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Podcaster:  Shane and Chris

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Title: Deep Sky Observing in Auriga, Gemini and Cancer

Organization:  Actual Astronomy

Link :  https://actualastronomy.podbean.com/

Description: The Actual Astronomy Podcast presents Deep Sky Observing in Auriga, Gemini and Cancer. This episode places a focus on these three well placed late winter / early spring constellations and the best deep sky objects you find. We discuss several clusters, nebula and double stars.

Bio: Shane and Chris are amateur astronomers who enjoy teaching astronomy classes and performing outreach where they help the eyes of the public to telescope eyepieces.

Today’s sponsor: Big thanks to our Patreon supporters this month: David Bowes, Dustin A Ruoff, Brett Duane, Kim Hay, Nik Whitehead, Timo Sievänen, Michael Freedman, Paul Fischer, Rani Bush, Karl Bewley, Joko Danar, Steven Emert, Frank Tippin, Steven Jansen, Barbara Geier, Don Swartwout, James K. Wood, Katrina Ince, Michael Lewinger, Phyllis Simon Foster, Nicolo DePierro, Tim Smith, Frank Frankovic, Steve Nerlich

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Transcript:

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Chris Beckett: Welcome to episode 101 of the actual astronomy podcast this is deep sky observing in a rigger Gemini and cancer.

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Chris Beckett: i’m Chris joining me and shane we’re amateur astronomers who love, looking at the night sky and this podcast is for everyone else.

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Chris Beckett: who likes going out and looking up into the stars and constellations shane you suggested, doing auriga Gemini and cancer, for some of our constellations this month and.

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Chris Beckett: Just so happened, it was funny, you said that because I had just put cancer together to present in my class and I had Oregon and Gemini on deck so I was kind of good to go with this.

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Shane Ludtke: Work so good.

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Chris Beckett: yeah yeah no it’s pretty good but maybe we should first talk about maybe why we chose these and where they are in the sky, so I think previously, we had spoken about, like the winter hexagon a little bit we talked about.

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Chris Beckett: A Ryan and Taurus and and perseus as constellations i’m not sure did we talk about candace major to I feel like we made.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah yeah I think we did canis major canis minor we, like the previous deep sky episodes we’ve done about three constellations but this last one, we did a whole bunch because yeah well, some of them are just small and kind of in that area of the sky so.

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Chris Beckett: yeah so so those constellations as as the seasons progress are moving on to to the West, and though those ones aren’t.

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Chris Beckett: aren’t quite setting yet they’re definitely coming down a little bit in the sky still observable so people can go back and listen to that podcast and you know and they’ll still find it find it useful.

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Chris Beckett: But now a Riga is coming down a little bit when we were doing those episodes or Riga was in the zenith, which is the point directly overhead and it’s actually really hard to observe straight up unless you’re lying on your back on a field somewhere which i’ve done before.

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Chris Beckett: And that that’s something you just maybe don’t want to do as much in the spring, when everything’s melting like it is here, and then.

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Chris Beckett: Gemini is just so east of rigor and it’s getting up towards the zenith but it doesn’t quite get read through the zenith like like a rigorous, at least for us.

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Chris Beckett: And then cancer is is nice and high and getting up to its to its highest point.

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Chris Beckett: And anyway, a good opportunity to do these well, while they’re very high and well placed and then kind of as as people may be listening to them and planning to do some observing here either this week or we’re in the next new moon period which which kind of starts in about.

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Chris Beckett: Two or two and so weeks from now.

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Chris Beckett: there’ll be really well placed at that time.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah yeah.

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Shane Ludtke: And there’s lots to see you know, especially in Riga Gemini you know there’s there’s an awful lot of stuff up there.

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Chris Beckett: yeah so basically define them you just find a Ryan, and then you go straight up and that will end up in a rig and then you can kind of just sort of follow.

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Chris Beckett: The bright stars down to the left and that’s Gemini and then cancers, a little bit fainter but but i’ll let people know.

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Chris Beckett: One of the things that I use in my class anyway and and I get these printed out, I recommend them to to everybody, are the maps from sky maps.com.

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Chris Beckett: I have no affiliation with them whatsoever, but I love what they do, they do great work I think they sell books and stuff on their website, I did I think I bought one of their books, at one point in time to say good transaction, but like I said, other than that have.

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Chris Beckett: No affiliation with my I just really appreciate the charts.

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Chris Beckett: That they put out and what they do, on their charts, which is so useful is they, they marking all the major constellations and as well as most of the minor ones and it’s pretty easy to read.

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Chris Beckett: They really use a lot of real estate on the page so so what you do is you, you would print this off that’s what I recommend anyway make yourself a little red flashlight take it down to the stars.

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Chris Beckett: And what they give you nine tonight or pretty much every night of the of the month.

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Chris Beckett: And they put these out at the start of every month is they tell you where where the moon and planets are and pretty much what they do is they guide you through the month.

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Chris Beckett: Using the moon, to point out different things, and this is absolutely the the perfect way for newcomers to astronomy.

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Chris Beckett: to learn the night sky in the way that they’ve done I just think it’s it’s really excellent the way that they they’ve done this, I don’t know how much you’ve used these shane but I certainly get get my newcomers to astronomy caught up on how to use these charts from Scott maps calm.

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Shane Ludtke: um yeah they are nice charts but, to be perfectly honest, I don’t usually use them.

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Shane Ludtke: I.

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Shane Ludtke: Just did a little on safari.

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yeah.

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Chris Beckett: So.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah and I, and I have like way too many.

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Shane Ludtke: Countless books that I use to So those are.

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Shane Ludtke: solely accompany me in the field.

