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Thread: Galaxy Question

  1. #1

    Galaxy Question

    Hi, this is my first post and have a few questions that I was hoping some people could help me with. I found this website when I was looking up the opposite view point for that stupid Bart Siegel documentary about the moon landing being fake by a co-worker... I've used it ever since to look up stuff on astronomy that i'm interested in.
    I've been interested in how the solar systems in galaxies interact with each other and have been trying to find some good info on the Milky Way Galaxy and it's solar systems. Really want a visual representation of how the galaxies orbit within the galaxy as well as a scientific explaination.
    I'm also interested in the science and theroies behind the creation and effects that the giant black hole that supposedly sits in the center of the Milky Way has on the galaxy.
    Any info or links to accurate websites on these subjects would be appreciated.

    EDIT: I'm also curious why the planets that humans have been able to find with the wobble method have found giant planets orbiting closely to the Sun. From what I understand terristial/smaller planets form closer to the Sun since they have less time to form before solar winds clear up the dust in a solar system. Been trying to find a good website for beginner Astronomy, but google keeps giving me bad links.
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Hello, S Gilbert!

    I can only toss you a couple of tidbits: Stars and solar systems like ours
    formed in giant molecular clouds similar to the Orion Nebula. A GMC might
    contain enough matter for thousands or tens of thousands of stars, but
    once the first stars begin shining brightly, they start blowing away the
    remaining dust and gas, stopping the formation of additional stars and
    solar systems. So typically a few hundred or a few thousand systems
    will form, and the majority of the material gets blown away. Most of that
    will eventually end up in one new molecular cloud or another, elsewhere
    in the galaxy. It is the molecular clouds and their bright, young stars
    which make the arms of spiral galaxies.

    The dust and gas in a *relatively* small volume inside a GMC gets cold
    enough that it collapses. The particles get closer and closer together as
    the cloud cools, until they get close enough that they begin to collide
    frequently. That part of the cloud collapses into a disk, like the rings of
    Saturn. The orientation of the disk is completely random. Before the
    collapse, motion of the particles is chaotic, and unpredictable. After the
    collapse the particles which fell straight to the center end up in the star,
    while the particles that did not fall to the center end up in the disk, where
    they might form planets. The orbits of the particles are very nearly circular,
    as they are in Saturn's rings, again because of collisions between them.

    The larger the total angular momentum of all the particles in the original
    cloud that were moving in the same direction as the overall rotation of the
    resulting disk, the more spread out the disk will be. That is, the more matter
    ends up in the outer parts of the disk rather than in the inner parts, or in
    the star. Extremely strong magnetic fields originating in the new star tend
    to push the particles in the disk outward, transferring angular momentum
    from the star to the particles in the disk. That results in the star rotating
    relatively slowly, and the planets forming at relatively large distances from
    the central star.

    The orientation of the disk is completely random, because of the chaotic
    motions of vast numbers of particles in the orginal cloud. So the orbits of
    planets in different solar systems have no particular relation to each other.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

    "I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
    were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

    "The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
    point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgilbert
    I've been interested in how the solar systems in galaxies interact with each other and have been trying to find some good info on the Milky Way Galaxy and it's solar systems.
    I'm not totally clear by what you mean by 'interact'. Solar systems don't really interact with one another unless you have a binary (or more) star system with each star having its own set of planets. These systems would interact gravitationally. Star systems that aren't gravitationally bound, don't really interact in any other way (save for absorbing light from other stars or possibly debris from exploding stars (supernovae).

    Quote Originally Posted by sgilbert
    Really want a visual representation of how the galaxies orbit within the galaxy as well as a scientific explaination.
    I assume you mean how star systems orbit in galaxies? The orbits tend to be largely circular about the center. Gravitational disturbances can and do cause orbital perturbations, especially when galaxies collide or sideswipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by sgilbert
    I'm also interested in the science and theroies behind the creation and effects that the giant black hole that supposedly sits in the center of the Milky Way has on the galaxy.
    Any info or links to accurate websites on these subjects would be appreciated.
    Here's a link about supermassive black holes in galaxy centers.

  4. #4
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    Wobble:

    The larger the planet, the bigger the wobbles. The closer together the star
    and planet are, the faster the wobbles. The bigger and faster the wobbles
    are, the easier they are to detect.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

    "I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
    were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

    "The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
    point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=DrWho;1595755]I'm not totally clear by what you mean by 'interact'. Solar systems don't really interact with one another unless you have a binary (or more) star system with each star having its own set of planets. These systems would interact gravitationally. Star systems that aren't gravitationally bound, don't really interact in any other way (save for absorbing light from other stars or possibly debris from exploding stars (supernovae).
    [QUOTE]

    Basically I'm trying to gain a general/basic understanding of galaxies, amount of solar systems, explainations of their orbit, etc. I understand the basics around solar systems and how they work, but have little knowledge about galaxies. I was checking out some explainations of the Nibiru bullcrap about allignments with the Milky Way and how the tilt of our solar system makes it impossible to align with the Milky Way and i'm trying to find something that explains how solar systems orbit in a galaxy. I'm also trying to understand something I learned in basic astronomy about how our solar system plane crosses another solar systems plane every few billion years? Maybe this is a load of crap. I only have have a basic understanding of astronomy from my physics for engineer classes and Astronomy, since I majored in business. So i'm just interested in learning about the basics of Astronomy beyond our solar system. Obviously you can't explain all of this in a forum page so if you have a good link for astronomy beginners it would be appreciated.

    Thanks
    Last edited by pzkpfw; 2009-Oct-12 at 07:22 PM. Reason: Fix quote tag

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    Wobble:

    The larger the planet, the bigger the wobbles. The closer together the star
    and planet are, the faster the wobbles. The bigger and faster the wobbles
    are, the easier they are to detect.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    What I meant was how come these super giant gasses are able to form in a close orbit around foreign star systems, while our gas planets formed in the outer regions. Sorry if my post wasn't clear.

  7. #7
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    Welcome;... Are we sitting cumfortably...then I shall begin.
    Once upon a time a very big amount of material became so untangled by its own gravity force that it began to coalesce. This Galactic cloud slowly drew in much of the surrounding matter as it spiraled into a Galactic disk. Out of the condensing matter were many stars and groups of stars born. Many of the stars have or had solar disks. Some of this matter became second stars or formed planets. Some of the more massive stars engulfed much matter and densities increased to form super massive stellar objects. As stars they are unstable and soon collapse forming massive areas of density. The Black Hole is born. So much matter is available at the core of a Galaxy that many BH can be found. Some super massive and fast rotations have been observed. The central region of this galaxy is obscured by much of the galaxy between us and it. In the in-fa-red spectrum we have learned much of what we could not previously see. Do not use words like 'supposedly' We know its there. We can track objects orbiting it. That motion could not be explained without the Super Massive Black Hole. I feel you need to understand some of the points that might not be known to you. That the content mass of the whole galaxy is what the contents of the Galaxy are rotating about. Gravity of the whole mass. The SM BH at the core area does play an important part of the calculations required. Even in the central area of the Milky Way there is still space.
    You ask why we have found massive stars orbiting very close to the parent star. Verity is normal. Fast rotating small, massive slow and dim there are no rules. However,. The laws of physics do not get broken. Abnormal is to be expected. As for 'Google' It works for me... but maybe for starters you need to have the time to look. Research the subject its all there.
    I found the local public library a great asset for learning to understand astronomical perceptions...
    I should warn you that the above loose description of the evolutionary history of the Galaxy is my own interpretation of the facts as I understand them. To be absolute and precise you need to understand many things that all play a roll in this massive subject... Good Luck and WELCOME.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by astromark View Post
    Welcome;... Are we sitting cumfortably...then I shall begin.
    Once upon a time a very big amount of material became so untangled by its own gravity force that it began to coalesce. This Galactic cloud slowly drew in much of the surrounding matter as it spiraled into a Galactic disk. Out of the condensing matter were many stars and groups of stars born. Many of the stars have or had solar disks. Some of this matter became second stars or formed planets. Some of the more massive stars engulfed much matter and densities increased to form super massive stellar objects. As stars they are unstable and soon collapse forming massive areas of density. The Black Hole is born. So much matter is available at the core of a Galaxy that many BH can be found. Some super massive and fast rotations have been observed. The central region of this galaxy is obscured by much of the galaxy between us and it. In the in-fa-red spectrum we have learned much of what we could not previously see. Do not use words like 'supposedly' We know its there. We can track objects orbiting it. That motion could not be explained without the Super Massive Black Hole. I feel you need to understand some of the points that might not be known to you. That the content mass of the whole galaxy is what the contents of the Galaxy are rotating about. Gravity of the whole mass. The SM BH at the core area does play an important part of the calculations required. Even in the central area of the Milky Way there is still space.
    You ask why we have found massive stars orbiting very close to the parent star. Verity is normal. Fast rotating small, massive slow and dim there are no rules. However,. The laws of physics do not get broken. Abnormal is to be expected. As for 'Google' It works for me... but maybe for starters you need to have the time to look. Research the subject its all there.
    I found the local public library a great asset for learning to understand astronomical perceptions...
    I should warn you that the above loose description of the evolutionary history of the Galaxy is my own interpretation of the facts as I understand them. To be absolute and precise you need to understand many things that all play a roll in this massive subject... Good Luck and WELCOME.
    (Bold mine)
    Do not use words like "verity" or "in-fa-red" either...it makes it hard for people to understand you.

