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Thread: Shenzhou V.......thousand

  1. #1
    It seems based on this article <a href=http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200204/03/eng20020403_93399.shtml>here</a> that the chinese plan to use "taikonauts" by the fifth mission. Does anyone happen to know when this will be? I remember reading that they planned to goto the moon by 2010. I was just wondering how close these 2 events are going to happen.

    Totally unrelated to this - Will the atlantis shuttle launch be televised tomorrow?

  2. #2
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    On 2002-04-03 22:50, SeekingKnowledge wrote:
    I remember reading that they planned to goto the moon by 2010. I was just wondering how close these 2 events are going to happen.
    That "going to the moon" is related to an unmanned probe.

  3. #3
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    The manned lunar missions are supposed to be around 2025, together with a manned lunar base.

  4. #4
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    Shenzhou pics...

    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...1/shenzhou.htm

    China National Space Administration
    http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/

    hmm....their logo looks familiar. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  5. #5
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    I saw an article a few days ago that stated that China was going to have its first manned mission later this year (September, I think), but I can't find it now.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  6. #6
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    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rue
    Shenzhou pics...

    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...1/shenzhou.htm

    China National Space Administration
    http://www.cnsa.gov.cn/

    hmm....their logo looks familiar. &lt;IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
    That is bizarre! Kinda makes you wonder....

  8. #8
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    Cool. I wonder if they'll bring back any pieces of the Apollo landers as mementos.

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    If they pull that, there will be a fight on their hands. Screwy a priority as it may seem, but I'll bet a yuan to a dollar that any desecration of an Apollo site will be met with serious consequences. Americans tend to be touchy about landmark sites, especially our own. [-X It would be like someone heading to the Arizona, Kursk, Hood, or Bismarck sites and rummaging for artifacts. No lives were lost in Apollo, but those sites are still held sacred by some people.

  10. #10
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    As long as it's not the A 11 site, I bet the U.S. wouldn't have a problem with the Chinese bringing back some agreed-upon artifact from an Apollo landing site. I think everyone would understand why A 11 should be treated differently.

    Given that relations between China and the U.S. are pretty good (relatively speaking) it seems that a joint scientific undertaking to bring something of Apollo back from the moon would work for both countries. It might also (although not likely) convince some of the HBs that the Apollo missions were real.

  11. #11
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    Retrieiving equipment from one of the sites would be a priority for U.S. engineers. The Apollo 11 site naturally has historical significance, but an ALSEP component from somewhere, or material cut from the ascent stage remainders or LRVs would be gold in the hands of U.S. engineers. We don't know a whole lot about how materials might degrade in the lunar environment. We'd want to get things like aluminum, glass, mylar, titanium, and various plastics to study the long-term exposure effects. This will directly support engineering to build permanent lunar bases or long-duration orbital facilities.

  12. #12
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    When will Shenzhou launch?

    Possibly not October but still before the end of the year.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  13. #13

    dont touch our sacred sites

    [-X

    Normally I just read and enjoy the debate on these pages, but doodler really tee`d me off. Why did the AMERICAN government subsidise Howard Hughes`s GLOMAR CHALLENGER? Oh! That`s right to solemnise the sacred site of the sunken russian submarine. Hood, Bismark and Titanic were all rummaged over by an American for historical purposes. Why should`nt a chinese astronaut return the favour for Apollo.

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    Re: dont touch our sacred sites

    Quote Originally Posted by johnb
    [-X

    Normally I just read and enjoy the debate on these pages, but doodler really tee`d me off. Why did the AMERICAN government subsidise Howard Hughes`s GLOMAR CHALLENGER? Oh! That`s right to solemnise the sacred site of the sunken russian submarine. Hood, Bismark and Titanic were all rummaged over by an American for historical purposes. Why should`nt a chinese astronaut return the favour for Apollo.

