Wayne vs. Eastwood: Who is THE American cowboy?

[Buttercup]

Clint Eastwood! I'm a fan. His cowboy movies are the only ones I like (with a very few exceptions, like The Magnificent Seven).

[tlbs101]

Clint Eastwood would be more of an Italian cowboy while John Wayne is strictly an American cowboy

.

[geonuc]

Between the two, I'd have to go with Wayne, although Eastwood is by far the more talented and I generally like his movies better.

[BigDon]

Clint Eastwood would be more of an Italian cowboy while John Wayne is strictly an American cowboy

.

Awww, you said it before I did!

[BigDon]

Though Outlaw Josie Wales was the best Western done by either of those two.

[PetersCreek]

Of the two, John Wayne is the cowboy for me. Most of Eastwood's characters were bad boys, renegades, mysterious loners, or other unusual characters...not the traditional cowboy image. But you're leaving an awful lot of fine cowboy actors out of the competition. Randolf Scott, Gene Autry, Roy Rogers, and of more recent vintage, Tom Selleck...to name a few. But still, in my opinion, John Wayne gets the credit for continuing and defining the iconic image of the American cowboy in our popular lore.

[Buttercup]

Augh! Heretics!! (except for Geonuc)

[Salty]

I think both have faithfully depicted different aspects of the American cowboy. So, I didn't vote as there was no choice for 'both'.

[Buttercup]

Most of Eastwood's characters were bad boys, renegades, mysterious loners...

Yes!

[Gillianren]

Playing a cowboy was what John Wayne did. He did war pictures, but he was pretty much a cowboy in them. In The Quiet Man, he was a cowboy in Ireland. In Donovan's Reef, he was a cowboy in the South Seas. (Mind, I like both of those movies. But he was pretty much playing the same character.)

Clint Eastwood has played a cowboy, and well. And, yes, I think Dirty Harry was pretty much a cowboy in San Francisco. But if you look at his record, he clearly has a much wider range. He can also create other characters--look at his World War II pictures. Could John Wayne have had anything to do with Letters From Iwo Jima? No. He gave us Sands of Iwo Jima, the most dreary propaganda.

On the other hand, where's William S. Hart and Tom Mix?

[Buttercup]

On the other hand, where's William S. Hart and Tom Mix?

Who?

[PetersCreek]

On the other hand, where's William S. Hart and Tom Mix?

I felt I had to stop somewhere but they're also classic cowboy actors. Other western favorites are Jimmy Stewart, Henry Fonda, Ben Johnson, Gabby Hayes, Dub Taylor, Jack Elam, Harry Carey Jr., and...

[peteshimmon]

Hey! Did not Mr Eastwood actually help in
moving cattle one time?

rollin rollin rollin...

[mugaliens]

Neither of these two are real cowboys.

Jimmy Stewart actually did his own trick shooting in one of the westerns he did. I didn't see Roy Rogers mentioned, which is just as well, as he was an actor, though he could rope and ride. Gabby Hayes never rode a horse until he was into his 40's, so he's out.

Gene Autry, on the other hand, was born in Texas, and learned to ride when he was just a tyke. His family moved to Oklahoma, and out of high school he worked as a telegrapher for the St. Louis-San Fracisco Railway. He just happened to be a natural singer and guitar player, and was discovered by Will Rogers.

My vote is for Gene Autry.

[Gillianren]

I felt I had to stop somewhere but they're also classic cowboy actors.

Oh, I know. The list does rather go on. But if we're going to start somewhere, they're the place to start. Heck, the last lines of Tombstone mention both of 'em. The very last line is "Tom Mix wept."

[Trantor]

Clint Eastwood was the best, even though I did like many John Wayne movies. "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" was the greatest western epic ever, in my opinion. "The Outlaw Josey Wales" was a strong second. "Rio Bravo" is my favorite John Wayne western.

[cosmocrazy]

The hardest part is trying to compare the 2 of them... in my opinion although both classed as "cowboys" their characters in most westerns are miles apart. Clint mostly played the part of a bounty hunter just out to make a good living from capturing the really nasty bad guys, working outside of the law most of the time himself. John mostly played the good old American hero, rescuing the damsels and standing for good and truth. (although they both can and have played similar parts in some films).

For me both actors portrayed their respective characters better than anyone else in the business.
But Clint is my childhood hero so i had to vote for him!