    That the content mass of the whole galaxy is what the contents of the Galaxy are rotating about.
    Waht does this mean??

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sgilbert View Post
    What I meant was how come these super giant gasses are able to
    form in a close orbit around foreign star systems, while our gas planets
    formed in the outer regions.
    The mechanisms aren't entirely certain yet, but the best idea I know
    of to explain the differences is what I said about the distribution of
    matter in the protoplanetary disk: Wherever the bulk of the matter
    ends up is where the largest planets will form. If the plane of the disk
    happens to align with the net angular momentum of the particles in the
    molecular cloud, a large quantity of matter will end up in the outer part
    of the disk. If it doesn't happen to align, more of the matter will end
    up near the center of the disk. And if the star has particularly strong
    magnetic fields, it may push more of the matter into the outer part of
    the disk, while a star that has only a weak field, or a field that only
    becomes strong after the planets have already formed, will not push
    so much matter into the outer part of the disk. Also, the giant planets
    have the ability to throw asteroids into the outermost part of the solar
    system, or completely out of the system. That does two things: It
    creates an Oort Cloud, and it moves the giant planets closer to the
    central star. So the distribution of matter in asteroids is important to
    where the giant planets end up. The distribution of asteroids is
    influenced by the same factors that influence where the planets form.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

    "I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
    were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

    "The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
    point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

  10. #10
    Nah, I understand the infared spectrum's and the x-ray spectrum's that they use to view other areas of the universe, I'm just gonna go check out if there's any good books at my library so I can learn more.

  11. #11
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    Reaching out...

    Quote Originally Posted by mungoid View Post
    (Bold mine)
    Do not use words like "verity" or "in-fa-red" either...it makes it hard for people to understand you.

    " That the content mass of the whole Galaxy is what the contents of the Galaxy are rotating about."

    Waht does this mean??
    I am sorry that you take exception to my imaginative interpretations of spellings in the English language. I did run a spell cheque but it is as stupid as me... [check,] see what I mean.
    Yes, I should spell better. Have you any understanding of dyslexia ?No norr do I.
    'What'? that odd repetitive line was attempting to say... was just what it did say. That the Galaxies contents are all part of the gravitational mass that the component parts are orbiting. Not the SM BH at the centre.
    I also note that the OP 'er has understood me and Jeff and Dr Who all added valued contributions and , we moved forward... Even my relentless miss spelling has not stopped 'sgilbert' going to the library...mark.

    .

  12. #12
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    Be sure to add 'infrared' to the English spell-checker to help look up appropriate items

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared

    And its 'center' & 'misspelling' as well, but the points were made nonetheless, LOL. Great you were able to help the OP (seriously) I'll Czech back later ( j / k)

    Alex

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexInOklahoma View Post
    And its 'center' &....
    Alex
    I hope this was a joke, too. If not, you might check the spelling of 'centre' and the contraction of 'it is'.

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