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Chris Beckett: Maybe from there, what what would be like the next level of chart that you would recommend for people to use.

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Shane Ludtke: Well i’m a like we’ve mentioned many times before i’m a big fan of the sprocket sprocket pocket sky atlas by sky and telescope it’s it’s really good.

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Shane Ludtke: Night watch is a pretty good beginners one.

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Shane Ludtke: What I recommend you know now that some of these publishers are out of business it’s it’s becoming a smaller and smaller kind of atlas field there used to be another one for free, called the tryout list.

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Chris Beckett: which was yeah but.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah I don’t actually think it’s available anymore, I think they shut down the website, but there were three versions of this try atlas.

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Shane Ludtke: and basically like one was like a very basic atlas and then the two subsequent ones just showed fainter and fainter stuff so depending like the first one, I think, was more kind of small telescopes and binoculars.

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Shane Ludtke: The Middle one was for the majority of people, you know that would have you know.

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Shane Ludtke: kind of your general amateur telescope and then the last one was you know for the big aperture people that are probably 20 inches and above.

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Shane Ludtke: And they were really good like they were well designed well plotted easy to read, but like I say I don’t know if you can find them anymore, maybe somebody has the mirrored on cloudy nights for for download i’m not sure, but they were they were pretty good as well.

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Chris Beckett: yeah I did print them all off and have them in a binder downstairs.

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Chris Beckett: they’re all right.

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Shane Ludtke: I have the triangle is B series, so the middle one again that’s applicable to kind of the majority of amateurs I do have that one print it off and.

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Chris Beckett: yeah.

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Shane Ludtke: i’ve used it on occasion it’s it’s wonderful.

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Chris Beckett: But I think I think the the recommendation here, though, is like for for the most basic learning the night sky, I think that.

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Chris Beckett: Like these charts are a good place to get started make read flashlight though just get a cheap light and then just get your red duct tape or red cellophane and make.

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Chris Beckett: At least two or three layers over it, so you dumb it down pretty good so that the ui doesn’t doesn’t get.

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Chris Beckett: impacted by white light because that’s bad and then next room there is to buy a copy of Terrence dickinson’s night watch because it has beautiful charts and.

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Chris Beckett: integrate instruction set on learning to read more more detailed star charts and I think that is absolutely the next step and then from there it’s the pocket atlas for sure.

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Chris Beckett: yeah and, from that point there’s through sky at least 2000 and then I think probably the best field that list now you know, at least in my in my limited opinion is is the oculus press interest delirium.

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Chris Beckett: By.

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Chris Beckett: Storing Ronald Reagan.

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Chris Beckett: Is the I think one of the authors of it so that’s that’s kind of what i’m i’m using in the field but there’s like no perfect atlas and at least.

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Chris Beckett: In my opinion, shane I tried to steer people away from using the software’s under the nighttime sky because the screens are are just too bright, even when dim down all the way and in fact I found like with.

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Chris Beckett: With my tablets and and other devices that when I have tried to use those in the field.

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Chris Beckett: The I just doesn’t work, the same as it does, like in your home, you have to dim them down so much that you’re like trying to press your nose against the screen, in order to read them at least that’s what happened to me anyway.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah i’m not a fan of screens at the telescope if i’m in the city, you know under light polluted urban skies i’m not too concerned about preserving my night vision, because I really don’t achieve it.

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Shane Ludtke: If if i’m.

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Shane Ludtke: If i’m at a dark site I don’t use them, and you know if you’re if you are using a screen at a dark site.

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Shane Ludtke: And you’re around other astronomers just be cognizant that they may not want to see that screen either, so you know, try to shielded from the other observers, because they can be bright and they can ruin night vision.

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Chris Beckett: yeah and I never forget the you know it always seems like there’s through somebody in every club that shows up and they they set up like a an LCD panel or something.

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Chris Beckett: like that, like pointed out, everybody they think it’s going to like look cool or something and then they’re like the least popular person.

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Chris Beckett: i’ve met a few of those people and yeah you just you just gotta be you know, aware that not everybody’s going to be as excited about seeing.

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Chris Beckett: A giant computer screen at night, as as you might be and i’m certainly not not excited to see a computer screen at night, even if it’s just a tablet or a cell phone.

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Shane Ludtke: Less less ladies better red light is better than white, but no light is best.

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Chris Beckett: yeah no light is is best you know what it’s a funny thing is, you know this, this has come into play in in in the training, I do with.

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Chris Beckett: with law enforcement and that is that I have to give a warning now about device usage at night.

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Chris Beckett: As part of the training that I deliver, because just for For this reason alone and that’s that the the screens are too bright and they’re getting brighter, and so we have to make sure that that people are people are aware of that and and the impact it can have.

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Chris Beckett: On your eye at night right so so whether you’re you’re you know, a first responder of some sort or whether you’re an amateur astronomer of some sort yeah using using brightly lit screens at night can definitely impact your vision.

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Chris Beckett: To save least alright so let’s let’s start off with a Riga that cheery tier.

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Chris Beckett: So I know I don’t really think it looks like a Chariot although you know the last it’s been a long time since I was to the Chariot races.

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Chris Beckett: I don’t know about you.

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Shane Ludtke: Well i’ve never, never been to one so i’ll defer to you as the expert.

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Chris Beckett: yeah so i’ve been to the Colosseum in Rome.

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Chris Beckett: And you know there’s no floor there anymore.

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Chris Beckett: So you couldn’t you couldn’t really run a Chariot race there any any longer it’s a little that’s a little bit disappointing, other than that it’s cool well well worth well worth going to to Rome once once people are able to to travel more but.

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Chris Beckett: A Riga is I find it’s the strange almost like a Pentagon type sheep, am I sharing Maybe I should share my screen with you.

