Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: What's it take to create a conspiracy?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    9,227

    What's it take to create a conspiracy?

    Being interested in the psychology behind conspiracy theorising, I've just spent this lunchtime coming up with a conspiracy that resembles the moon hoax. Note how I use established historical fact to shore up my ignorant speculations and deliberate lies.

    Any feedback welcome.

    ***

    The voyages of Christopher Columbus never happened. It is possible that Columbus himself, a notorious egotist, was responsible for the fraud, following an attempted expedition to an elusive (and in fact non-existent) island off the west coast of Gomera. However, the most likely explanation is that the Atlantic crossings were fabricated by the Spanish, mainly after the fact, in order to prove their supremacy over their Portugese rivals.

    Here’s the proof.

    It is well known that Columbus, or Colon as he was known at the time, was an experienced sailor, so there is no reason to doubt that he approached the Spanish monarchs King Ferdinand and Queen Isabela asking for ships, probably for trading purposes. However, in the late 15th century, it was generally believed that the world was flat, a belief that was backed up by Holy Scripture. Is it really conceivable that Columbus would have asked “their Catholic Majesties” to assist him in promoting such a heresy, at a time when the country was at war with the Moors and the Spanish Inquisition was at the height of its activities?

    Within a week of setting sail from the Spanish port of Palos, the caravel Pinta lost the use of its rudder. This was possibly the result of sabotage by the ship’s owner, Cristobal Quintero, who was no doubt keen to avoid falling foul of the Inquisition. Whatever, it left the little “fleet” of three ships reduced to two. Faced with the choice of abandoning the voyage or going on with just two ships, Columbus went for an incredible third option – to sail on to the Canary Islands and repair the Pinta’s rudder there. So, on a group of tiny and largely barren islands, occupied by hostile guanches and a few million songbirds, Columbus’ crew were able to find the spares, the manpower and the expertise to repair a state-of-the-art vessel.

    Columbus badly underestimated the size of the Earth – by several thousand miles, in fact. Such a fundamental mistake, and yet he was capable of navigating an unknown ocean? If you doubt his navigational incompetence, consider that he was unable to get a true bearing from the ship’s compass, and that he consistently misreported the distance travelled each day. (According to his own log – among many other examples - on Tuesday, 11September 1492, “That night they went about twenty leagues but he reckoned only sixteen.”)

    On 25th September, Martin Pinzon returned a chart showing the position of islands in the vicinity. This, supposedly in the middle of an unexplored ocean! Where’s he supposed to have obtained this so-called chart? Did Leif Eiriksson bequeath it to him? Or St Brendan, perhaps?

    It is reported that the three caravels passed through the Sargasso sea. This is perfectly possible with ocean-going liners, but wooden ships? They would have been fouled by the weed, and unable to advance or retreat. Unless the three ships were equipped with razor-sharp steel keels at least four feet deep, but history does not record this.

    Consider that Columbus expected to arrive in Cathay (China) or Chipangu (Japan) where the caravels would have been moored safely in harbour. The ship’s gangplanks were designed for such an eventuality. Of course, Columbus had not allowed for the fact that the world is much bigger than he had supposed, and there was a whole other continent between him and his intended destination. When he first made landfall at the island of Guanahani, the natives were unable to provide him with a convenient harbour, so he was compelled to step onto the beach. The only problem – the gangplank was not long enough to reach the beach!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    838
    Bravo, I did not know which parts were compltly fabricated and which parts were history that was unknown to me. I have top admit my ignorance and confess that I do not know much about Columbus's voyage.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    338
    So, was syphilis returned to Europe by unmanned missions? =D> I've always been suspicious of this "Columbus discovered America" claim. I'd say its up to those who make this ludicrous claim -- probably concocted by a giant Spanish-Italian conspiricy -- to provide proof!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    2,307
    Hmmmm and since in the "supposed" third voyage he "discovered" part of the territory that is now known as Venezuela, it means I live in a fantasy world! I knew it all along

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    11,516
    "...a few million songbirds..."

    That's great. The Canaries are not named after birds, they are named after dogs. I learned this while studying the islands before a meeting I attended was held on La Palma.

  6. #6
    "Columbus discovered America"
    Well, technically, he didn't...

    First there were those who crossed from Russia over the Bering Strait and became the first settlers in the Americas, but that was a long time ago, so you may discount it. But there were also Vikings who arrived at Newfoundland and started a settlement (before Columbis, by the way). The Vikings also sailed as far South as modern New York City, thus discovering the future USA. They may even have gone further South, but New York is a far South as I can recall. They only stayed a few decades before abandoning Newfoundland, though.

    And (finally) came Columbis... but a little late it would seem...

    :wink:

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    4,263
    America is such a general word.. did he discover all of the Americas? North America? South America? It is my (limited) understanding that he landed on some of the islands in the Carribean. To me, that seems analgalous to claiming that I discovered Asia because I landed on Midway Island...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    2,307
    Christopher Columbus made 4 trips to the American Continent

    1st Trip: He landed on an island he named San Salvador, part of the Bahamas nowadays

    2nd Trip: Landed on the island of Dominica in the caribbean nowadays an independent state which is part of the British Commonwealth

    3rd Trip: Landed on Venezuela and explored the island of Trinidad.

