Hawaii's anti-B.O. law

[Paracelsus]

Get a load of this one: http://www.starbulletin.com/news/200..._proposal.html

A proposal that raised a stink nationwide over an apparent attempt to criminalize body odor on public buses has been shelved by the City Council.
Honolulu gained nationwide attention, criticism and ridicule over...a new code of conduct for users of the city's planned rail mass transit system. The code also would have applied to existing transit systems, including TheBus.

Civil rights groups and others criticized a provision that would have made it a crime -- punishable by a fine up to $500, six months in jail or both -- to have offensive body odor.

Ok, why was this stink bomb ever allowed out of the City Council chamber in the first place?? Did anybody on the Council ever stop to consider whether the proposed law was even enforceable? How stinky would one have to be to get charged with this penalty?? Which stenches would be exempt? Would people who stink of cigarette smoke be pulled off the rail along with the people who have plain old B.O? If the law were enacted and justly enforced, they would have been! What about a parent whose kid's diaper could use a change? Would they be thrown in jail? What about people who are clean but are a bit stinky because it is a hot, humid day? There are tons of those people in DC during the summer tourist season. What about a person who has a legitimate medical condition that causes him or her to have problems controlling body odor (TMAU, bromhidrosis, liver or kidney failure)? Would all of these people be tossed into jail? Even if no criminal penalties were imposed and the riders were just tossed off the bus/rail, would this be just? Would the law be realistically enforceable?

Just imagine the flood of trivial ** cases resulting from this law that would have clogged up the court system!

You know, considering the number of very stinky people of all races, all classes, and all states of hygiene walking around, it would be far wiser to adopt a more tolerant attitude towards body odor, particularly when one considers the fact that one may have abhorrent B.O. without realizing it (read about the phenomenon of olfactory habituation to understand why).

[Fazor]

You hit on a key concept of law; it has to be enforceable, and ideally, in a way that can be done with reasonable consistency.

[Paracelsus]

Exactly. What are they going to use, a sniff-o-meter??

[Larry Jacks]

I don't know. Back in 1991, my wife and I ended up sitting next to a guy who reeked on the flight back from Hawaii. All we could do was aim the air vents to try and keep his funk away from us. It wasn't an enjoyable experience.

Hawaii is humid and fairly warm. People sweat. Some of them apparently don't bathe very often and stink. Yeah, they'll need some way to enforce it law but maybe they wrote it for a reason.

[Gillianren]

As it happens, I have a condition that pops up occasionally (my doctor couldn't work out what it was or why it was intermittent) that causes unpleasant body odor, and I even had someone from the transit company inform me that there had been complaints. Which is very high on the list of embarrassing things that have happened to me, for the curious. Because we don't know what the problem is, we don't know how to fix it. Such a law would put me on par with those horrible people around here who think that patchouli is a substitute for bathing--and add tobacco, and often marijuana, on top of that. And if it didn't, what would you do--explain it to everyone on the bus? That's also hugely embarrassing.

[Buttercup]

I'm also curious as to how "offense" (at its mildest) will be determined.

[korjik]

If they arent pretty they get tossed?

Oh wait....

If they arent pretty and they smell bad they get tossed.

Tho I expect that the first is a more probable result if that kind of law were passed.

p.s. woo hoo, 3000 posts!!

[kleindoofy]

Just imagine if, on the day after Labor Day, you didn't have time to shower in the morning, had a bad hair day, and wore white.

The long arm of the law would hunt you down.

Let's just hope that long arm is properly washed.

[mike alexander]

Hawaii B.O.

Starring Jack Lord.

"Wash 'im, Danno!"

[LaurelHS]

What if a person is wearing excessive cologne or perfume? It seems to me that a bus driver might occasionally have grounds to order someone off the bus for that. Some people have fragrance allergies and they might have an allergic reaction if someone wearing too much perfume sat next to them; if this happens, is it a legitimate reason for the driver to ask someone to get off the bus? (Note: I'm not saying they should press criminal charges against someone who's wearing excessive cologne or perfume, I think that would be an overreaction).

[sarongsong]

...why was this stink bomb ever allowed out of the City Council chamber in the first place?...

I would guess it's a matter of pride and self-respect. Overall, I found Hawaiians among the "cleanest" citizens of states I've visited. I'd bet the "stinkie-poos" are mostly comprised of non-locals or the newly-arrived who haven't yet acclimated to the Hawaiian style of living in the tropics; cool, calm and collected.

[Frog march]

Tagline:A strange smell. A one-armed man. An obsessed detective. The chase begins---The Fumegative

[Ronald Brak]

It's not uncommon in some places for service to be refused to people who are stinky, but jail? Yikes! And surely it would be cheaper to install free public showers than to keep people in prision?

[sarongsong]

There's plenty of free showers at the beaches---free laundries might help?
The OP title is misleading; there is no such "law".

[Paracelsus]

There's plenty of free showers at the beaches---free laundries might help?
The OP title is misleading; there is no such "law".

The body of the OP explains that it was a proposed law, not a law.

I agree with korjik. Should such a law be passed, who would be next on the 'hit-list': fat people, for taking up too much room? Ugly people, for offending the eyes of their fellow passengers? Let's have a little tolerance, people!

Gillianren, I'm sorry to hear about your intermittent problems with this issue. I can imagine that such a thing would be hugely embarrassing, not to mention difficult to pin down and treat properly. Have you gone to an endocrine specialist for testing?

[Buttercup]

It's not uncommon in some places for service to be refused to people who are stinky, but jail? Yikes! And surely it would be cheaper to install free public showers than to keep people in prision?

That's what I was wondering!

Would make a whole lot more sense.

[Gillianren]

Gillianren, I'm sorry to hear about your intermittent problems with this issue. I can imagine that such a thing would be hugely embarrassing, not to mention difficult to pin down and treat properly. Have you gone to an endocrine specialist for testing?

The issue there is, in part, finding one who'll take my insurance. State medical coupons aren't exactly the most desired form of payment. One of the few advantages to not having to leave the house is that I generally get to stay home when it hits. It was very bad when I had a job.

[GoneToPlaid]

Back in grade school a classmate of mine had a medical condition which caused him to develop really bad body odor in just minutes. I can't remember what the name of the medical condition is. Yeah, us other classmates were rather cruel and called him "stinky". I regret this to this day since as a kid I didn't understand that he couldn't help it.

[Littlesnabes]

passing a law towards how much you stink is like passing a law about how tall you are in a theater . it is a)unenforceable and b) discriminatory

[sarongsong]

The body of the OP explains that it was a proposed law, not a law...

Exactly my point.

[Paracelsus]

The issue there is, in part, finding one who'll take my insurance. State medical coupons aren't exactly the most desired form of payment. One of the few advantages to not having to leave the house is that I generally get to stay home when it hits. It was very bad when I had a job.

That's a problem. People tend to be very judgmental about this issue out of ignorance, I suppose.

Ugh, hubby is being a brat. More posts later....

[mugaliens]

On rare occasion I'll get a case of the stinkies, meaning the kind of B.O. you occasionally come across from others and wonder "what is out of whack with his bodily functions?"

It's almost always something I ate that's seriously different than among the wide variety of food I normally eat. I do a lot of camping, and going without a shower for a day or three doesn't reproduce that sort of order, so I'd like to echo Paracelcus' comment about it possibly being endocrinal.

[Paracelsus]

Back in grade school a classmate of mine had a medical condition which caused him to develop really bad body odor in just minutes. I can't remember what the name of the medical condition is. Yeah, us other classmates were rather cruel and called him "stinky". I regret this to this day since as a kid I didn't understand that he couldn't help it.

Most adults don't understand that either. Unfortunately, based on the number of extant 'anti-B.O. laws' out there, I don't think the ADA recognizes discrimination based on odor as discrimination. In fact, I don't think they even recognize weight-bias or 'looks-ism' either. The ADA also apparently allows discrimination based on past history of treatment for mental illness, as the military is known for taking prejudicial action against people who go on anti-depressants. Anti-discrimination law has a long way to go in this country.

[Paracelsus]

A lot of women, me included, get a case of the stinkies right around the time of menstruation. This is one of the reasons I hate having to go to social functions around that time, as I feel very self-conscious and have to severely limit the kinds of foods I eat in order to keep things under control. I was actually having my period on my wedding day, ironically enough. The ceremony was on a beach in St. Thomas, and I had to wear a full-on big gown with crinolines in 85+ heat on one of my stinkiest days of the month. Fortunately for everyone involved, the ceremony and reception were outdoors!

[GoneToPlaid]

A lot of women, me included, get a case of the stinkies right around the time of menstruation. This is one of the reasons I hate having to go to social functions around that time, as I feel very self-conscious and have to severely limit the kinds of foods I eat in order to keep things under control. I was actually having my period on my wedding day, ironically enough. The ceremony was on a beach in St. Thomas, and I had to wear a full-on big gown with crinolines in 85+ heat on one of my stinkiest days of the month. Fortunately for everyone involved, the ceremony and reception were outdoors!

I have found that a lot of women that I dated over the years have a much better sense of smell compared to men. One woman I dated could tell by smell if somebody in a car in front of us was smoking a cigarette. Needless to say, she was very self conscious about the smell of her period to the point that she too didn't want to go out in public around that time of the month. I simply told her that I couldn't smell anything and that my sense of smell was average, and that if she really felt self conscious then she should quickly douche before we headed into town. (My reasoning was that a quick douche should be good for at least a few hours or so, and I impressed this reasoning on her by telling her that I honestly couldn't smell anything as soon as she got done.) What convinced her that I was right was that I told her to pay attention to whether or not other people stood back from her while talking to her. She noticed that they didn't, so she finally figured out that they weren't smelling anything offensive.

[Gillianren]

Most adults don't understand that either. Unfortunately, based on the number of extant 'anti-B.O. laws' out there, I don't think the ADA recognizes discrimination based on odor as discrimination. In fact, I don't think they even recognize weight-bias or 'looks-ism' either. The ADA also apparently allows discrimination based on past history of treatment for mental illness, as the military is known for taking prejudicial action against people who go on anti-depressants. Anti-discrimination law has a long way to go in this country.

My last therapist wouldn't believe me when I told him that no diagnosed mentally ill person would become President any time soon, probably within my lifetime. The concept just did not occur to him. But for a therapist, he was awfully dense about mental illness. It was infuriating. Especially because he thought I knew even less than he!

[closetgeek]

It's easy to sit and judge a stranger, though. How many times have you been stuck next to someone with really offensive B.O. or really bad breath and thought to yourself, "Don't you smell yourself?" I remember one time I went to the movies with a friend. I felt really bad for her because I knew she wasn't a dirty person and just as I was about to politely confront her that her deodorant must have quit on her, I realized it was me. I was the offensive stink in the room. I went into the bathroom and did the best I could but the smell was in my shirt by this point. All I could do was apologize to anyone who suffered as a result of my presence.
Seriously though, laws like this only encourage that sense of self-entitlement that people suffer from. You are out in public, exposed to a wide range of people and not all of them are going to smell exactly the way you want them to...get over it!

[mugaliens]

I have found that a lot of women that I dated over the years have a much better sense of smell compared to men. One woman I dated could tell by smell if somebody in a car in front of us was smoking a cigarette.

Since I can smell that, too, I must be a woman.

Needless to say, she was very self conscious about the smell of her period...

Well, perhaps I'm not...

[NosePicker]

As it happens, I have a condition that pops up occasionally (my doctor couldn't work out what it was or why it was intermittent) that causes unpleasant body odor, and I even had someone from the transit company inform me that there had been complaints. Which is very high on the list of embarrassing things that have happened to me, for the curious. Because we don't know what the problem is, we don't know how to fix it. Such a law would put me on par with those horrible people around here who think that patchouli is a substitute for bathing--and add tobacco, and often marijuana, on top of that. And if it didn't, what would you do--explain it to everyone on the bus? That's also hugely embarrassing.

I too have a medical condition called GERD. The extremely painful heartburn is treatable with prescription tablets. Unfortunately, the truly excessive passing of loud 'toxic' gas clouds isn't touched. It has made me something of a hermit. Yet, there are still times that I do have to go out. Were I forced to take the bus, I may be accused of carrying a weapon of mass olfactory destruction.

[NosePicker]

Hawaii B.O.

Starring Jack Lord.

"Wash 'im, Danno!"

"She has braids in her armpits!"