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Chris Beckett: Instead of just pretend.

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Chris Beckett: You can see it.

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Chris Beckett: Sure, then you can kind of see where where i’m at you can always just exit out and keep it keep it small but.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah.

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Shane Ludtke: At least I know all sorted krista interrupt but all those i’ll post this to the website as well, so if anybody is interested in what we’re referring to is we’re talking you’ll be able to see it there.

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Chris Beckett: yeah sure and let’s see so is that, like a Pentagon pattern like kind of sorta the main the main shape is.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah I think so.

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Chris Beckett: kind of like a Pentagon.

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Chris Beckett: actually find it quite.

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Chris Beckett: it’s quite it’s it’s quite noted, you know, once you once you learn the night sky a little bit so.

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Chris Beckett: Before you you become aware that there’s different constellations like the main ones, the main patterns big dipper and Ryan and cassiopeia.

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Chris Beckett: Those ones that kind of look like what they sound like or really popular or like the the tea pot of sagittarius or scorpion things like a rainbow which kind of don’t really look much like like anything.

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Chris Beckett: For some reason, I find that pattern of stars was was one of the ones that that I was able to to learn very quickly because.

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Chris Beckett: it’s got these bright stars and you can see them quite well and then it also has quite a few little deep sky objects in here that are that are well worth looking at, but the main star is called capella.

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Chris Beckett: And here from the northern hemisphere and especially where we live, you can see it any clear night of the year, it never goes below the horizon, a.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah yeah yeah it’s a it’s always there.

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Chris Beckett: yeah so that’s that’s good I can get pretty low for for a period of time in the in the evening, but.

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Chris Beckett: To find a regular like right now it’s just past the zenith, but if you are like looking on a on a star chart one of the easy ways to find it is to find the constellation of Taurus the bull.

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Chris Beckett: And there’s the Heidi star cluster which is sort of marked by elderberry which is this bright orange start, but if you if you sort of extend those those horns of of the bull out eventually that the top or the northern most Horn terminates at at beta or reggae.

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Chris Beckett: I don’t know the name of that star but anyway that that’s sort of opposite of of capella and capella is so bright and being so close to the zenith right now, if you look up and just to the West, or just to the right of zenith.

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Chris Beckett: At least from the northern hemisphere, then then you’re going to you’re going to see capella is is pretty high overhead.

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Chris Beckett: My my advancing is not working properly there we go.

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Chris Beckett: So there’s there’s quite a few things to see in or reggae or Riga and I guess maybe we’ll start with these open clusters and i’m not going to go in too much to the history.

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Chris Beckett: Of these, open clusters or or maybe it will a little bit, but there’s these three open clusters em 36 and 37 and 38 and they’re all kind of like equally space like three or four degrees apart, or whatever in the sky, maybe don’t even quite that.

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Chris Beckett: And it as such, and because they’re very bright they’re into like that sort of six or seven magnitude range they’re super easy to see with binoculars So for me anyway shane kind of once I had.

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Chris Beckett: ticked off like the major Messier objects, like the first couple years I was observing you know and it looked at, like the lagoon in summer and m 42 in the winter and those kind of ones.

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Chris Beckett: These ones in a real quickly became favorites because they’re really easy to find the kind of rate sort of in the south central area of the constellation and.

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Chris Beckett: In other quite bright like I can take my binoculars out here in the city and I can see them quite easily I don’t know what your experience has been with them.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah like they’re they’re very easy clusters, to find and it’s kind of a nice little tour to start you know.

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Shane Ludtke: I usually started in 37 and kind of worked my way through them, but you know they’re they’re quite bright and a good size and they look out like if you put anything more than binoculars on them they’re really nice clusters, to observe.

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Chris Beckett: mm hmm there there’s also some pretty interesting deeps like deep sky objects so maybe I should say this first of all is that.

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Chris Beckett: What makes a rageh a great place to go deep sky observing is that the Milky Way pretty much cuts right through the middle of the main constellation.

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Chris Beckett: And it’s sort of surprising that this constellation isn’t more well known, I think it’s just because the star patterns don’t really make.

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Chris Beckett: much sense like when you look up like it doesn’t really look like a Chariot that it doesn’t really look like anything but, once you take your binoculars and scan around there, and you start seeing all these clusters and there’s other stuff we’ll talk about here in a second.

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Chris Beckett: it’s a pretty amazing constellation now one of the other things that I really like to look at and I wrote about this when I when I wrote my very first.

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Chris Beckett: constellation article or feature constellation article for the for the handbook of the observers handbook of the aria see, this is about seven or eight years ago now.

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Chris Beckett: I wrote a boat or Vega and I wrote a boat a set of stars that are near and 38 and they’re just on the.

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Chris Beckett: Western side of the constellation, I think, and those are sort of punctuated this features punctuated by stars 1916 and 14 a reggae and they form this little pattern which is sort of unpopular Lee known as the leaping minnow.

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Chris Beckett: kind of looks like this, this little creature of stars and it’s just like a little beautiful pattern, to see if you ever look at that chain.

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Shane Ludtke: I I think I have, and when I looked at it, I didn’t like I was unaware of the leaping minnow reference.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah and.

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Shane Ludtke: I think, since i’ve heard that I have not gone back so I probably should go back to.

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Shane Ludtke: To see I can identify them.

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Chris Beckett: yeah but look great in your in your 12 by 36 isn’t certain.

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Chris Beckett: And then just sort of above or north of.

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Chris Beckett: Of this, this pattern is a really bright emission nebula called ice four or five, which I think is is otherwise known as the flaming star or the auriga nebula which I think the star had it had escaped from from recalling correctly, I think, or Ryan, at one point in.

