How do you pronounce....
Fermion.
Order of Kilopi
How do you pronounce....
Fermion.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Order of Kilopi
Just like these people.
Order of Kilopi
You say fur-me, I say fair-me, let's call the whole thing off...
Well, not exactly. I've always said (and heard) FUR-me-on and FUR-me-um for the particle and element respectively. However, I am careful to give the name as FAIR-me.
Member
All the physics people I know say fur-me-on. However, Fermi is an Italian name
Established Member
Fermion, of course.Originally Posted by Cougar
Order of Kilopi
Fair-me-on
Moderator
same here. emphasis on first syllable.
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I'd pronounce it (without having looked at others' replies) fer - ME - on.
Don't let your reality checks bounce. ~MeI'll tell you in the next life, when we are both cats.
Established Member
I say fur-me-on , but I also speak french, and deriving from french pronounciation would be fair-me-on.
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Once he became part of a word, poor Fermi suffered something that's a common enough fate under these circumstances: "spelling pronunciation". So English speakers pronounce according to English spelling conventions, rather than using the original Italian long vowel in the first syllable.
In the case of "fermion", that means using the same vowel as occurs in "fern". In British Received Pronunciation, that's an unrounded half-open central vowel. But since I'm a Scot, I move the vowel to the front of my mouth and roll the "r": FERR-mee-on.
Grant Hutchison
Established Member
I got a double whammy on this after an oral presentation in grad school - as I was corrected by the professor, I had screwed up by using the pronoun "he" for an author identified only by initials and last name, as well as completely mangling the last name through not knowing her nationality. Not sure how far it's mangling when one has to know the author's nationality to have a shot at it - how many people would know that Hubert Reeves is French? (I was once slyly informed by a receptionist that the guy I wanted to talk to pronounced his last name Cas-till-o, no English Y sound. That was genuinely helpful!)
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Smart and scottish? Stay away from my mom!
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Ummm ...
OK.
Grant Hutchison
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Was he in a comedy duo, or just a fan?
Fermion seems too easy to say correctly if one thinks of Enrico Fermi. If one prefers to say fur-me-on by making the "e" a "u" sound then would Enrico be "Unreeko" ?
I assume the Latin and spanish would be the same here, where the "e" is an "a" sound, as in "fair", and the "i" would be an "e" sound, which both are typical of most Spanish words I know, and I know several.
I would guess that the rolling of the "r" would be done by the Spanish, as well as any proper Scot.
[Added: There are many examples of how words get spun. Years ago, it was said that Paul Koehring, President of Koehring Mfg., a major US corp., would introduce himself as Paul "Care-ing" with the "Core-ing" company, since the industry was so fixed on the "Core-ing" pronunciation.]
Established Member
She's in love with Sean Connery.
Sorry, it was stupid...
Established Member
Indeed. The man's name was pronounced "FAIR-mee" with accent on the first syllable. It stands to reason that the particle type is prounounced "FAIR-mee-on". Every particle physicist I ever worked with prounounced it that way.
On a related note, the other general type of particle (with interger spin) is called a boson with the first syllable pronounced (unfortunately) like "Bozo." The name in this case comes from the Indian physicist Bose.
"I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind." - William Thompson, 1st Baron Lord Kelvin
"If it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" - Tweedledee
This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. - Wolfgang Pauli
Order of Kilopi
Yes, but this looks more straight forward than the pronunciation of fermion. Bose, apparently, in Hindu-Urdu, has the "o" sound found in "Bozo".
"Lepton" looks tougher using a more Latin appraoch. My limited Latin & Spanish understanding would make the "e" and "a" sound as in "lay". Yet "layp-ton" would be a forced approach. "Lep-ton" is too easy to see as more of a "lept-on". Since it is Greek in origin, the simplist approach seems to work, apparently.
Order of Kilopi
Thanks, Eta C, that's good enough for me, although FUR-me-on appears not to be a horrible faux pas.
There are many other scientific terms and scientist names where I wonder about the 'correct' pronunciation. I just can't think of any at the moment. What about Poincare?
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Order of Kilopi
He had an acute accent: Poincaré.
So a nasalized first vowel, three syllables in total: PWÃ-kah-ray.
Grant Hutchison
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At times it's just hopeless to even guess. With the person named Hubert Reeves, although the first name is French, the last name is clearly imported from English I suppose, so should the last name be pronounced as in French or as in the English? The same thing comes up with a name like Augusto Pinochet, a Chilean of French descent. Should the Pinochet be pronounced a la Spanish, or a la French? Sometimes you just have to ask the person.
As above, so below
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When talking about the medical operation, do they say a "kaisarian section"? Or would they use the English "see-zer"? I suppose there are lines where make decisions about what to keep in original pronunciation and what to change.
As above, so below
Established Member
Ah, but that Bose was Bengali. "Bose" is an anglicisation of a name that is pronounced differently in different parts of India. In Bengali, it's Boshu. But it may also be pronounced Bossu or Bassu in other areas. Whilst I can understand pretty much how to pronounce those, I'm not entirely sure what "Bose" is intended to indicate. But what seems completely anachronistic to me is pronouncing the s as a z, that would never happen in India. So o as in bozo, and s as in snake for me. And Fermion as in the Italian for me, because why should I pronounce it differently from Enrico when he is such a well known person?
But words derived from the names of people are in general a problem. The garden shrub Forsythia we English-speakers do not pronounce exactly as we would pronounce Forsyth, because it somehow comes naturally to voice the th with the extra vowels. Though we do give it its long y. But I wonder what people speaking other languages do? I recently learned to my surprise that magnolia is named for a Frenchman called Magnol, but I can't imagine pronouncing that as in the French, as magnolia has a long estalished English pronunciation, and Magnol is pretty much forgotten. But less familiar garden shrubs such as Weigela, named for an Austrian called Weigel, are pronounced quite variously by English speakers, I hear anything from vye-ghell-a to wee-jeel-a. Then there is the popular houseplant Schlumbergera, which is named for a Frenchman (!) called Schlumberger. Schlumbergers are long established in France, (eg, the pump manufacturers) and they pronounce their name with the final two syllables exactly as in French berger...
Order of Kilopi
And then there's Fuchsia: the English pronunciation of that (FYOO-shya) would be a great disappointment to Leonhard Fuchs, I'm sure. It goes a step beyond spelling pronunciation into "mis-spelling pronunciation".
Going back to the OP, it seems from various posts that there's a prestige pronunciation of "fermion", which preserves the Italian long vowel, and a common pronunciation, which doesn't (the Oxford English Dictionary offers spelling pronunciation only, for instance).
In the UK we seem to be in the process of evolving a similar divide in the pronunciation of the name of the diarrhoea-causing organism C. difficile. Whenever there's an outbreak, TV reporters pronounce the species name as if it were the French word (dee-fee-SEEL), while most doctors persist with Latin (dih-FICK-uh-lay).
Grant Hutchison
Established Member
I always pronounced it firm-e-un, but I can't recall ever hearing it pronounced. Firm-Ion would be just as reasonable.
Reminds me of a couple of American birds that seem to have multiple pronunciations:
Pileated Woodpecker. Pi-lee-ate-ed or Pill-e-ated.
Northern Parula: Puh-rule-lah or Par-uh-la.
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