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Thread: How to Travel through other dimensions

  1. #1

    How to Travel through other dimensions

    I am not a physicist but enjoy the topic and I am trying to write a story that includes an argument about quantum mechanics.

    Basically, the question is: How, if possible, could a human be transported to another dimensional space beyond the 3 plus time of our space? In other words travel to a parallel universe.

    My thought on this are:

    * we have mathematical proof that other dimensions exist. That there may be as many as 11.
    * Dimensions are observable only in particle accelerators when we smash matter to bits, so how do you get at the dimensions without destroying matter in our space to do so.
    * If we had the technology, "unrolling" a string to get a a dimensional doorway doesn't necessarily guarantee that the door way goes to a one, two, or three dimensional space nor do we know if that space follows the same physical rules as our space. So going through might be immediate death.

    For the story, I am trying to make the negative argument. The positive argument seems easy because you can just say at some point in time in the future, we will figure out a way. But I am trying to be technically correct in making a negative argument. So , if anyone could clarify these thoughts I would be most appreciative.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by cardgame View Post
    But I am trying to be technically correct in making a negative argument. So , if anyone could clarify these thoughts I would be most appreciative.
    First, there is no mathematical proof that other dimensions exist, physically. If we're in agreement by what we mean by "physically". Mathematical knowledge is different from physical knowledge--witness the profusion of differing non-Euclidean geometries.

    There is one dimensional argument against that I've always liked. You're aware that most of the physical models of extra dimensions have the extra dimensions "rolled" up? It's like a garden hose seen from a long ways away, it looks like a one dimensional line. Close up, it's three dimensional. We just couldn't "live" inside a garden house. The dimensions are too small for us.

    As far as time being another, traversable, dimension, remember it's a lot bigger. It's like our normal space dimensions are the rolled up ones. The conversion factor between time and space dimensions is c--in order to even use them in the same formula for a geodesic, the time quantity is multiplied by c, the speed of light. So, say we want to deviate from our "normal" path by a few meters. Say, go back the way we came five meters. That takes a little bit of effort.

    Now, what if we wanted to go back in time just one tenth of a second? How much effort would be involved? Well, 0.1c is 30,000 kilometers, three quarters of the way around the Earth. That's going to be a bit more than a day trip--just to go "back" one tenth of a second. It won't be easy to go back.

    About as if we were tiny paramecium being flushed through a garden hose.

  3. #3
    Would it be fair to say that Mathematically we believe there may be as many as 11 dimensions because some equations suggest that, for them to work.

    But physically, we cannot observe or study the dimensions, nor ascertain how many really exist? they are theoretical.

    Also going back to another point. Since the dimensions are rolled up and infinitesimally small, we cannot access them. Are there theories that suggest how that might happen in the future, or have all studies basically suggested that we will not be capable of knowing the details of these dimensions or their properties?

  4. #4
    whats to say there is not more than one spacetime continuum? if we think of the continuum like a rubber sheet then technically there could be lots of sheets piled on top of eachother.
    if you want to travel between continuums then you would need some way to distort time and space. what better way to do that than with a bit of gravity, now im not telling you to go and grab a black hole but instead think about using high energy particles. we all know that mass increases with velocity, so just grab some particles, make them spiral around a bit using electro-magnetism and before you know it you'll be in another continuum

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    Quote Originally Posted by cardgame View Post
    Would it be fair to say that Mathematically we believe there may be as many as 11 dimensions because some equations suggest that, for them to work.

    But physically, we cannot observe or study the dimensions, nor ascertain how many really exist? they are theoretical.

    Also going back to another point. Since the dimensions are rolled up and infinitesimally small, we cannot access them. Are there theories that suggest how that might happen in the future, or have all studies basically suggested that we will not be capable of knowing the details of these dimensions or their properties?
    You are referring to M-theory, which postulates 10 spatial dimensions and one time dimension. There has been, up until now, absolutely no proof that it is valid.

    According to M-theory (which unites all the various string theories), we are unable to detect and access the extra 7 spatial dimensions, for the following reason:

    All elementary particles and force exchange particles are open strings, the ends of which are tied to our 3 dimensional universe (or 3-brane, as the terminology for this theory is.). As such, nothing can escape or be used to detect the extra dimensions.

    The only particle which is not tied to our 3-brane universe, is, if it exists, the gravition. The graviton is a closed loop string. These are not tied to our universe. Confirmation of M-theory would be: to detect gravitons and see them suddenly "disappearing".

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    In terms of quantum mechanics and the many-worlds interpretation, there is a finite number of parallel universes comprising a Level-3 multiverse. One "result" of this is that it may be that time itself is an illusion and that we simply "step" from static universe to universe.

    For more info on this cool subject (and other multiverses), check this out:

    http://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/multiverse.html


    m74

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    The above, mentioned by m74, does not involve higher dimensions, so would be a theoretically possible way to get to another universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cardgame View Post
    I am not a physicist but enjoy the topic and I am trying to write a story that includes an argument about quantum mechanics.

    Basically, the question is: How, if possible, could a human be transported to another dimensional space beyond the 3 plus time of our space? In other words travel to a parallel universe.
    So far as I know, we have yet to have a clue as to how that might be done. If you're writing a story, just keep stuffing the character into his own bellybutton until he's there and no longer here. But I see your story requires quantum mechanics, which brings us back to reality, and cluelessness, as in "I haven't a clue."

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    If you want to write a scifi story based on current M-theory cosmology, you could take an approach similar to Abbott's Flatland: The hero is a being from higher spatial dimensions who has "superpowers" in that he can appear and disaappear, change size and form in our 3 dimensional universe at will...

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    How many times have we got to this point... far to often it would seem.

    What knowledge of other dimensions do we have... None.
    Do we actually know where or how we might learn more of this... No.
    Could a individual travel between different realities or dimensions... Not if they are not there...

    Quote; mugaliens...'So far as I know, we have yet to have a clue as to how that might be done. If you're writing a story, just keep stuffing the character into his own bellybutton until he's there and no longer here. But I see your story requires quantum mechanics,' which brings us back to reality, and cluelessness, as in "I haven't a clue."... end quote.

    The point is well made. In your quest for science fiction you are the author. You can write whatever you like... or not. Why do you look for rules where there are none. If you seek encouragement, be encouraged. Go for it. Its your book. If you are looking for some form of endorsement, forget it. Fiction is not real. Please your self.
    From the many books written of the 'Star Wars' epoch. What of the power systems used in those pod race craft. Hyper plasma balancers and negative matter propulsion synthazisers... It does not need to be real. Its called fiction. Do not tell me its not real... I saw it on the television

  11. #11

    i traveled

    Quote Originally Posted by cardgame View Post
    I am not a physicist but enjoy the topic and I am trying to write a story that includes an argument about quantum mechanics.

    Basically, the question is: How, if possible, could a human be transported to another dimensional space beyond the 3 plus time of our space? In other words travel to a parallel universe.

    My thought on this are:

    * we have mathematical proof that other dimensions exist. That there may be as many as 11.
    * Dimensions are observable only in particle accelerators when we smash matter to bits, so how do you get at the dimensions without destroying matter in our space to do so.
    * If we had the technology, "unrolling" a string to get a a dimensional doorway doesn't necessarily guarantee that the door way goes to a one, two, or three dimensional space nor do we know if that space follows the same physical rules as our space. So going through might be immediate death.

    For the story, I am trying to make the negative argument. The positive argument seems easy because you can just say at some point in time in the future, we will figure out a way. But I am trying to be technically correct in making a negative argument. So , if anyone could clarify these thoughts I would be most appreciative.
    All my friends stared telling me what are you talking about, i was explaing them all there actions and they were saying that they where not doing them, but i seen them do it, all toughs actions where done in a different dimension..

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    Had it been possible to travel from one dimension to another, we would have seen either humans or aliens or some beings do so by now. Same goes for time travel. If it did exist, no matter how long it takes to invent time travel, we would have seen tourists from the future.
    Ifcourse, if travel from one galaxy to another were possible by any advanced alien beings, they would have been here by now.

    11 dimensions? Well, after watching that Brian Green multi-universe program, I am convinced there are hundreds of universes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gomar View Post
    ... I am convinced there are hundreds of universes.
    I take the position that alternate universes are useful to speculate about when they are a necessary part of a model that describes something in this universe ... and that hasn't happened yet. BUT if there are other universes, the number of them will not be hundreds. It will technically be finite, but not countable i.e. a googalplex might not be a big enough number to index them all.
    Forming opinions as we speak

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    Only three numbers make sense - zero, one or infinity!

  15. #15
    So going through might be immediate death
    If you are talking about traveling to other dimensions using a physical human body, you may be right. It may also be that there is a way to do it safely.
    It may be possible that other dimensions exist all around us right now, and through our human senses which sense a very narrow rate of vibration, we cannot see them. Human eyes, for example, can only see a tiny range of light based on the speed at which the electrons are rotating around on the atoms. Furthermore, the empty space between the electrons of an atom and the nucleus of an atom is like the distance between stars. There is so much "empty" space there, that for me it raises the question: could there be other atoms in the same space that are moving and rotating so much faster than the ones in our dimension that they can not be seen with our eyes and modern technology? Could the process of moving through dimensions be similar to tuning into different stations on a radio? Where even though the waves exist in the same space at the same time, the mechanisms of the radio pick up different channels by matching the receiver with the frequency of that particular station?

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    Welcome to BAUT, Brett2700, this thread is old so the original participants may not respond.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett2700 View Post
    Furthermore, the empty space between the electrons of an atom and the nucleus of an atom is like the distance between stars.
    Well, empty space is empty space, but the Bohr radius is about 5x10^(-11)m and the proton charge radius is about 1x10^(-15), so the electron is out from the proton only 50,000 times the proton radius. If the proton were the size of the sun, the electron would be out about four or five times the orbit of Pluto. Still less than a light day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cardgame View Post
    I am not a physicist but enjoy the topic and I am trying to write a story that includes an argument about quantum mechanics.

    Basically, the question is: How, if possible, could a human be transported to another dimensional space beyond the 3 plus time of our space? In other words travel to a parallel universe.

    My thought on this are:

    * we have mathematical proof that other dimensions exist. That there may be as many as 11.
    * Dimensions are observable only in particle accelerators when we smash matter to bits, so how do you get at the dimensions without destroying matter in our space to do so.
    * If we had the technology, "unrolling" a string to get a a dimensional doorway doesn't necessarily guarantee that the door way goes to a one, two, or three dimensional space nor do we know if that space follows the same physical rules as our space. So going through might be immediate death.

    For the story, I am trying to make the negative argument. The positive argument seems easy because you can just say at some point in time in the future, we will figure out a way. But I am trying to be technically correct in making a negative argument. So , if anyone could clarify these thoughts I would be most appreciative.
    I'm a bit confused. We have not observational evidence of any dimensions besides our 3 spatial + 1 time dimensions. We do have mathematical models that are trying to unify GR with QM, various "String theories" but these are just models and as of yet not really what many of us consider theories no matter how mathematically elegant they are.

    Again there is no observational evidence of extra dimensions even in particle accelerators tho there is the possibility that in future accelerator we might be able to infer the possibility of extra dimensions in accelerators if we start to record a change in the local law of conservation of energy. IE in high energy collisions if we consistently record less total energy after the collision than we expect then that may suggest that the lost energy is bleeding off into one or more of these extra dimensions. To date tho we have not made any observations to support this tho.

    Finally unrolling a string is different from unrolling a dimension. In String theory there are a number of compactified dimensions and strings can be wound around these dimensions. The strings are allowed to unwind when combining with other strings and probably other ways that are beyond my understanding of string theory.

    So while this might not have been the answer you were looking for this is basically the answer of the main stream as I understand it.

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    by using Inter-Dimensional Fatigue rays.
    Sort of a joke answer from an old video game.
    If you're talking about to travel, then here is a decent list of fiction describing hyperspace and methods which fiction writers have used:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersp...nce_fiction%29
    If you want to know about alternate universes/dimensions, then here's a different list:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...llel_universes

    Hopefully that gives you some ideas

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    The 11 dimensions that string theory suggests are (if they exist) all part of the universe that we are in.

    QCD says the particles that we observe in our 3+1 spacetime are fields that oscillate between all those spatial dimensions (a total of 9 - 3 of which we can experience directly). The dimension of time is one and the same for all those dimensions.

    In that sense those dimensions do not/can not make up a "parallel" universe.

    If you want parallel universes you'd be better off with the many-worlds interpretation of QM.

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    Well yeah, if there is 11 dimensions in our universe, then we live in all those 11 dimensions at once. We do not live in a 3+1 dimension universe. We feel 3+1 dimensions, and that may be caused by certain things : our size (other dimensions may be really small, or really big), our senses (maybe our senses are not made to feel those dimensions, like we do not see UV light although it exists), or just that they do not exist, since they are not proven, to my knowledge, but just hypothesized.

    There was a news, recently, if I remember correctly it was about neutrinos oscillating between different universes, but I'm really not sure about this, since I am not able to search it on universetoday, please someone correct me if I am wrong, and put a link if you know what I'm talking about. This might be more interesting, and more believable.

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