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Chris Beckett: Time and that’s kind of you know, a very bright admission zone but there’s also all kinds of other sort of clusters enable in the area there’s.

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Chris Beckett: ngc 1857 just to the east of this region and then rate rate back in that region around the leaping minnows ngc 1893 and I see for 10 and I see for 17 all kinds of other.

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Chris Beckett: index catalog and new general catalog objects are are in there, so just to kind of go back to capella for a second capella is associated with the mythological.

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Chris Beckett: She goes amel thea now mo thea isn’t that the fifth moon of Jupiter as well that was discovered by you, Bernard in like the 1890s from like.

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Shane Ludtke: Well, I don’t know all of that history but yeah believe it is a moon of Jupiter.

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Chris Beckett: yeah and anyway.

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Chris Beckett: capella forms this this little aster ISM which, which is formed alongside a set of stars epsilon or regains zeta or reggae and Edit a reggae.

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Chris Beckett: And that the ladder of these are known as the kids but really I kind of see it as as all three of those stars now.

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Chris Beckett: you’re just hearing me say like these names can seem like an abstraction but, but this is how this, this is the practical part of it is so you go you don’t need to start turning the finest you go and you find a rigger.

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Chris Beckett: And then you know that’s like your main constellation, then you find capella, which is the bright star in that constellation.

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Chris Beckett: And then just sort of above and maybe a little bit to the right at least right now, or maybe it’s below into the right a little bit as it’s coming around and starting to send these evenings.

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Chris Beckett: Is a set of these three stars that forms like this unmistakable triangle, and I say like these are, these are the kids right, this is.

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Chris Beckett: This is the region of the little goats, which are showing on on the back of of the charity or the back of the the Chariot and anyway just just sort of a neat little little pattern there.

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Chris Beckett: So capella is.

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Chris Beckett: Is the brightest star in regards to actually one of the brightest stars in the sky it’s.

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Chris Beckett: it’s the sixth brightest star in the sky and the third brightest and we can see the northern hemisphere after.

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Chris Beckett: Her Riga and.

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Chris Beckett: We have our tourists is a little brighter and Vega in the northern celestial sphere, then of course in the southern celestial sphere, we have things like serious and other things like that.

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Chris Beckett: And it’s it’s really bright and just kind of in comparison there’s there’s some other companions to this star but they’re.

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Shane Ludtke: invisible.

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Chris Beckett: As far as I know I think it’s.

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Chris Beckett: it’s pretty hard hard to see the companions to to capella.

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Chris Beckett: So just to talk a little bit of both the three clusters that are there and it’s sort of funny how they’re numbered.

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Chris Beckett: Because when when i’m looking at them like you say you start in the south and the most suddenly one is m 37.

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Chris Beckett: The most northerly one is m 38 and then m 36 is kind of right in between, maybe a little bit close to him 38 so it’s kind of funny that are really in any sort of sort of order as as per messy just kind of dropping them into his his catalog is as the number of them.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah yeah it does seem kind of suspicious.

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Chris Beckett: yeah it’s it’s a little funny.

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Chris Beckett: Now, a lot of time these these to be credited to two other other observers, but one observer that i’ve become particularly fascinated with observed in the early 1600s so there was this work that was published around I think was in the in the lead 1640s are really.

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Chris Beckett: By buying them server name hoodie arena, who lived on Sicily and he actually drew some charts he drew a lot of charts which really should should give him.

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Chris Beckett: original discovery for a lot of objects, including these these three objects now he didn’t like label them hoodie or no, you know, whatever one, two and three or whatever they would have been in his.

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Chris Beckett: His list he just kind of said okay well there’s bright Milky Way there i’m going to put my telescope there and hold Lo and behold actually see some things there and and then he did some he did some sketching.

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Chris Beckett: i’ve got a chart up here for you shane, as you can clearly see in this chart that’s a bit of a joke it’s kind of difficult to see but but, according to the to the folks that had the original copies it’s a little bit more apparent than it’s in this chart.

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Chris Beckett: All right, so do you have anything to add for a Riga, the charioteer or the Chariot and in the terms of double stars or anything interesting of that nature.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah yeah so of the double stars here a challenge well actually the separation is pretty great but, so I think it’s epsilon a reggae.

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Shane Ludtke: So the primary is magnitude three the companion is magnitude 14 so if there’s some big aperture people out there are you know getting into the larger apres aperture zone, you might be able to pick up the companion, the separation is quite large it’s 29.8 arcseconds.

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Shane Ludtke: So that’s that’s considerable you know that part of it won’t make it difficult it’s really just having.

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Shane Ludtke: The ability to detect magnitude 14.

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Shane Ludtke: What else do we have here there’s Riga 14.

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Shane Ludtke: So for 14 a reggae is the star designation or the group designation.

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Shane Ludtke: Primary is magnitude five secondary is nine and the separation is 9.75 arcseconds so that’s getting a little closer I think that’s similar to the separation of serious ab as well as regal in orion.

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Shane Ludtke: Just to give people some context as to how close these two would be.

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Shane Ludtke: And then the last one here that i’ll mention is 16 reggae.

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Shane Ludtke: Primary magnitude 4.8 secondary is 10.6 so now you’re getting into.

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Shane Ludtke: You know, a pretty big discrepancy in the separation here is tight it’s 4.1 for arcseconds so this would be the most challenging one, I think, to split because it’s close like the two.

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Shane Ludtke: Two stars are quite close and the fact that there’s such a magnitude difference would make that one kind of challenging so anybody that you know, wants to test their optics and their eyes 16 a reggae is it.

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Chris Beckett: Good anything else.

