this, uh, picture shows again, simple resource system. Uh, another, uh, version of the, uh, planet’s distance rope that, uh, and talking about. Then there is, uh, uh. The model, uh, that shows the, uh, different, uh, sizes of planets in scale, this one on the top left, uh, one of the, uh, most interesting one is the one on the bottom right.
That’s the scale of the masses of the planets. So you can actually weigh those bolts and it will from the one gram of Mercury to the 5. 7 kilos of Jupiter. You know, one thing is to read on paper the mass of those planets in a very large number. Another thing is when you can feel the difference in our hands.
And as you were saying, it’s very important also for sighted people. Uh, for schools. Uh, I mean, we started these things, but experiencing and having a, uh, an understanding of these sizes and scales, that is not the numbers, but it’s actually a feel of the proportion. Uh, it’s something that, uh, only with these models you can actually get because they’re, uh, physical 3D, you can touch them.
Um, and again, there are many things like, uh, seasons. Uh, there is a model to. explain why we have seasons, why, uh, on earth it’s hotter when, at least in the northern hemisphere, when the, when the sun is, uh, far away. Uh, these are things that you read on paper, but when you have a model that shows you how the sun rays reach earth and what’s the difference in various periods of the year, uh, then you get it.
[00:29:23] Mike Simmons: Astronomy itself is not something easy for people to understand, um, regardless. And, uh, so. So explaining things can be difficult. We sometimes do a lot of hand waving or standing by a telescope, trying to explain things to people, and it’s not always entirely effective. So these things are good for everyone.
We’ve shared here the, uh, the website for the. Subworking group where the resources are. There’s also a section for best practices, um, that that is shared there. But there is also a way that you can get together, um, with others and learn something more, and that would be the, uh, Facebook group, which is here.
[00:30:13] Cesare Pagano: Yes, thank you. And by the way, on the web page, on the website, there are also all the links to the Facebook group. There is a mail contact. Uh, there are forms to apply to be part of the group. Uh, there are forms to submit resources so that they can be added to the pool. Uh, so all the reference information is there.
And the. Communication community is very important, very important aspect. And I think, uh, you know, what you, Mike, are doing with, uh, for me, for equity is very important. Uh, the, uh, actually, we are, we are trying to grow the community are very important because, uh, Uh, if you gather information and publish it on a website, it just sits there.
If you can grow a community, then those resources become used and they bring value.
[00:31:05] Mike Simmons: Yeah. And, uh, thanks for mentioning that. I’m going to share here then, uh, what, what it is that we’re doing now. This is going to be, uh, we’re actually going to be making a change here. So, um, Uh, this, this is going to move to another platform more than likely, but this is something that we’ve been doing in astronomy for equity, which is an adjunct to what, uh, is being done by everybody in the sub working group.
You’re sharing resources, you’re providing a place where people can ask questions, you’re sharing what you should do, but somehow it’s not enough. And as you both mentioned. You don’t know how to approach people who can’t see things. What do you say? How do you avoid being offensive? How do you guide them?
Do you take their hand? Do you wait for them to say something to you? And so this takes experience. And there, there are not too many people who want to get out there and try these things for themselves. So the idea of this, uh, community hub that we have started Uh, which right now is on groups. io. When this airs, it may be in another place.
So we’ll put that into the comments, uh, when the podcast airs that, uh, there are a lot of practitioners there who are sharing what they are doing, um, and how they have created their own resources. As you said, Cesare, they’re, uh, uh, you know, re reinventing the wheel each time. And these resources are there.
The. experiences there. I liken this to having a workshop where you all get together and you can talk to each other and you can look at your neighbor and say, how did you do that? I don’t get it. Um, we need that social aspect and that’s what this is for. Um, because there are amateur astronomers. All around the world doing outreach.
And we know that, uh, that the, the, the whole idea is to be inclusive because, you know, as amateur astronomers, we’ve discovered the universe and, and other people don’t know about that. We’re like evangelists. We’re out there saying, Hey, like John Dobson used to do, put a telescope out on the sidewalk and say, Hey, come look at the moon, you know, and that changes people’s perspective.
So the whole idea is to include people in what we’re doing and we’re missing A lot of people this way by not realizing that they’re not there. There are, are, are people that, that are missing there. So that’s what that group is all about as well. Um, to get these things out there, to get the knowledge out there and hopefully someday we’ll be able to tell people, Oh, we’re doing astronomy for the blind.
And then they’ll say, Oh yeah, I’ve heard about that. That’s really good. And for, for those. Who are, uh, disabled in terms of, uh, being in wheelchairs who are deaf and other things. So there are a lot of cultural aspects as to, and I, I, I don’t know if, uh, Cesari and Andre, do we work on that within the sub working group to make it?
There, there is work on gender equality. Um, the IU is very big on that, but there, there are other aspects too. That a lot of cultures do not necessarily include people in astronomy the same way that we do.
[00:34:39] Cesare Pagano: Yeah, right. And in our work group, uh, We have also to deal with the bandwidth we have. So we are focusing on the physical disabilities for now.
We are looking at the gender equality aspects, even though there is one difference because we focus on outreach, so on the public activities. We do not focus on the professional activity. In professional activity, the gender, uh, uh, diversity, can be probably more relevant because there can be more instances in public outreach.
It can be, you know, less of a critical aspect, even though the outreach can contribute to developing, you know, uh, more even distribution of STEM involvement. Yeah.
[00:35:33] Mike Simmons: And the, uh, the IU, the International Astronomical Union has made, uh, has done a lot of work in that regard. It’s very important because a lot of people, certain classes of people, whether it’s, uh, racial or gender are discouraged.
From doing science in a lot of ways and astronomy, you know, the whole theme of this podcast here, and we haven’t even talked about it because it’s not necessary. The whole idea here is to be able to include people. And we’re showing the ways that astronomy is used to include people to, uh, make lives better and so on.
And there are a blind. Uh, professional astronomers as well as outreach astronomers and so on. So there is no reason why the physical disabilities should hold people back. So I want to thank you guys for, for joining us here. I’m going to bring up the Facebook group. Again, so the people can join there and there will be a, a, uh, a link to the website there.
I think this is good because you can ask questions and say, how do I learn this? And somebody will respond to you. So thank you, uh, both of you and thanks for the work that you do. It’s been wonderful working with both of you guys. So, uh, I, I love what’s being done and thanks for joining us here to tell more people about it.
Thank you, Mike, for mentioning
[00:36:59] Cesare Pagano: this, for inviting us and for putting focus on this important topic. Thanks a
[00:37:05] Andra Stoica: lot.
End of podcast:
365 Days of Astronomy
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The 365 Days of Astronomy Podcast is produced by Planetary Science Institute. Audio post production by me, Richard Drumm, project management by Avivah Yamani, and hosting donated by libsyn.com. This content is released under a creative commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International license. Please share what you love but don’t sell what’s free.
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