[Ara Pacis]

are we referring to strictly movie portrayals or real life? Was Clint Eastwood a whiney draft-dodger too?

[Larry Jacks]

John Wayne (actual name Marion Robert Morrison) was born on May 26, 1907. The draft started in 1940 when he was 33 years old. I'll have to check but offhand, I don't think too many married men over 30 were drafted in WWII. It's true that some actors like the great Jimmy Stewart volunteered for service during the war and Wayne didn't, but that hardly makes him a draft dodger.

As for Clint Eastwood, he's a very good actor who as often as not plays the anti-hero while Wayne almost always played the hero. Personally, The Outlaw Jose Wales is one of my all time favorite movies, especially the part played by Chief Dan George. His deadpan humor was classic and priceless.

[Tucson_Tim]

are we referring to strictly movie portrayals or real life? Was Clint Eastwood a whiney draft-dodger too?

Uh oh! Here we go . . . Downward thread spiral imminent!

[Ara Pacis]

Hey, I'm not making a value judgement. Being anti-social and counter-cultural was kinda part of the cowboy mythos.

[BigDon]

Uh oh! Here we go . . . Downward thread spiral imminent!

Allow me Tim.

Ara, you remember that episode of Star Trek "The Trouble with Tribbles" when that Klingon told Scotty that the Enterprise ought to be haul off as garbage?

You just did the same thing boy.

[Fazor]

I thought Kid Rock was suppose to be the new American cowboy.

Ha! I couldn't keep a straight face while I typed that.

[PetersCreek]

I think many of the opinions...in all due respect...miss the point of the OP, at least as it was framed: who is THE American cowboy?

Clint Eastwood is a talented actor who created memorable, enduring western characters, no doubt...and who am I to say you're wrong for declaring him your favorite western actor? But do those characters qualify as the iconic "American cowboy"? After his days on Rawhide, he didn't portray a cowboy often at all, did he? I can easily recall roles as a gunfighter-turned-farmer, a preacher, a marshall, and even a singing prospector. I think the closest he came to the idealized image of the American cowboy was in Bronco Billy in which he played a man who was playing the role of cowboy.

John Wayne, on the other hand, played the cowboy (or similar character) much more often: The Cowboys, Big Jake, McLintock!, Chisum, Red River, Tall in the Saddle, and others. Maybe my thinking is too narrow but in my mind, of all the characters in the old west, there are cowboys and there's everyone else...lawmen, outlaws, gunfighters, gamblers, judges, shopkeepers, et al...who didn't live the life or do the work of the cowboy.

But I admit, I may be a bit biased. I used to compete in the sport of Cowboy Action Shooting and did a fair bit of reading and research on both the historical and cinematic portrayals of cowboy life.

[Tucson_Tim]

. . . and did a fair bit of reading and research on both the historical and cinematic portrayals of cowboy life.

. . . and how much they differed?

[publius]

I don't like comparisons between John Wayne and Eastwood, either. I consider them the best of their respective types.

Wayne = Hero

Eastwood = Anti-hero

And "The Outlaw Josey Wales" is my favorite film of all time, really. I like the anti-heroes better than the heroes, I suppose. But render unto Eastwood what is Eastwood's and unto Wayne what is Wayne's.


-Richard

[kleindoofy]

"THE" American cowboy?

Errr, certainly not an actor, so I'd vote for 'neither.'

Having ruled out actors, I could suggest Heath Ledger.

[Gillianren]

John Wayne (actual name Marion Robert Morrison) was born on May 26, 1907. The draft started in 1940 when he was 33 years old. I'll have to check but offhand, I don't think too many married men over 30 were drafted in WWII. It's true that some actors like the great Jimmy Stewart volunteered for service during the war and Wayne didn't, but that hardly makes him a draft dodger.

John Wayne had himself declared too valuable an asset to the stateside effort to be drafted. Then, when that status was taken away, the studio got it reinstated. This was after his deferment for family was no longer valid because he could now afford to leave them behind.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...a-draft-dodger

[kleindoofy]

John Wayne had himself declared too valuable an asset to the stateside effort to be drafted. ...

Ahhh, a true American hero!

That makes Captain Glenn Miller look daring.

[Fazor]

I don't blame him. A man in a ten-gallon hat riding up the beaches of Normandy on a horse would have stood out like a sore thumb!