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Shane Ludtke: that’s it for that one.

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Chris Beckett: All right, let’s move on to Gemini the twins.

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Shane Ludtke: Yes, Jerry distinguishable with with the two twins castor and pollux.

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Chris Beckett: yeah and do you have a copy so a really great book for finding constellations and kind of working through them is is he raised the stars I think it’s called the stars any way to see them if i’m recalling correctly, do you have a copy of that book.

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Shane Ludtke: No, no, I don’t.

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Chris Beckett: So it’s it’s kind of a neat book, it seems like it’s a little bit antiquated.

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Chris Beckett: It was written in the 50s I think it was published in 57 or something like that, but it’s it’s remained in publication, I have a copy of kind of.

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Chris Beckett: The copy that I have kind of feels like those workbooks you had maybe, or at least I had in in like my grade primary to grade three grade school education, it has sort of that that kind of real rough kind of paper feel to it and.

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Chris Beckett: Anyway, but, but he does this great job and, of course, he re should sit, as you know, hoo ha Ray is right.

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Shane Ludtke: No, no, no.

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Chris Beckett: So Ha ha re wrote the curious George books.

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Chris Beckett: Famous sort of.

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Chris Beckett: Children yeah.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah okay okay.

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Chris Beckett: So he was he was also an amateur astronomer many people don’t realize that and any anyhow.

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Chris Beckett: Because at the time in the in the mid 20th century.

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Chris Beckett: Like like people were struggling to see the constellations, just as they do today, and he decided that he would kind of try to sort of revamp them to make them a little bit easier to to recognize now.

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Chris Beckett: Now his patterns haven’t been completely absorbed by the astronomical community and and sort of the the lines but but they greatly influenced it so prior to to his involvement.

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Chris Beckett: The patterns were much more esoteric or difficult to understand, unless you are really into into drawing patterns in the sky and then after AJ Ray they become a little bit more easy to digest by by regular people like us, you know.

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Chris Beckett: yeah anyway so he’s the one that actually kind of drew the mo to look more like to.

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Chris Beckett: They kind of looked like to friends or siblings sort of holding hands and they they sort of very closely, these these patterns of stars.

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Chris Beckett: mirror one another, more or less so, if you look up the pattern for Gemini there’s sort of these these two sets each marked by a bright head and then you know they had the sort of this this you know stick pattern it’s pretty unmistakable kind of like once.

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Chris Beckett: it’s one of those constellations where.

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Chris Beckett: If you don’t trace it the stars you’ll never see the pattern, but as soon as you see the pattern that’s all you see when you you look at this area of sky it’s really cool like that.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah and what I love about it is that you know, not every constellation represents, you know what like.

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Shane Ludtke: canis minor you know, is a great.

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Shane Ludtke: is a great example of you know it’s supposed to be a you know small dog.

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Shane Ludtke: Well, I don’t see that in Kansas minor but you know in Gemini and you know a few other constellations it’s just it’s very apparent once you see the star pattern with the lines like you said, like once you see it once you’ll always see it when you look up at the sky.

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Chris Beckett: yeah yeah no exactly.

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Chris Beckett: And also there’s there’s an interesting thing you’ll notice this on i’m I put in the IU slash sky and telescope charts there.

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Chris Beckett: You can see Alpha and beta so the Alpha star is caster and the beta star is pollux.

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Chris Beckett: And if you look closely shane you’ll notice something about those two stars, and that is that caster is actually thinner than politics, so this is one of those instances where the Alpha star is fainter than the beta.

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Shane Ludtke: So why is that it was it just like they didn’t they didn’t quite understand the brightness when else when when caster was designated the Alpha.

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Chris Beckett: No, no it’s because yo hand bear when he was actually applying and and I think and then Ramstein thereafter when they were actually starting to apply these Greek letters.

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Chris Beckett: To the stars and the constellations they had they had rules that they were working with and and the rule other sort of loosely followed.

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Chris Beckett: The dictum was that the brightest star would be the Alpha Star and the second brightest would be beta and so on and so forth, there was actually a rule about where it was in the constellation so.

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Chris Beckett: I think here, because the the brightness is close like they’re both sort of within that same magnitude.

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Chris Beckett: But because it’s further north and like it’s sort of like a positional thing and it comes before it in right Ascension just by a smidge.

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Chris Beckett: Then, because of that sort of subset of rules it caster becomes the officer that that’s my understanding the rules that they were using were.

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Chris Beckett: You know, early you know, but that stock right and it’s it’s kind of like one of those funny things that was never corrected, and this is one of those things that can make learning amateur astronomy.

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Chris Beckett: A little bit of a headache because one of the first rules that people learn as well the Alpha stars, the brightest star so.

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Chris Beckett: they’re looking for which stars castor and pollux well I know couch casters the brightest one, so it must be the one on the bottom, but that’s not true, the brightest star is pollux.

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Chris Beckett: The second brightest stars caster but caster comes first in right Ascension and it’s higher up in explanation I think I think is the rule here we’re playing I might might have that I may be oversimplifying it but it’s something it’s something like that anyway, but it was.

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Shane Ludtke: That is interesting and and really to my to my eye view with them both to be similar magnitudes I wouldn’t say one is brighter than the other i’m also not a variable star observer so i’m not great at you know judging magnitude, but they are very close.

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Chris Beckett: yeah they are very, very close anyway just sort of one of those at bits of esoteric.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah.

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Chris Beckett: that’s interesting yeah.

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Chris Beckett: Now, in Greek mythology and so here on the here on the Left that i’m that i’m showing you shane is it is, it is a set of constellations I think this is from prison astronomer else movies.

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Chris Beckett: I think it’s 964 ad book a fixed stars.

