Would you be cryogenically frozen?

[farmerjumperdon]

And I could say that you're mentally unstable for accepting death. Immediately assuming someone's mentally unstable because they happen to disagree with you, your grandparents, or whatever, is insulting and rather Ad Hominem.

I like to think that I'm not mentally unstable, and I support the idea of immortality. However, considering that you seem to have made up your judgement ("If they disagree with me, they're mentally unstable"), there's no way I can say anything without you merely pinning that label onto me.

Also, there's the fact that you can't really argue with them. So, because you can't discuss their viewpoints, you immediately assume the worst (that they're mentally unstable or egotistical to the extreme). I wouldn't want someone doing that to me -- assuming the worst of my motivations and/or mental processes merely because someone isn't able to discuss with me my motivations.

I think you can guess why that would annoy me.

Nothing ad hominen about it. It's natures way, all living things die. An inability to accept that is either lack of wisdom or instability of some sorts. The world doesn't hold static for anyone anywhere. To want to be immortal is like desiring to insert yourself into a childs daydream of foreverness. I can understand wanting to live a full life, to a ripe old age; but to wish for immortality is so far out there as to be ludicrous. Kind of like when a little kid stratches out their arms as far as they can go and says something is soooooooo big. They think they have just described the biggest size something can be, but have really no idea of the context. Same with someone who wishes for immortality. They have no idea what they are wishing. Also like poor people who claim to know what they would do if they won the lottery. Talking out of their heads because they have no idea what it is like to have money, and therefore no real idea what they are talking about. To claim to want immortality is to want something you can't know about. Like dividing by zero. Not definable. Not attacking you, just making a perfectly objective observation about people desiring something that doesn't exist and a guess at why they do so.

[SolusLupus]

An inability to accept that is either lack of wisdom or instability of some sorts.

If I have such a lack of wisdom or instability, why are you even bothering to reply to me? It's obvious what you think already. That IS an Ad Hominem attack -- immediately replying to an idea or argument by proclaiming that anyone with that idea has to be insane to have it in the first place.

I, sir, consider myself wise, and of sound mind. Yet I disagree with you, especially on your assumption that anyone who desires immortality is not of sound mind. You use a few anecdotes of, "My grandparents were perfectly okay with it when they died!" in order to justify an attack on other's mindsets, over a broad category ("People that go into cryogenics"), without ever having heard their individual arguments or ideas. That is Ad Hominem.

Also, my grandfather died of cancer. You want to know how he died? In extreme pain and suffering. Yet the lung cancer he got from smoking was just as natural as aging or dying in the first place.

It's natures way, all living things die.

Also, it's natural for almost all animals to not want to die -- survival is the main drive behind evolution and... well... living.

Death is natural, yes. Technically, so is disease. So are certain kinds of poisons. So is aging. So is cancer. So is starving to death when you don't have enough nutrition. So is suffering when your leg breaks. "Natural" does not always mean "desirable".

To claim to want immortality is to want something you can't know about. Like dividing by zero. Not definable.

It's true that it's almost impossible to be truly immortal. You'd have to live to the end of forever to truly say, "I have lived forever". However, I believe in living for as long as quantitively possible, prefereably in a state where that life is A) Productive, and B) Not suffering. That's what I mean when I say I wouldn't mind being immortal.

Talking out of their heads because they have no idea what it is like to have money, and therefore no real idea what they are talking about. To claim to want immortality is to want something you can't know about.

A lot of people go in to get a college education to pursue a career that they're interested in spending a lot of their life in. Some of them end up regretting their career choice. Some don't. However, the mAJORITY of people that wish to go into this career don't know every nook and cranny of that career -- they run into things, obstacles and benefits -- that they were not expecting when they were first getting involved in this career. Also, you might end up having to work with people you never expected to work with; you might have to deal with things that are annoying; you might end up with a boss that's a racist; you might have to deal with a sudden layoff because of a drop in economy. Life is about the unknown, the undefinable. You can define a job or a career - just like you can define immortality -- but that doesn't mean you can expect or know all about it without fully immersing yourself into it.

Applied to Immortality, there are benefits and downfalls that come with immortality -- some of it can be predicted, some of it can't be until you actually go through it yourself. A lot of it also has to do with chance, just like with any career. You might end up unhappy or you might end up having fun throughout periods.

Why does this suddenly mean that desiring to be immortal is unsound of mind? So if you go into college with a job in mind, you're also unsound of mind?

[Van Rijn]

Nothing ad hominen about it.

No, you just say anyone who would consider possibly extending their life is mentally unstable.

It's natures way, all living things die. An inability to accept that is either lack of wisdom or instability of some sorts.

All things die, eventually. But we've been interfering with "nature's way" for a long time. Should we give up antibiotics, vaccines, modern medicine? Should we give up sanitation? Should we give up agriculture - after all, it is all very "unnatural."

The world doesn't hold static for anyone anywhere. To want to be immortal is like desiring to insert yourself into a childs daydream of foreverness. I can understand wanting to live a full life, to a ripe old age; but to wish for immortality is so far out there as to be ludicrous.

I don't want to be immortal. I don't think it is possible. I only want to live to a ripe old age - 400 to 500 years would be good enough for me. There are still a lot of things I want to do, and 70-80 years or so just aren't enough.
What I don't understand is people who want to end cancer (which is primarily a disease of aging) but seem to think there is something wrong with directly attempting to slow aging. Why should we accept bodies that slowly fall apart when we probably can do something about it?

Not attacking you, just making a perfectly objective observation about people desiring something that doesn't exist and a guess at why they do so.

"Objective"? This is all about your beliefs. They are completely unobjective.

[SolusLupus]

I think Van Rijn said all that I tried to say in a much shorter and easily understood way. Thanks.

[farmerjumperdon]

OK, maybe a little strong on my words. What I was trying to get at is probably the motivation for not wanting to die. (Strictly opinion, but I do not think animals other than humans are capable of contemplating it, and therefore do not desire to die, . . . or live). Not wanting to ever die seems to me to be a totallly irrational desire. It does not fit in well with reality. What would happen to our world if nobody ever died? So OK, mental instability was a bit strong. I'll downgrade it to lack of perfect reason. I still do not see it as an attack. If I said you personally are crazy, nuts, or certifiably mad - that would be different. My saying it is an irrational desire, and that people who have irrational desires are (insert a word you're OK with here), is no different than criticizing any other irrational fear or desire; such as people who shriek and jump on the table at the sight of a 1 ounce mouse, or people who desire to keep slaves in the 21st century, or people afraid of the number 13, or Presidents who want to make policy based on astrology, etc. Everybody has their thing (again, insert acceptable word here - I'd use adjustment issue(s)), nobody I know is always capable of perfectly rationale thought. I just call it what it is when it surfaces as irrational thoughts or behavior. Thinking it would be OK for people to live forever seems to me to be grounded in some sort of irrational fear or desire; examples of which we all have and display from time to time. I do not think you are any more tilted than the average human. (That is meant tongue in cheek).

[SolusLupus]

I'll downgrade it to lack of perfect reason.

So you have perfect reason and I don't, then.

I still do not see it as an attack. If I said you personally are crazy, nuts, or certifiably mad - that would be different.

So it's okay to say that EVERYONE that desires immortality is crazy, nuts, or certifiably mad, as long as you don't single me out specifically? So what if I said all Jews had a stupid belief and are idiotic for it, but then said, "Why do you see that as an attack?" to a rabbi? That's not logical.

My saying it is an irrational desire, and that people who have irrational desires are (insert a word you're OK with here), is no different than criticizing any other irrational fear or desire; such as people who shriek and jump on the table at the sight of a 1 ounce mouse, or people who desire to keep slaves in the 21st century, or people afraid of the number 13, or Presidents who want to make policy based on astrology, etc. Everybody has their thing (again, insert acceptable word here - I'd use adjustment issue(s)), nobody I know is always capable of perfectly rationale thought.

Not all people that wish for immortality are merely afraid of death. Some of them see a use for it.

Also, who says it's necessarily irrational? If I had cancer, I'd be afraid -- is that irrational? Fear of death is necessary for survival. It's how we lived for this long.

. Everybody has their thing (again, insert acceptable word here - I'd use adjustment issue(s)), nobody I know is always capable of perfectly rationale thought.

How do you know I'm the one with rational thought, and you're just the insane man making his ramblings? Or do you just have faith?

I'm secure in my own decisions, thank you very much.

Thinking it would be OK for people to live forever seems to me to be grounded in some sort of irrational fear or desire; examples of which we all have and display from time to time. I do not think you are any more tilted than the average human. (That is meant tongue in cheek).

My personal opinion is that immortality would be better suited when we have the resources and space to support it. But I'm an arrogant person, myself -- I like to think of myself as very rational, able to make good judgements, and able to change my judgements when I discover they are bad.

I do not think that fear of death is irrational at all, but then, I'm not for immortality merely to escape death. I'm in for it for how it can be used -- as a tool. A tool to be able to use wisdom, experience, knowledge, and time to your advantage, instead of only having a few decades to do anything in this world.

Humans are already living longer and longer. It won't be long (maybe a few centuries) before humans can be graced with the ability to live a few centuries thanks to futuristic medicine.

I won't be alive to see it, but I would hardly call the desire to live longer, eventually getting to the scope of many millions of years, irrational.

Not only that, but I DO consider it irrational to judge a large category of people just based on them wanting immortality. You have made many assumptions and judgements, Jumperdon.

[Van Rijn]

farmer, what do you think of all the members of major religions that believe they will effectively live forever? Are they all irrational?

[farmerjumperdon]

farmer, what do you think of all the members of major religions that believe they will effectively live forever? Are they all irrational?

If they are adults that literally think they will live forever, absolutely. But remember, I've downgraded from judging the people (sorry I did that) to judging the behavior. So yes, if they think they will literally live forever, they are most definitely exhibiting irrational behavior.

If it is a euphemism for the fact that the physical matter of their body will be recycled and may someday end up part of another living creature, that's perfectly rational.

If it is that they will be spiritually reincarnated, or go to heaven or something like that; that's a matter of faith and outside the realm of being judged as rational or irrational.

In response to Lone Wolf:

Yes
No, I've changed it to exhibiting irrational behavior
See above
Me
No
Based on norms
No, none, never

and you are wwelcome.

[SolusLupus]

I don't know which questions you're answering with which answers, farmerjumperdon, so I'll just roll my eyes and leave the discussion. I've made my viewpoint clear, and continue on being the irrational little being you claim I am.

[LurchGS]

Absolutely not. Turnover is the natural order of things. When your turn is up, be a good citizen and exit gracefully. I think most people come to accept it by the time their physical being is about to expire. None of my grandparents were fighting death at the end - they went with dignity and were fine that they had lived their life and it was time to move on. I'd guess all of the currently frozen people were mentally unstable (or at least egotistical to an extreme) to some degree and could not come to terms with the natural end to their life.

I say bunkum! This is true, only so long as natural selection rules the roost. This is patently not the case with the human animal (any more). Humans now allow what in any other animal would be called a cull to breed. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or unkind - but ... well, there it is.

I agree with Lonewulf. I wanna live forever - not because I'm overly afraid of dying (though I admit there are moments when I'm a little nervous). There is so much I want to see, so much I want to do... so many girls to get to know (don't tell my wife). At the very least, I want to live long enough that my capacity for long term memory is exceeded.

Ok, I mixed some flip answers in there, but in general, it's true.

On the down side, I don't think cryogenics is the way. From what I hear, quick freezing doesn't rupture the cells - the hazard is actually more on the thawing side.

------------------------

drat, I can't think of anything clever to say here

[farmerjumperdon]

I don't know which questions you're answering with which answers, farmerjumperdon, so I'll just roll my eyes and leave the discussion. I've made my viewpoint clear, and continue on being the irrational little being you claim I am.

That was my intention. I don't want to point-counterpoint argue with you on a topic that is largely personal opinion. I respect your right to hold yours. Rattling off my answers without picking apart your sentences and quoting them was a way of saying "OK, we're done then."

[Wingless2Fly]

Hello.. I've searched and searched throughout the internet in hopes that I might find others who are as interested in living in the distant future as I am. Hence, I found only this site....

I'm actually surprised to see how many responded negatively towards the first comment... as it was only a gesture requesting insight if you'd WANT to be frozen and awoken later, not if it is ACTUALLY POSSIBLE...

If as of THIS MOMENT, it were possible, I, myself would wait 6 more years until my 30th year, and be cryogenically frozen.. nothing interests me more than the future, and being as though I have no belief in religion, nor the malcontent of current human indiscretion.... (go figure, a chick born on Christmas day who's one of the biggest antichrists on the planet...)

I am more than eager to see what is to become of the human race... will its be like Demolition Man? Galactica? Time Machine? Planet of the Apes? Or just the simple Apocalyptic verse from the book of man?.....

If there's a Cryogenic list, PLEASE, point me in the right direction!!!!

Megz

[mickal555]

Here's a list of:
"Cryogenentic Myths"
http://www.alcor.org/cryomyths.html

So... what's the go?

I do not want to die- ever.

And welcome to BAUT Wingless2Fly!

[Halcyon Dayz]

Well, that's who we are.
If we see something shiny, we try to pick it apart.

Sometimes we can't get the pieces back together, though.

[HenrikOlsen]

I've read too much Niven to believe in that solution.
The chance you're reanimated piece by piece as you are put inside someone else is too high.

Apart from that, if I haven't lived through the years until then, there's no chance I could be a successful member of the society as it looks at the time.
See Spider Robinson's short stort about the timetraveller for that. The first one, about a ten year trip to the future.

[Halcyon Dayz]

Or the 1999 South Park episode about the iceman from 1996.

[Doodler]

I'm not about to let myself become a popsicle while the technology is this raw. There's some interesting research being done into hibernation techniques involving mammals that I might be interested in, but for me, I'll fight against the coming darkness with whatever technology comes down the line.

I'm less concerned about cheating death, than I am putting it off for a good long while.

[Roy Batty]

The original poll left out the option of being bitten by Lestat
Btw I voted for more life...

[eugenek]

Not me. When it's my time I'm bound for Carousel.

[Roy Batty]

Not me. When it's my time I'm bound for Carousel.

Carousel! Carousel!