Member
I believe the E.T.s visited our ancestors and gave them techniques on how to succeed in life. How would you explain them knowing exactly how to make a map of northern Antarctica, africa, and south america, showing the ocean in between them, to extreme precision, and how did they know about the stars. Enlighten me skeptics....
Established Member
Could be, but you're about to have your sense of reality challenged as never before...
Order of Kilopi
What proof do you have?Originally Posted by THETULLSTER
What period are you talking about? Antiquity? I.e. B.C.?
I'm not aware of any antique maps that show those things.
Even the post-Columbus maps are pretty inaccurate.
They looked up at night?
Member
enlighten me
Newbie
Can you provide some evidence of these claims? And anyways, just because some people were able to ( allegedly ) produce these maps, how, logically, do you link that with aliens? How do you know it wasnt the Tooth Fairy who gave it to them? How do you know it wasnt Cuthulu, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster ( may we be touched by His Noodly Appendages ).
Established Member
Well, another thread destined for the ATM or conspiricy section...
Vulcan Administrator
Moved from Q&A to CT.
Note to THETULLSTER: the Q&A section is reserved for mainstream answers to mainstream questions. This is the appropriate location for what you want to discuss.
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.
Order of Kilopi
Ok, THETULLSTER: how about this map, from 1520? Not really what I'd call "extreme precision".
If we're to discuss the maps as one item, what sort of timeframe are you thinking of?
The stars is a separate issue, or non-issue really. They're easier than the land mass maps, I'd say - fully accessible to anyone who wants to lie outdoors on their backs. Probably easier then than now for most, since the advent of extreme light pollution.
Order of Kilopi
Additionally, have a look at this: a map of Australia compared with the very earliest maps done by the Portugese (on the west side) and the Spanish (on the east side), then sort of stitched together.
They look nothing alike.
The pic is about 2/5 of the way down the linked page, here.
ETA: If maps were knowledge passed down by ancient aliens, I imagine from space on their way in they would've been able to see Australia, even though western culture wasn't much aware of it at all. (Maybe it was those same drunk aliens who keep crashing their crafts - they must be paying a huge premium on insurance!)
Order of Kilopi
And they have to wait hundreds of thousands of years for a claims adjuster to come around and asess the damage.
Not to mention the towing charges.
Order of Kilopi
OT (apologies), due to the alien tow service comment: Strange that this alien technology involves tractor beams, and UFO's are mostly reported in rural areas.
Reminds me of that Bill Hicks joke:
Maybe these are not super-intelligent beings, man. Maybe they're like hillbilly aliens. Some intergalactic Joad family or something. "Don't you all want to land in New York, or L.A.?" "Nah, we just had a long trip, we gonna kick back and whittle some."
Established Member
thats not quite how it works here....you enlighten them while they pick at and disect your theory...you are the one presenting the theory...it is up to you to defend the theory and answer questions.
Order of Kilopi
I don't think this should be handled in the usual ATM fashion.
Tullster wants to be educated. He's said so twice.
So we have to start with:
If you believe this, why do you believe this?
Established Member
Please show us these maps of northern Antarctica, africa, and south america showing 'extreme' precision.
They looked up at night.
Established Member
So, in summary...
- WHICH ancestors/era are you talking about? I mean, with the given level of precision, 'they' could be your Auntie.
- WHICH techniques, precisely?
- WHICH maps are those exactly? In fact, it seems YOU have some explaining to do, given the quite rudimentary maps which were available, and which simply reflected the extent of 'their' explorations.
- WHAT knowledge of the stars did these as yet unidentified ancestors have, that was beyond what 'they' could observe?
Enlighten US.
Established Member
Am I right in assuming you are referring to the Piri Reis map? How widely have you read on the issue? Could you justify the claim of "extreme" precision, which most cartographers would take issue with? It's an important early map, yes, and very accurate by the standards of the day, but a lot of unsupported nonsense has been propounded about it. It certainly doesn't show the coast of Antarctica to extreme precision. It probably doesn't show Antarctica at all, just the hypothesized Terra Australis counterweight continent common in maps of the era.
Last edited by Cavorite; 2009-Nov-11 at 12:37 PM.
Member
Man, Stitchin did a ****load of damage =/
Member
Here is a skeptic web site about the alleged Antarctica in the maps of Piri Reis, Finaeus and Buache
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/dicuoghi/P...riReis_eng.htm
Established Member
Are you sure? Maybe the E.T.s just decided to clean out their collective basements and in the process unloaded all their old Dale Carnegie books, tapes and pamphlets on our ancestors.
Order of Kilopi
THETULLSTER, welcome to BAUT.
At least you admit this is your belief but aren't you a skeptic too, or do you believe everything you see, hear and read?
Could not some unknown ancient explorers have produced these maps (or even just parts of them which were later melded) and we've simply yet to establish their proper place in the historical timestream?
Why, necessarily, do ETs need be involved?
Established Member
I read Hapgood's Account in a book (which I cant find right now!) writtien by a friend of his who took over research after Hapgood's death. Hapgood beleive the poles shifted several times in the past. The author of this book looked at religious sites around the world and concluded that The Pyramids were a Lat/Long 0 degree reference for the ancient world, and that there were many religious sites at exact 15 degree longitudinal lines. It also looked at similarities in many cultural myths and legends, similarites in Mayan and Egyptian pyramids, Chinese pyramids and other sites, etc. The conclusion was for an ancient global civilization (Atlantis, but not necessarily aliens) that surveyed the globe in prehistory. Antarctica was it's home continent, which allegedly was at more southerly latitudes way back then.
Hapgood supposedly had a letter from the British Military who compared the Piri Reese map's coastline of Antatica with their radar images of the land beneath the ice, and it allegedly was a very, very accurate portrayal.
He did acknowledge that the Map had several inaccuracies, overlaps, etc, but was focused in on the Antarctic piece. He didn't mention the notations about snakes or heat there, which to me, doesn't support its being antartica. He also didnt mention the inaccuracies about its position. I haven't done a comparison myself of the antarctic coastline and the map, but accounts of its accuracy vary from 'dead on' to 'marginal'.
While its interesting, its hardly direct evidence for alien survey any more than the Nazca lines are. If Atlantis lies beneath the ice in Antartica, I would think we could see evidence of their 'global civilization' from radar images that penetrate the ice, just as we can accurately portray the coastline.
Order of Kilopi
Given the OP's screen name and your typo I'm reminded of how a stitch in time saves nine.
But is Sitchin the first to have hypothesised ancient aliens?
Order of Kilopi
This is exactly why I brought up Australia - because it was only first properly mapped within recent enough times to not have to speculate much of the details.
Senior Member
Actually, what he said was "enlighten me". He already stated that he believes in ancient alien "helpers", so when he says "enlighten me", I understand that to mean "prove me wrong".
We are under no obligation to do anything like that.
Order of Kilopi
The following threads on BAUT are a good start:
The History Channel Program on Ancient Aliens Already extensive discussion there.
Question about 'Ancient Aliens' show in the same section also has some information.
Senior Member
Kinda like an alien life planner, huh?
Having beliefs is nice, and you're certainly entitled to whatever "floats your boat", however if you come to a science board and advocate that this stuff is real, then belief is not sufficient...you need credible evidence for your ideas before you can continue.
Do you have any evidence for your beliefs??
Where did you get the idea that there were maps of "extreme precision", or for that matter, that only alien intervention could explain their existance??How would you explain them knowing exactly how to make a map of northern Antarctica, africa, and south america, showing the ocean in between them, to extreme precision...
How did they know what about the stars??...and how did they know about the stars.
Instead, why don't you "enlighten" us and explain just why you would believe that ancient alien "help" was necessary??Enlighten me skeptics....
Order of Kilopi
Such a defensive posture is not really necessary though, no matter how many times we've seen similar beliefs presented, is it RAF?
I think BigDon's question is rather pertinent; asking THETULLSTER why s/he has these beliefs, and how did s/he come to have them, is a good starting point.
To be "enlightened" is to be instructed; IOW to be educated.
Order of Kilopi
Such a defensive posture is not really necessary though...
In the conspiracy section it's the default. The poster stated a proposition and made a case for it.
To be "enlightened" is to be instructed; IOW to be educated.
Except here it's in the context of soliciting an affirmative rebuttal, so it's a challenge.
Established Member
It's a bit hard for Antarctica to get more southerly than it already is without being squeezed off the bottom of the globe...
That gets repeated a lot in the various ET allegations about the map. But it simply isn't true. The subglacial coastline of Antarctica is hardly a secret known only to the military, and it can be checked against the map. There is simply no correlation there.
Here's another detailed examination of the map complete with lots of overlays comparing it with modern cartography, including using several different projections, as that is something that has been used to try to explain discrepancies in the map.
Order of Kilopi
Did the OP state and make a case for some conspiracy?
No matter, I guess you'd say ATM would as well have such a default.
Yeah, I get that Jay.To be "enlightened" is to be instructed; IOW to be educated.
Except here it's in the context of soliciting an affirmative rebuttal, so it's a challenge.
I just think a less standoffish tactic is more productive.
RAF's statement of the obvious - we're under no obligation to prove him wrong - addresses the OP how?
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