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Chris Beckett: And, and here we see the the twins gem of Gemini and in Greek mythology they were castor and pollux so the easiest way to locate.

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Chris Beckett: The constellations is to find those two brightest stars and you just come eastward from the V of tourists, so we talked about following the northern Horn up.

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Chris Beckett: To a rigger well this one you’re going to follow the southern Horn and then you kind of just dog like down to the southeast a little bit and you’ll get to you could cast her in publix.

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Chris Beckett: Another way apparently i’ve never done this, is to draw a line sort of mentally from the pleiades.

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Chris Beckett: To the brightest stars in Leo which is regulus or angels, depending on how you want to say it, and in doing so, basically halfway in between.

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Chris Beckett: you’re going to run into castor and pollux right but but I actually find because of the winter circle, I think the winter circle really is the is the key.

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Chris Beckett: To learning those bright stars and you sort of start at at the at the stars and kind of work, your way around and learn that winter circle.

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Chris Beckett: Which we’ve talked about in the past and then because castor and pollux are part of that winter circle you’re going to be able to to learn the cynic constellations.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah yeah and I find castor and pollux just where they are in the sky like they’re so dominant is the bright stars there that again once you identify them you’ll always be able to like when you see them for the first time you’ll always be able to identify them.

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Chris Beckett: yeah yeah so let’s just see, I just want to look something up really, really quick here i’m just looking i’ve got three open clusters up here and shane have you have you you’ve observed em 35 before right.

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Shane Ludtke: Yes, yeah and ngc 2158 I don’t know I don’t think i’ve looked at, I see 2157 now but anyway, yes for sure 35.

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Chris Beckett: yeah so i’m looking i’m trying to look up that I put into 148 i’m going to put a 2158 because that is.

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Chris Beckett: Such a tight cluster I was like is that an open cluster is it globular, but I have looked at it quite a few times I couldn’t figure out if it was like a loose glide there nope let’s it looks like it’s kind of loud is.

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Chris Beckett: As an open cluster but yeah I have looked at at all three of these and they they tend to stand out.

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Chris Beckett: A little bit better in the in the telescope than and and as well and larger binoculars than they do like on the image here like this, but for sure i’m 35 you get to by.

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Chris Beckett: coming down the body of casters sort of like that stick figure and then eventually get out to his foot and sort of north of that.

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Chris Beckett: Left foot, I guess, would be the top with the northern Illinois foot is the really bright open cluster m 35 and then kind of as you as you swing your telescope to that in fact from a dark side, you can see them 35 it’s like a little fuzzy spot there.

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Chris Beckett: yep yep and then through your your telescope once you put a little bit of power in there you’re going to see that there’s there’s a bright region just just a smidge to the to the West.

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Chris Beckett: And then just a little bit further than that seemed distances, I see 2157 so we have em 35 ngc 2158 and then I see 2157.

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Chris Beckett: This sort of progressively it’s kind of neat because you have em 35 which was one of the brightest open clusters in the nighttime sky, you can see it with your eye to.

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Chris Beckett: Like a pretty good ngc open cluster which, which you know is is going to appear in a in a good binocular like a.

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Chris Beckett: Like a 70 millimeter binoculars should be able to pick it up pretty easy maybe a smaller binocular from from dark sites and then I see 2157.

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Chris Beckett: Which is an index catalog so you sort of have this this nice representation of different open clusters.

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Chris Beckett: From from sort of different catalogs sort of different catalogs because the ice is just an extension of the of the ngc and all messages are also contained in the ngc but anyhow I didn’t know if you have anything to add about these three clusters.

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Shane Ludtke: No, no you’ve covered it all really well.

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Chris Beckett: i’ve spent a long time, observing like I haven’t observed them recently but i’ve certainly observed these.

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Chris Beckett: Two to my satisfaction.

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Chris Beckett: So I think i’ve observed them like probably 100 times over a few years so.

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Chris Beckett: that’s all yeah yeah I really I really like those so there’s there’s lots of you know, one of the things with with doing these constellations I think it’s neat to touch on different.

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Chris Beckett: Different constellations so I originally thought we should just do one and then, when I do my classes, I try to give people like an overview.

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Chris Beckett: And like an overview of the constellation then a few things that they can see in there and I try not to push the envelope too much.

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Chris Beckett: So kind of this year is as we’re going through them i’m really taken you know i’m really kind of hitting people with the low hanging fruit just to kind of give people an introduction.

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Chris Beckett: And I know that there’s people out there that are more experienced observers master imagers and such but i’m kind of thinking that as we progress through this over the over the coming years, that we can kind of dig dig a little deeper.

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Chris Beckett: You know, as we go forward but James sort of speaking of digging a little deeper attorney there any double stars or anything like that you want to draw people’s attention to in the constellation of Gemini between.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah yeah so actually I just talked about them in our previous episode, but i’ll mention them here, because you know, probably makes more sense to include them in this episode there’s two that will draw attention to the first one is hd 51502.

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Shane Ludtke: let’s see here do I have their components oh gee I don’t think I have the magnitude for their components offhand.

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Shane Ludtke: The separation do I have that, at least on this chart.

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Shane Ludtke: I don’t think that it lists that anyway, this.

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Shane Ludtke: These two here.

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Chris Beckett: sounds like you’re just using you’re observing chart there from last night.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah I mean it’s kind of late on detail i’m just going to quit.

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Chris Beckett: yeah and that’s and that’s fine, but I mean that’s that’s kind of what we’re doing here with our podcast is we’re actually using.

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Chris Beckett: Our materials, like the materials that that we use, either in the classes, that we volunteer to teach and the stuff that we use.