    4th Trip: Landed on Mexico, Honduras, Panama and Jamaica

    So he mostly traveled through the Caribbean but was the first European to set foot on the continent (on his third trip) since the Vikings. IIRC he wasn't aware he had reach the continent on his third trip at the time

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    350
    While we're discussing the Vikings and a certain Italian with Spanish sponsorship, let's not forget the evidence that the Chinese, and possibly even ancient Egyptian civilizations, may have visited Central and South America.

    One of the current prevailing theories about the whole Greek "Atlantis" myth, is that it's an older story, relegated by Egyptian traders regarding a certain floodplain in northern South America, that may have hosted a civilization at one point.

    Oh, and by civilization, I mean an ancient, low-tech one. Not some dudes communicating with aliens, possessing advanced tech, etc.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    338
    > Well, technically, he didn't...

    It took almost 4 hours before somebody offered this "correction" (I knew it was coming). What's wrong with you guys -- asleep at the keyboard?

  11. #11
    Hey, I've had homework to do!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,732

    Re: What's it take to create a conspiracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Beardsley
    Being interested in the psychology behind conspiracy theorising, I've just spent this lunchtime coming up with a conspiracy that resembles the moon hoax. Note how I use established historical fact to shore up my ignorant speculations and deliberate lies.

    Any feedback welcome.
    Okay, but why? That seems to be the only part you're missing from your conspiracy. What do The Powers That Be have to gain?

    For the moon hoax, we know that we wanted to beat the Russians and win the cold war, or we wanted to do something with aliens and the general public can't handle it.

    Why did they lie about Columbus' accomplishments? What was the true goal of his mission since the Catholics wouldn't have wanted to prove the Earth was round?

    Other than that, I have to say: =D>

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    137

    Re: What's it take to create a conspiracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by SciFi Chick
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Beardsley
    Being interested in the psychology behind conspiracy theorising, I've just spent this lunchtime coming up with a conspiracy that resembles the moon hoax. Note how I use established historical fact to shore up my ignorant speculations and deliberate lies.

    Any feedback welcome.
    Okay, but why? That seems to be the only part you're missing from your conspiracy. What do The Powers That Be have to gain?

    For the moon hoax, we know that we wanted to beat the Russians and win the cold war, or we wanted to do something with aliens and the general public can't handle it.

    Why did they lie about Columbus' accomplishments? What was the true goal of his mission since the Catholics wouldn't have wanted to prove the Earth was round?

    Other than that, I have to say: =D>
    There is an older conspiration theorie wich gives Columbus a good reason for his journey. It says that Colombus were actually an agent paid by the portugese who wanted to lead the spaniards away from the true way to India and China by going south around Africa. There is also a rumor that the portugese landed in Brazil in the early 1480's and held it as a secret.
    If Columbus had been actually a portugeese spy he could have known that and could have intended to do a journey to America and fake it as a journey to China...
    It were India and China were the Europeans hoped to gain riches, not some obscure islands in the midst of nowhere in the western atlantic.

    By the way the Idea that the church or better the church approved scholars in colombus days believed the earth to be flat is a myth set into the world by an American romancier of the 19's century. The historical fact is that Columbus enemies in the spanish court knew from Arabian writings that the circumference of the earth was about 40000 km. Together with their vague ideas about the distance to China eastwards over land (the way Marco Polo travelled) they estimated that to go to China westwards you would have to travel between about 20000 km over unknown seas - an impossible task with the ships technology of these times.
    It was Columbus who didn't realize that arabian miles are longer than spanish miles and thus claimed earths circumference had to be only 30000 km. On the other hand he overestimated the distance eastwards by far and came to the conclusion that he had to travel only about 4000 km - difficult but worth to try.
    Now take your world chart an judge who was right.

    So, back to the conspiracy. Is it really only an odd coincidence that Columbus silly idea about the distance from Spain to China is actually the distance from Spain to Brazil? Or did he knew where he was going?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    2,307
    Actually he did, he had a copy of the Piri Reis Map.... (just to add some more to the "Columbus Conspirancy")

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,732
    Check these out:

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...12641?v=glance

    http://www.trinicenter.com/Gilkes/03091998.htm

    http://www.theinsider.org/news/columbus_report.asp

    I think the next question we should ask is whether or not it's possible to come up with a subject that doesn't already have a conspiracy associated with it. ](*,) :-k

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 39
    Last Post: 2008-Feb-26, 08:43 AM
  2. Create Your Own Conspiracy :)
    By falcospav in forum Against the Mainstream
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 2003-Aug-29, 12:17 AM
  3. Nancy and Hazelwood - The Conspiracy against the Conspiracy
    By Ygor in forum Against the Mainstream
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2003-Apr-28, 08:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •