Order of Kilopi
Soviet science fiction tended towards much more cerebral lines, the first Solaris is a good example, as it Tarkovski's Stalker.Originally Posted by novaderrik
They tended to have an awareness of political systems and people's place within them that was almost completely absent in American SF of the time, as well as a whimsical sense of humor that lead to such nice questions as "Right, who told the computer that sheep has five legs?"
They where almost entirely devoid of evil aliens.
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Reductionist and proud of it.
Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. Benjamin Franklin
Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat tails. Clarence Darrow
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. Mark Twain
Honored Member
I remember reading a short essay many years ago (maybe the Strugatskys?) speculating that the lack of evil aliens in Soviet SF was the ideological notion that all advanced civilizations would of course all be communist, and therefore would get along just fine with each other.
Established Member
The alien, uh, thing, that inhabited Solaris wasn't unequivocally evil but it certainly wasn't friendly either.
Order of Kilopi
No, the humans where the evil alien invaders in that one
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Reductionist and proud of it.
Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. Benjamin Franklin
Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat tails. Clarence Darrow
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. Mark Twain
Order of Kilopi
That depends on how you define "science fiction": is it whiz-bang technology or can it be fiction that is merely set in a future based on technology more advanced than ours. After all, deep space vessels can be science fiction while being completely realistic. If we have a worldship in deep space there are all sorts of regular drama that can take place, many of which might merely be "soap opera in a different setting" but might also be more like real science fiction concepts with technology and utopic and dystopic features.
Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.
Established Member
Just like the way the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China got along?
Nick
Member
You can't just go ruining a perfectly good ideology with your concepts of "reality".
These things just work, you know
Established Member
[One country] the [other county] are not "true" communists!
Order of Kilopi
Much of the best Eastern Block science fiction is said to contain veiled parodies of the communist ideology. Westerners typically miss this; we lack the cultural clues.
Some even claim that the element of parody was the sole value of science fiction in the Eastern Block, although I disagree. In the west, curiously, skepticism of capitalism in science fiction seems to have been much rarer, exceptions such as Pohl and Kornbluth's The Space Merchants notwithstanding. And of course western science fiction writers did not need to hide their criticism behind allegories and images, since the western intelligentsia was always more insensitive to literature than their eastern counterparts.
Last edited by Disinfo Agent; 2009-Apr-04 at 07:27 PM.
Order of Kilopi
And "Star Trek."
Order of Kilopi
Oh, I dunno about that. Mudd and the Ferengi are traders, not capitalists. Or did I miss that law of acquisition that referred to Credit Default Swaps? :-/And "Star Trek."
Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.
Member
They're also considered to be villains, or at the very least comedy relief, in the series, compared to the More Enlightened (TM) principles of Our Heroes.
Order of Kilopi
I gather that the Star Trek writers simply didn't understand the role of money.And "Star Trek."
Order of Kilopi
I dunno, how many squillions did they make?
Order of Kilopi
Yeah, but they probably inhale and exhale squillions of molecules of air, but that doesn't mean they understand the role of oxygen, nitrogen and so on.
Established Member
No, it is that Gene Roddenberry didn't like the idea of money or capitalism. That's why the Next Gen hemorrhaged writers for the first few years. No money, no disagreements between Star Fleet personnel, ect.. If you ever get a chance to listen to stories of the writers from the first few seasons, they're real interesting.
David.
Established Member
The first two Terminator films are excellent. I'm not a fan of dumb action movies; James Cameron's are either smart, funny, or both. He's got a new one coming out in Dec., and it's SF. Boo-ya!
There's Timeline. Unless you like realistic medieval combat in a terrible movie, it may not be for you.
Order of Kilopi
I throw this out there for the 2.6 seconds of science concern (not content) - The 6th Day. Cloning issues, disease, technological acceptance in general and the fun idea of "re-pet". I think they tried very hard to have some serious issues, but they stopped filming or writing at the important bits.
Established Member
The plot summary sounds absurd. Cloning does not produce instant adults, and clones do not share the original's memories.
Member
In fairness they did have technology to copy and imprint neurological "mind states" in clones.
It wasn't an instant adult from a tube thing.
Established Member
Well there is always "Marooned" or Robert Duvall in "Coutdown" which I think was the last fictional movie about a lunar landing.
Both of those had a nice realistic feel to it.
Marooned is still a guilty pleasure
Established Member
Yeah, as DH points out, they do address these points in the story.
(Particularly since, well, what use is a clone if it's a baby. No commercial viability there. The premise of the film is that they did develop the technology for the purposes of replacing ones adult body and memories. That's commercially viable.)
Order of Kilopi
Gene Roddenberry may not have liked capitalism (I just learned that in this thread), but on the other Star Trek never criticised capitalism openly. Comic relief doesn't really count.And "Star Trek."
Looking for a science fiction film critical of the capitalist system, the closest I come up with is the Alien series. At least, as far as mainstream films are concerned.
On the other hand, some of the more recent installments of Star Trek are filled with personal conflict, and they kind of suck.
Honored Member
I always thought Roddenberry was asking what comes after capitalism. I mean, that's a reasonable speculation.
As far as satires of capitalism, nothing is meaner, darker or better than Kornbluth's Gladiator-at-Law.
Established Member
Roddenberry changed his mind about the Star Trek economy somewhere along the line. In the first TV series, there are references to when and how much the officers and other Federation characters get paid and how much things cost. By the time they were making movie #4, the same characters had apparently grown up without money.
Order of Kilopi
Notice that in Niven's "Known Space" universe clothes are almost universally optional -- on Earth and in Belt, anyway. Obviously, in that timeline humanity has outgrown nudity hangups.
Bad Post-Doc
I hope they're well-heated places that offer really good UV protection.
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Gillian
"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
Order of Kilopi
They do not LACK clothes -- they wear them when needed. Which, BTW, all nudists do -- a good definition of "nudist" is "someone who always knows exactly why he is wearing something." Also, in KS universe melanin boosters are not only ubiquitous, but is some places are legally required, like motorcycle helmets today. Exposing oneself to UV without protection is actually illegal.
Order of Kilopi
I hope they've got good plastic surgeons and/or exercise and nutrition programs!
Order of Kilopi
I missed this post earlier- apologies for that. Silent Running really has very unrealistic science. The Valley Forge has artificial gravity, which implies that the Earth has relatively high technology at this time; but the people who launched this ark ship decided to place it in orbit around Saturn, where the sunlight is 1/81 x that at Earth. Eventually the Bruce Dern character realises the mistake.
We are asked to believe that this 21st century civilisation , which can generate artificial gravity and feed a world, (and has allegedly conquered poverty, apparently) but has no need of plant life, would make such a mistake: and only an egregious nutjob like the Dern character could realise this fact. This aspect of the plot, like many others, is absurd.
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