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## Vacuum

I just have one question to Dr. Phil. Why do you insist on referring to a vacuum? What do you base space as being a vacuum upon?

2. Well it is not technically a vacume. There are tons of microscopic things floating in it and the presence of earth tself proves that it is not a vacume.

But when speaking to the general public sometimes its good to say things they understand and then refine this later on when they understand the basics.

Also: Welcome to the board!

3. Dang it Humphrey, I was just about to post exactly the same thing!

Welcome to the board, FREEDOMROX!

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## Never understood that logic as it is inaccurate.

Thank you. I was hoping this would be one Phil would answer, but I appreciate it. If interested, I will post my computations to the relevancy of such statements.

5. I'm interested.

I was under the impresion that Phil has stated that space is not a vacuum, but can be treated as such because it is nearly a vacuum and acts as such. What would the difference be between a real vacuum and space's approximate vacuum?

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## Sorry, this took a few minutes to type.

First we must take into account all variables, and the fallacy of virtual, mental, and literal. Any disagreement or computational correction is welcome, as this was done on the fly. I must go now to work on a gas heater, but back later. :wink:

1. Variable mass
Photon or phonon mass L / c^2 = mph varies with frequency f
and wavelength wl, --where wl = 2*pi*nL*r1 / nA = nL*c / f.

Light is a LaGrangian L --NOT a rest energy eM = m*c^2. Rest
mass m is just not itself invariant. 'Invariant mass' is an Old
Classical PRE-particle-decay notion. Invariant was the attitude.

The Relativity FAQ: &lt; Do Photons Have Mass? > entails this same
easy misunderstanding of the 'invariant' historical fact. There is
no 'invariant mass' anymore. 'Invariant mass' is an old relic of a
misnomer from the dim days of old.

2. some reference nomenclature
Remember volt*amp*sec energy eV is - m1*v1^2 / 2, --and
using one excludes the other, per event. NO energy state can be
both increased and decreased, at once.

Fine STRUCTURE variable (n - 1) = (mD / m1) - 1
= (mD - m1) / m1 = (mD - m1) / (do - di)*Vi
= mS / m1 = (mD - m1)*Po / (Po - Pi)*Vi*dx.
= (mD - m1)*v1^2 / eG = (vescape)^2 / 2*v1^2.

SiGNETiC mass mS = (n - 1)*m1 = mD - m1, where n = mD / m1
--and where do and di are the inside and outside densities
of evacuated shell mass m1, Vi is it's inside volume, (n - 1)*v1
is the REQUiRED velocity at radius r1 and potential gravitational
acceleration g. Cavity Volume Vi = cavity mass / cavity density.

Ambient Discharge mass mD = (n)*m1 = mS + m1.
Ambient Discharge mass mD controls the sign and magnitude of g and
v1 at r. This is AMBiENT mass discharged from the shell mass CAViTY.
The REQUiRED velocity (n - 1)*v1 varies with mD.

3. In the following reference, AVERAGE {A} is NOT amp 'A':
{A} = AVERAGE number of atomic mass units u, per mol part.
~approximate(= isotopic number = protons Zp + nutrons Nn).
{A}*u = average amount of substance per mol part, in kg
(Note: In the OLD Periodic Table of Elements, {A}*u is the
average isotopic 'atomic weight' or 'relative atomic mass'.)
NOTE: OLD {A} is an AVERAGE; {GUESSISS} iSOTOPiC Xmass is EXACT.
u = atomic mass unit (amu), ..in {GUESSISS} kilograms.

Any AMBiENT media is gradient surrounding any M1, ANYwhere,
..including ANY sample N:
Ni = ni / xi
= [(n)*{A} / xi] atomic mass units u
= [(n)*{A}*u / xi] kilograms of various amounts of the media
substance extending away from M1 (--and on into deep space),
--for which:
xi = mol fraction of component medium i
ni = amount of substance of component medium i
Ni = total amount of substance of the mixture
--and where:
(mol part) = a mol of any substance / Avagadro's number Na
= any specified AVERAGE molar particle {A}*u
= a byte of (n)*bits = a molarbyte / Na
= [(n)*{A}] amu = [(n)*{A}*u] kg
byte = any number of bits, --but is usually just eight 8.
= typical unit of information in a computer system.
molarbyte = Na*bytes = (n)*Na*bits.
bit = binary digit = byte / (n) = (mol part) / (n)
= molarbyte / (n)*Na = {1 / (n)*Na} molarbyte
= molarbit / Na = {1 / Na} molarbit
= 1 yoctomolarbit = {ISS} 1.659772169 x 10^-24 mol
= {1 / (n)} yoctomolarbyte --where (n) is currently eight 8
= {A} ..in amu = [{A}*u] kg = 1 Bodot*second = 1 baud*sec
= smallest unit of information in a computer system.
Na = Avagadro's number, which is the same for any mol of
substance = {ISS} 5.994469365 x 10^23 (mol part) / Mol.

Every Integrated Standard System {ISS} iCON character has
precise, COHERENT mathematical, numerical magnitude &amp; definition,
in numerical, COMPLETELY COHERENT units.