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Chris Beckett: In the field so as doing this, it does help to kind of improve our own our own astronomical knowledge, as well as our own our own sort of endeavors and our own projects that we’re working on under the sky so yeah we’re able to find that information they’re saying.

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Shane Ludtke: No, but i’ll just sort of restate my.

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Chris Beckett: Observation so yeah restate your observations.

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Shane Ludtke: that’s fine yeah hd 51502 is one of the coolest ones like multiple star systems that i’ve seen because it forms a triangle and it’s so distinct like if you.

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Shane Ludtke: were standing.

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Chris Beckett: where’s it located.

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So.

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Shane Ludtke: kind of looking at the pattern years.

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Shane Ludtke: So it’s.

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Shane Ludtke: I guess be South West of El Nino.

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Shane Ludtke: You know I think I think that’s the epsilon star below Athena El Nino that I used to begin my my pen.

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Chris Beckett: Okay, so so eliana looks like it’s gamma.

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Chris Beckett: Gemini, which is the Left foot of the pollux stick figure.

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Shane Ludtke: Yes, yes.

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Chris Beckett: Okay, so that’s where we are folks.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah so this double is located, I guess, on the right leg of the Left figure.

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Chris Beckett: Okay.

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Shane Ludtke: So yeah it’s kind of what do I have the ra yeah So here we go are a on this is 658 and the declination is 1414.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah anyway.

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Shane Ludtke: Wonderful wonderful in the.

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Shane Ludtke: middle yeah wonderful multiple star system, and then the other one is mick Buddha, which is in the other lake between elina and was sought and.

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Shane Ludtke: it’s there’s quite a bit of separation there there’s two stars and one one is certainly brighter than the other, and I felt like there’s a little bit of color in there too.

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Shane Ludtke: Maybe a little bit of Orange in the primary so a pretty easy both are very easy to split and I think I think even modest binoculars would show them both quite well.

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Chris Beckett: Good sounds good.

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Chris Beckett: yeah anything else to add there.

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Shane Ludtke: That is all.

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Chris Beckett: Excellent, so let us move aligned to cancer, the crab so doing these, this is a little bit different So when I when I do my.

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Chris Beckett: constellations for for the handbook I sort of pick one every year not sure what i’m going to do this year in October, when I pick one.

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Chris Beckett: right sort of should say when we pick one because they do them with randall.

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Chris Beckett: We really do a deep dive and the difference between doing these constellations we’re doing them in this podcast which makes it a little bit.

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Chris Beckett: Well, makes it possible for us do them is when randall and I do, though, is we spend like two to three weeks.

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Chris Beckett: Like creating that piece of work, which includes observations and sketches and a lot of historical research and that sort of thing.

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Chris Beckett: And when you and I do these we kind of oh we’re going to do this, all right, and then we just sort of sort of use the notes that I that I have quickly available to me, and you use the notes that you have.

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Chris Beckett: quickly available to you, and then we put it together for folks which is kind of more like how are, how are observing is is going right now in these but but i’ll tell you the constellation cancer or the symbol for cancer as well looks like an upside down Lambda pattern a.

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Shane Ludtke: And you know.

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Chris Beckett: And, and that symbol is actually the pattern of the constellation if you look closely.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah it.

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Shane Ludtke: is true.

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Chris Beckett: it’s kind of neat like that so sometimes you’ll actually see sort of this this I don’t know if i’m.

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Chris Beckett: Making the right analogy here but looks like an upside down Lambda pattern we actually go back to.

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Chris Beckett: To the pattern of of Gemini there, you can see that allina is is a Lambda but I guess maybe it’s the maybe like the adult pan or something like that anyway i’m going to get too far into it, but.

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Chris Beckett: um let’s see so it’s whereas Gemini has the two bright stars in Riga has that one breaks during a lot of other bright stars in the Milky Way going through.

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Chris Beckett: Once once we get into cancer we’re kind of getting off Milky Way so there’s not as much Milky Way star patterns in there, but it’s got these two bright open clusters and 44 and m 67 are in there, so, in fact.

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Chris Beckett: You know that that m 44 cluster is almost like what I think about when I think about cancer, the crab.

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Chris Beckett: So how do you find it well it’s pretty easy you find castor and pollux and they basically point almost rate at em 44 by about 20 degrees I think that’s that’s about the distance there but anyhow m 44 is is just a super bright cluster but the pattern of stars.

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Chris Beckett: Around cancer is kind of thing so from the city you’re going to struggle to see it so you’re going to need your wide angle binoculars.

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Chris Beckett: So where does the crab come from, so any Egyptian records dating back to around 2000 BC or BC he is We say no.

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Chris Beckett: For the common era it, it was described as a scarab crap, which was a secret emblem of immortality often seen on Egypt and tombs and and those kind of those kind of places and in.

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Chris Beckett: sort of really Babylonia the constellation was known in the mall happen is mo l little which is well mall Allah is just the beginning of the mobile APP and then sort of just be a blow a name that can refer to both a crab and snapping turtle.

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Chris Beckett: So I actually have have drawn this it’s a really cool pattern of stars and then punctuated by m 44.

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Chris Beckett: But we have an in fact like so so she and i’m not sure if you can see, I think I think the image on the top right is is one of my sketches.

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Chris Beckett: or something like that I think i’ve combined my sketch, with a with an image, or something to that nature, I could be wrong on that, but I do have quite a few sketches of the whole constellation and the pattern of stars.

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Chris Beckett: But that that cluster and 44 right at the Center of cancer is Latin for the manger.

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Chris Beckett: or.

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Chris Beckett: Also, known as pray us up from seeing the writer praise EPI and ngc 2632 it’s, also known as colander 189 so it has all these different names, otherwise known as just the beehive cluster.

