Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Immunity to relatavistic effects?

  1. #1

    Immunity to relatavistic effects?

    Most people, I think, are familiar with some of the staples of Relativity and Cee--in particular, theoretical objects traveling at speeds close to Cee increasing in apparent mass and slowing of local time, et cetera.
    What I'm curious about is what makes photons, 'gravitons,' and other light-speed and near-light-speed particles/waves immune to these effects. Why is it that a photon in a vacuum doesn't have infinite mass, and why don't cosmic rays passing through our solar system constantly yank bodies wildly free of their orbits and gravitationally shred our planet as they pass through?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    887
    Let's only look at one thing: time.

    If you are travelling at c, you cannot experience time. So photons do not age. For any particle that does not experience time, mass is not an issue. You need time to measure mass and these guys just don't have any time or mass.

    Also, figure a cosmic ray hits the earth as hard as a mosquito hits a windshield. There is not enough power for it to destroy large amounts of matter. Since they come in at all angles, we don't need to worry about the earth's orbit either.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadin View Post
    What I'm curious about is what makes photons, 'gravitons,' and other light-speed and near-light-speed particles/waves immune to these effects.
    I think essentially it's because photons do not have mass.
    As above, so below

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I think essentially it's because photons do not have mass.
    Agreed. As I like to put it: "Mass is what enables you to sit and wait."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    11,220
    Nothing is immune to relativistic effects. The behavior of photons
    and neutrinos are described just as accurately by general relativity
    as massive particles are. The differences you note are not
    differences that have anything to do with relativity, but simply
    differences between different kinds of matter. Matter which does
    not have mass cannot have an increase in its relativistic mass.
    But it can have an increase in its relativistic energy and momentum.
    And that is what happens. And massive particles can be viewed
    the same way. Instead of saying that their relative mass changes
    when they are in relative motion, it is preferred to say that their
    relative energy and momentum change. That works the same way
    for all particles.

    But there is a fundamental difference between massive particles and
    massless particles, which results in massive particles requiring force
    to speed up or slow down, while massless particles always move at
    the same, constant, universal speed, and force cannot be applied
    to them.

    Cosmic rays are energetic massive particles, but they don't have
    anything like the quantity of energy you seem to think they have.
    When a cosmic ray hits Earth's atmosphere, the particle is destroyed,
    creating other particles travelling in the same direction, some of
    which can reach the ground. Some can travel through hundreds of
    feet of rock, not because they have tremendously high energy, but
    because they have so little ability to interact with other matter.
    I think the very highest-energy cosmic rays detected had energies
    comparable to a baseball thrown at a few tens of miles per hour.
    That is an enormous amount of energy to pack into a single nucleus,
    but it isn't going rip the Earth or even a small asteroid apart. What
    could happen when such a cosmic ray particle hits a small asteroid
    is that a few atoms of the asteroid will be knocked loose, flying off
    at much lower speed in approximately the direction the cosmic ray
    was headed, or, in a larger asteroid, the asteroid will be given a very
    tiny push, and will be heated locally by a small amount. It might be
    enough to cause a visible flash, like a vey tiny flashbulb going off.

    Most cosmic rays have much less energy than that.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    http://www.FreeMars.org/jeff/

    "I find astronomy very interesting, but I wouldn't if I thought we
    were just going to sit here and look." -- "Van Rijn"

    "The other planets? Well, they just happen to be there, but the
    point of rockets is to explore them!" -- Kai Yeves

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,139
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    ... And massive particles can be viewed
    the same way. Instead of saying that their relative mass changes
    when they are in relative motion, it is preferred to say that their
    relative energy and momentum change. That works the same way
    for all particles. ...

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    I like this, you know, I simply like this !

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    8,831
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadin View Post
    and why don't cosmic rays passing through our solar system constantly yank bodies wildly free of their orbits and gravitationally shred our planet as they pass through?
    Because they are so tiny. Their rest mass is what determines their capacity to exert gravitational influence. Their rest mass never increases, no matter how fast they go. You are using the deprecated concept of relativistic mass. Pay attention to what Jeff said, and do a Google search on 'relativistic mass'.

Similar Threads

  1. Immunity to electric shock?
    By tashirosgt in forum Off-Topic Babbling
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 2011-Jun-24, 01:43 PM
  2. Gravitational v Relatavistic Red Shift
    By Mawech in forum Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2009-Sep-11, 02:17 PM
  3. Spaceflight Could Decrease Immunity
    By Fraser in forum Universe Today
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 2005-Sep-10, 02:50 AM
  4. what effects would it have?
    By Titana in forum Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2005-May-12, 10:41 PM
  5. Discussion: Spaceflight Could Decrease Immunity
    By Fraser in forum Universe Today
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2004-Oct-05, 10:14 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •