Order of Kilopi
The U.S.-Mexico border areas have been increasingly impacted by illegal activities.
What to do?January 30, 2009
..."The Dallas Morning News, citing anonymous sources, reported that if the bloodbath escalates, U.S. officials are contemplating the possibility of an enhanced U.S. role in battling Mexican drug cartels, including joint operations with Mexican forces and the involvement of U.S. contractors, military and intelligence personnel."...
military.com
Established Member
Does "U.S. contractors" = Blackwater Worldwide?
Order of Kilopi
You bet'cha---Blackwater West was set up last year right on the border, 20 miles southeast of San Diego, in the town of Otay Mesa.Originally Posted by Alan G. Archer
Order of Kilopi
But what's to stop them from contracting to the highest bidder anyway, which would be the drug people?
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Established Member
America is the richest country around. They can finance hospitals that can care for all it's citizens and non-citizens alike. They just has to be a movement for it. We just bailed out failed finanical institutions. If instead, the US government chose to give that money to every American citizen, that would have been about $500,000 per person. Enough to provide sound health care to, to say the least.
I don't think they'd do that. That would make them criminals and targets of the US government. Being ex military, mostly, I don't think they'd do that.
I can see them joining the Minute Men or being hired on behalf of the Mexican government, but I don't see that in this current administration.
Banned
The bailout is by no means a measure of wealth as much as desperation.
That 800 billion is little compared the the trillions owed in debt. So even if you gave that 800 billion to each citizen, then balanced the books and made each citizen put forth a flat rate toward the national debt, we would all, every last one of us die in debt. So would our children. And our grandchildren.
No, we canNOT finance health care for all citizens and non citizens alike, anymore than we can afford much of what we are currently doing.
Established Member
303,824,640 people (July 2008 estimate) x $500,000 = $151,912,320,000,000
Or...
138,893,908 taxpayers (fiscal year 2007) x $500,000 = $69,446,954,000,000
Or...
Outstanding public debt per person = $34,830.29 (the last time I looked).
I have no personal debt, and have been debt-free for nearly thirteen years, but my personal savings, not including my retirement account, would pay for only about 58% of my share of the outstanding public debt. I am currently unemployed and have no health insurance.
We should not be seeing weird outfits like Blackwater under any administration.
Order of Kilopi
I'm going to hate myself for answering this, but I can't let it go.
All that would be is Zimbabwe style money printing. With the bailout, there's the expectation of repayment and/or re-investment. If the government cuts you a check for $500k, is there a chance in heck of you paying it back, or investing it and making more money? No. Its just dollars run off in a fax machine and flushed into the market. In fact, that's all that most of the money issued so far has done, and Congress is up in arms over it, because they were lied to (again).
Not saying any more, this is going in an entirely too political direction as it is.
Newbie
More like $2,000 per person, but you were pretty close.
Order of Kilopi
my idea is to make the entire border from San Diego to the mouth of the Rio Grande into a live fire training ground for the troops that are going to Iraq... it's perfect for that, with all the different types of terrain that they will encounter once they get there, along with bad guys just asking to be blown up.
Established Member
I have a bad feeling about this thread.
Established Member
Mexico is only putting pressure on the drug cartels because America is asking them to do so. Otherwise, The Mexican government could really care less. When criminals kill each other, the problem will solve itself, is pretty much it's policy.
Also, all that drug money coming back into Mexico from America is good for Mexico. Only thing to equal that is the increased aide money from the US.
What we really need to do is solve the drug problem in the United States first. However, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. It's just that if you win the war on drugs, what are all the DEA agents and Border Patrol Agents going to do?
And I believe the Juarez Organization is composed of ex-Mexican Military forces and the other Organization is suffering from a crisis in leadership.
Actually, the American Southwest is a "Living Desert" whereas Iraq is more considered your more traditional desert.
Also, food prices will go through the roof. Ever since there's been farming in California and the South West, there's be migrant labor that comes up from Mexico during the harvest season then go back.
They really should use the military to patrol the boarder. It will give them experience in dealing with a civilian population to which not all of them are hostile, only a small minority.
Established Member
As I mentioned before, the Mexican people are begining to be affected by the violence. last year 5300 deaths related to the conflict between cartels and the government. Kidnappings and murders have impacted the society at all levels not just bad guys. We havent lost that many in 5 years of conflict in IRAQ. Beheadings are common as a shock tactic of the cartels. I believe that the Mexican government is motivated beyond just doing what the US Govt ask.The organized crime aspect has caused a lot violence in the USA, and is on the increase.
A large amount of produce is imported from Mexico, so you are correct that prices will escalate, not just due to migrant labor. They dont all "go back" either.
Using the military on the US side is a problem to an extent in that US troops have no power of arrest. Its called Posse Comittatus, essentially by law we cannot use the military to do law enforcement. When the military is used it is in an administrative or support role as required by our laws.
Established Member
If there's work they might stay. If you look at old photos of farms in the California central valley, the majority of the farm workers are Mexican.
To use the military, legally, they'd have to declare Martial Law in that area and then the military would have full policing powers.Using the military on the US side is a problem to an extent in that US troops have no power of arrest. Its called Posse Comittatus, essentially by law we cannot use the military to do law enforcement. When the military is used it is in an administrative or support role as required by our laws.
Order of Kilopi
Most of the brutal manual labor jobs here in Tucson are done by predominantly Mexican crews. Building brick (slump block) walls, landscaping, paving crews, etc. I can vouch for them - they are NOT lazy. Not only do they do this back-breaking work but they can do it on the hottest days when it's pushing 110 degrees F (43 degrees C).
Order of Kilopi
Make immigration legal. Then you'll have no further illegal activities.
As above, so below
Order of Kilopi
Legal immigration would stop the drug trade?Make immigration legal. Then you'll have no further illegal activities.
Order of Kilopi
Immigration is legal. The issue was illegal immigration. Smugglers smuggle whatever makes the money.
Order of Kilopi
C-SPAN's broadcast of "House Homeland Security Subcmte: Panel 2 - U.S.-Mexico Border Violence" reveals an estimated $60 to $80 billion annual illegal drug "trade" occurring here.
Order of Kilopi
These are very interesting personal stories and eyewitness accounts.
Order of Kilopi
Added: These are two YouTube news reports about shootouts between the Mexican military and drug cartel people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiX1v...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN3i8...eature=related
Last edited by Sam5; 2009-Mar-15 at 10:27 PM. Reason: I added an introduction to the links.
Established Member
The main problem, is the Mexican government can't control what's going on.
That that leads us to wonder...who is in control?
Moderator
Please don't just post links without a description.
Order of Kilopi
Sorry Kor, meant to quote Jens! D'oh!
Order of Kilopi
PLEASE let's all be VERY careful herein.
I feel it's already gotten close to the "line".
Get up, a get-get, get down.
Established Member
I count 39 dead.Eleven homicides occurred in Juarez on Sunday, seven on Monday, six on Tuesday and nine on Wednesday. And on Thursday, at least six men had been killed by the evening, including an unidentified man found tied up and stabbed to death not far from the new U.S. Consulate, state police said.
What to do?
Isn't it up to the Mexican people? Shouldn't it be their fight?
Or are they just running amuck until someone else steps in? Which is ridiculous.
If it's so bad, their government needs to take action.
Order of Kilopi
They are trying, unfortunately, the government and the police force is riddled with corruption. The civilians are as helpless as we are to stop it.
Established Member
If the linked wiki report is accurate; their government can and should take action on their own behalf, without the need for hand holding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico#...t_and_politics
Banned
Unfortunately, the Mexican government isn't nearly as well funded as our own.
Besides - if those who can't make it in Mexico are fleeing to the US, then it becomes the US' problem, not Mexico's.
Honored Member
Would it be in bad taste to note most of this depravity is a sidebar to the drugs moving through Juarez into the US? The giant sucking sound pulls northward. Or maybe giant snorting sound.
Why the heck they can't be more civilized about feeding our habit is beyond me.
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