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Chris Beckett: or m 44 recipe, those are the most common ones and it’s super bright and easy to see it’s a beautiful binocular cluster and it’s one of the nearest open clusters, to the solar system and it contains a larger population.

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Chris Beckett: of stars.

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Chris Beckett: You know, then than most other nearby clusters so it’s it’s not only close it also has a lot of stars in and enter the dark skies.

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Chris Beckett: The whole area looks nebulous and it’s been known you know pre history, so when they were first writing up star catalogs like like when when he told me was putting together his Alma jest.

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Chris Beckett: He called it, the nebulous mass in the breast cancer, so it, you know it was definitely known and seen since since prehistoric times and also.

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Chris Beckett: This was the first.

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Chris Beckett: Of the deep sky objects that Galileo pointed his telescope at, and this is what he described in the story messenger which actually went on to inspire all kinds of people to look at the nighttime sky from peer SEC to her to your now.

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Chris Beckett: And you know, led to the discovery of like the.

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Chris Beckett: nebula by others, like the discovery of those those clusters and rigor and all kinds of different things, the nighttime sky so shane quick quiz how many deep sky objects to Galileo discover.

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Shane Ludtke: Oh, I don’t know.

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Shane Ludtke: What 10.

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Shane Ludtke: Years no.

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Chris Beckett: he’s credited with no no deep sky object discoveries.

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Shane Ludtke: Okay okay.

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Chris Beckett: So he he only went looked at the stuff that was already in tony’s elma just.

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Chris Beckett: was kind of known as.

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Chris Beckett: As sort of fuzzy objects and sort of his his big contribution to the deep sky business was that he he discovered that like prayer step this fuzzy thing in cancer was made it have all these stars, which is, which is super important but, but he didn’t discover it no, it was already known.

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Chris Beckett: it’s in cancer it’s got this little grouping of star So if you if you look closer it’s got these four stars read in the Center of it and then kind of in the Center of those four stars, is where am 44.

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Chris Beckett: resides and it’s got this pattern, so this image that i’m showing you on the right is is again and I do love these images this the set of images here we’ve got two patterns of the crab they both look very different, so the one on the left is from.

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Chris Beckett: Book of fixed or else if he was approved an astronomer and probably one of the best naked eye visual astronomers of all time and so.

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Chris Beckett: he’s he’s drawing a crab that would have been something familiar to him in his region and then as such that pattern of four stars, in the middle.

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Chris Beckett: And then you can see he’s drawn this really neat and by neat I mean accurately dot dot dot you see those dots at forums like a stretch to Pentagon pattern.

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yeah yeah.

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Chris Beckett: And so he’s sort of one of the original creators of that data pattern which is.

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Chris Beckett: denoting a nebula on a star chart and you actually can see that to this day, you know if you if you go and buy like a copy of sky and telescope at the store i’ll have like this little pattern of of dotted circles, or whatever, so I think that.

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Chris Beckett: You know that’s sort of an interesting thing in itself but he’s just noting that there’s a nebulous mass and then on the flip side, here we have over in.

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Chris Beckett: Over in cancer, the crab as as pictured in bears your demetrius 16 or three you can actually see that he has these four stars they’re drawn a little bit differently.

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Chris Beckett: But sort of unmistakable, this is the same region that’s that’s being referred to, and in the Center there’s there’s this seat and that see is a faded star right and i’ve talked about these faded stars of berries here and imagery of 16 or three before and now in.

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Chris Beckett: Perhaps for for unknown reasons bear was being a little bit.

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Chris Beckett: Conscious about the fact that maybe he shouldn’t be drawing too much attention to stream things in the nighttime sky and so he.

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Chris Beckett: He was a bit cryptic in his noting of deep sky objects, so he noted, as just this this fuzzy spot, and of course in 16 or three, this is just before telescopes are being pointed at the nighttime sky Galileo not looking at this until about half a dozen year later.

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Shane Ludtke: very interesting.

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Chris Beckett: yeah and there we have em 67, this is the last thing i’m going to i’m going to talk, but i’m getting a great quick succession of of text messages from shane telling me to hurry up and read along then we’re talking too much so.

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Chris Beckett: i’m just going to kind of leave it.

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Chris Beckett: Leave it at this so sort of in the in the bottom part of the constellation we have this this other.

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Chris Beckett: This other cluster called em 67 which which honestly would be a more exciting cluster if m 44 wasn’t so spectacular.

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Chris Beckett: Just a little bit further.

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Chris Beckett: Further to the north, so i’m just going to draw people’s attention to that which is in the the bottom, the southern South Eastern portion of cancer and i’m just going to say that that’s a great object to look at to so shane do we have any double stars to look at in cancer.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah I will reference let’s see here, I think, maybe just one, and this is another decent test of again optics and observation.

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Shane Ludtke: abilities it’s strewth 1177 now the the two stars are actually quite close and magnitude primary 6.7 and secondary 7.4 but the separation is 3.5 so they’re quite close and you’ll likely have to use some magnification to get that split.

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Shane Ludtke: and, probably, you know, seeing will impact this a little bit too if the seeing is poor, these stars that are closer together, become more difficult to separate so strong 1177.

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Chris Beckett: sounds good anything else to add on this are are very brief tour of.

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Chris Beckett: Riga Gemini and cancer, the cramp.

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Shane Ludtke: yeah if anyone is interested in the show notes for this again there’ll be a lot of images that Chris reference throughout this go to actual astronomy.com we’ll have it posted there.

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Chris Beckett: Alright well thanks so much shane.

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Shane Ludtke: Thank you, Chris.

End of podcast:

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