    The Glomar Challenger was the result of two unstoppable forces acting in concert. One, the obsessive ego of Howard Hughes, and the American intelligence community seeing a potential goldmine in the recovery of a sunken Soviet sub. I hadn't thought of that one, but being reminded of it, it wasn't the most shining moment in US history and is still incredibly controversial in its execution because it was a blatant disregard for Russian sovreignty. In case my point has been missed, it ain't something I look at and get that rah rah mushy patriotic feeling about. If anything its all the more justification for each nation leaving everyone else's machinery alone. Too easy for intentions to be misused or misinterpreted. As for official historical documentation of the other sites, it should be pointed out that those sites were visited with A) permission of the nation in question and B) with the utmost respect for the sites themselves. You don't just sail your boat to the HMS Hood and have a dive without permission under normal circumstances. This policy of respecting the nature of those sites includes correcting a huge miscalculation made when the Titanic was recovered, that was corrected at the rediscovery of the Bismarck. The exact coordinates of the Bismarck site are classified. No one goes there without the expressed permission of the German government to AVOID the kind of exploitation that occurs at other sites. I have no faith whatsoever that the same courtesies would be paid by the Chinese, none at all.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doodler
    If they pull that, there will be a fight on their hands. Screwy a priority as it may seem, but I'll bet a yuan to a dollar that any desecration of an Apollo site will be met with serious consequences. Americans tend to be touchy about landmark sites, especially our own. [-X It would be like someone heading to the Arizona, Kursk, Hood, or Bismarck sites and rummaging for artifacts. No lives were lost in Apollo, but those sites are still held sacred by some people.
    I have to disagree, as Apollo 1 was a loss of life even though it took place on the ground. I agree with everything else... I'm sure if we sent someone to Tianammen square to remove statues, they would get a healthier appreciation of our feelings on the Apollo landing sites. (Don't they have a burial vault for their unknown soldier and Chairman Mao too???)
    Of course, the Chinese going to Luna would stop the Lunar Consipracy thread and a lot of bad websites (like Nasascam).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimTKirk
    . . . Of course, the Chinese going to Luna would stop the Lunar Consipracy thread and a lot of bad websites (like Nasascam).
    Somehow I doubt we'll ever see the end of the Lunar Conspiracy, although it may become less popular.
    How's this for a potential HB reply?
    Well, of course the Chinese can go to the moon now. But that's just because they have better computers and equipment than NASA had back then. NASA never went to the moon and they've paid money to the Chinese to perpetuate the hoax.
    Of course, I'd love to be wrong. If only one former believer said that the evidence from the Chinese landings convinced him, it would make my day.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JayUtah
    Retrieiving equipment from one of the sites would be a priority for U.S. engineers. The Apollo 11 site naturally has historical significance, but an ALSEP component from somewhere, or material cut from the ascent stage remainders or LRVs would be gold in the hands of U.S. engineers. We don't know a whole lot about how materials might degrade in the lunar environment. We'd want to get things like aluminum, glass, mylar, titanium, and various plastics to study the long-term exposure effects. This will directly support engineering to build permanent lunar bases or long-duration orbital facilities.
    This reminded me of something I had been thinking about - why don't we retreive Vanguard 1? It's been orbiting the Earth for over 40 years and would be pure gold for any engineers, and a good museum exhibit.

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    OK... I may be a little optimistic. It'd be nice though, wouldn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimTKirk
    OK... I may be a little optimistic. It'd be nice though, wouldn't it?
    It would be nice, just highly improbable. The pure science behind a recovery effort is certainly understandable, but to use that to defend a naive outlook on the realities of the world is seriously misguided.

  20. #20
    doodler... I was too strong in my last post. It would have been better summed up as ' one mans archeology is another mans sacred site'. I think we should go back, yes for the scientific and engineering benefits, but mainly just because we can. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo and the Shuttle had enormous spin offs technologically. But they also, especially the first three, came with a huge psychological gain. To paraphrase Mr. J Cagney. 'Ma! Lookat me Ma! Top o the world Ma!'

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJim
    This reminded me of something I had been thinking about - why don't we retreive Vanguard 1? It's been orbiting the Earth for over 40 years and would be pure gold for any engineers, and a good museum exhibit.
    I guess, something from the moon would have a higher value, because you can calculate its exposure conditions pretty well. Something that is orbiting will tumble, thus making calculations pretty difficult.
    Gene Cernan thinks he left a Hasselblad with the objectiv pointing upwards on the LRV seat, so, if every someone comes again, he will have a good object to investigate about radiation and micrometeorites.
    From the ALSJ:
    [Cernan - "I can sit here and, just as sure as I'm alive at this moment, I can remember placing that camera (on the Rover seat). And I thought it was such a crime to leave a Hasselblad. But we were going to point it with the lens up so that, someday when someone goes back there, they can see the degradation of the lens from the cosmic radiation. And I guess I didn't do it. What can I tell you."]

    [Gene wonders if the memory of putting the camera between the seats is actually derived from training. However, the possibility remains that he put the 500 mm camera on the seat.]

  22. #22
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    Oh I know, personally I'd love to see a full bore return to the moon before we try Mars. Heck, I'd hold off on a manned Mars mission till we can get our unmanned missions there with something a touch higher than 1:3 success rate. I just think it would be a lot more appropriate for the US to return to Apollo as opposed to the Chinese because I don't believe they have a shred of respect for the US or anything about it. If they get there, fabulous, take lots of pics, sans fiducials, and publish them everywhere, just stay the heck off the hardware.

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