4. Skypunt docking (n - 1)
Hovering is an orbital period T1 with a limit of infinity, and the
Newtonian orbital velocity constant v1^2 is equal to g*r1, where g
would be the free-falling gravitational acceleration at the orbital
radius r1. In this context, note that:
a.) If mD = m1, the shell mass m1 is hovering in the ambient
medium. If mD = 0, then the shell mass m1 in the ambient
velocity v1, free-falling down at - g, or at rest in a ground state.
b.) --the velocity 'required' to maintain radius r1 increases with
the signetic mass mS = eS / c^2 = mD - m1
= (n - 1)*m1 = G*M1*m1 / r1^2*g = G*M1*m1 / r1*v1^2
c.) --that g 'as measured', and its + or - sign varies with (n - 1).
The gravitational acceleration varies with the signetic mass mS,
and accordingly the bouyancy of m1.
d.) --that (n - 1) manages the sign of g, v1, and G where:
G*M1 / r1^2 = (n - 1)*g = (n - 1)*v1^2 / r1

Signetic mass mS varies with the REQUiRED (n - 1)* v1 and gives v1
and gravitational acceleration g each its required sign. Synetic mass
is the (mD - m1) 'mass difference' and can be either positive, zero,
or negative.

5. Nature abhors 'NO medium'
NOTE: The very least measured medium on earth in which light has
~10^7 times MORE atoms / m^3 than the space-shuttle test media,
~10^10 times MORE atoms / m^3 than interstellar space,
~10^19 times MORE atoms / m^3 than deep space.

a. Deep space:
[0.001 atoms per cubic meter]
[= 10^-3 atoms / m^3]
b. Interstellar space:
[1,000,000 atoms per cubic meter]
[= 10^6 atoms / m^3]
c. Space suttle:
[1,000,000,000 atoms per cubic meter]
[= 10^9 atoms / m^3]
d. Very least test medium ever achieved on earth:
[1, 000,000,000,000 atoms per cubic meter]
[= 10^12 atoms / m^3]
e. Very least light-speed test (as-measured on earth):
[10,000,000,000,000,000 atoms per cubic meter]
[= 10^16 atoms / m^3]
f. Molar gas standard at STP:
[10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms per cubic meter]
[= 10^25 atoms per cubic meter]

The ONLY vacuum WAS the only absurdity without the mediation
of anything else. BEFORE the first beginning was ONLY vacuum.
Since then, there can ONLY have been reduced media. Since then,
vacuum can ONLY have been a state of mind or mental condition.
Vacuum is only HOW-it-use-to-be BEFORE the very first FiELD.

An 'interfacial more or less localized' zone exists BETWEEN all
molar particles with absolutely nothing else between them.

7. Creation vs Vacuum
Creation destroyed the ONLY vacuum; there hasn't been one
since. DO NOT confuse 'vacuum' with 'reduced media'.
Even a single photon is a reduced medium. We can see through
interstellar space because we can't see photons side-on or at
an angle ..but only one-end-on. Photons are invisible, looking
through some cross-section of such a stream, as interstellar
space appears empty. You must look exactly up-stream to see
them at all. Of course any clear glass appears empty, too.
In this way, photons are LONGiTUDiNAlly POLARiZED.
Phonons are mathematic-ly the SAME as photons.

Since creation, VACUUM is only a mental dimension or condition.
Various vacuums can ONLY exist in swisscheese-like minds.
>&lt;> >&lt;> >&lt;> >&lt;> >&lt;>

8. Archimede's cavity filling missing
The {GUESS} negates GR-tivity and Ether, when the 'proper'
missing buoyancy factor (n - 1) is NOT left out of Newton's law.
Assume a shell mass m1, enclosing a large cavity, is sitting
submerged at the bottom of a gradient medium, and that the
cavity is filled with ambient medium at ambient temperature,
and ambient pressure &amp; density. As per Archimede's Principle:

solid volume = total ambient displacement

An 'ADDENDUM to Archimede's Principle' is required, to account
for the displacement of the medium by ANY submerged 'cavity'
contained by the shell mass m1, as follows:

Solid volume + cavity = total ambient medium displacement
= Vm1 + Vi = Vm1 + {m1 / (do - di)} , --hovering submerged.

A submerged object with a cavity displaces a volume of ambient
equal to the volume of shell material itself, plus the displacement
of any cavity that the shell encloses. Archimede's Principle is
independent of DENSiTY for a cavity enclosed in a SUBMERGED object.
The PERiDiODiC TABLE accounts for the various densities and
displacements of all known solids, gases, and plasmas, etc, --but,
CAViTiEs or HOLEs which are contained by a stiff shell also have
densities and displacements relative to the outside AMBiENT.

Submerged shell mass m1 will hover in the media when its CAViTY
discharges a mass of ambient media equal to the shell mass m1,
..irrespective of the DENSiTY of the shell itself.
Hovering is independent of any fixed density of the actual
SHELL MASS m1 itself, --as long as m1 remains submerged with
respect to any ambient media, --but is NOT independent of the
density of its CAVITY MASS, with respect to any ambient media.

There is no obvious reason to have to SPECiFY shell strength (S)
UNLESS its REQUiRED to define a SPECiFiC material for the shell m1.
HOVERiNG can be maintained by a stiff sealed shell mass in AMBiENT
by combination of the following:
1. a difference in temperature --hot air lift
2. a difference in pressure --the reduction method
3. a difference in density --lighter medium method
--all between inside and outside of the containment shell
4. a subsequent orbital velocity (n - 1)*v1 required to maintain
an hovering radius r1 ..lift-off rocket, airplane &amp; copter between.
NOTE: States 1, 2, &amp; 3 are separated from state 4 by a significant
somewhat FORBiDDEN ZONE with a very un-likely probability of being
able to support either method of hovering.

Hovering.. Vi*(do - di) = shell mass m1
= (cavity volume)*(DELTA density)
= (shell volume Vs)*(shell density ds)
= Vs*ds
= Vi*(Po - Pi)*(unit density) / Po
= 4*Vi*(shell stress S)*(unit density) / Po*{(diameter / thickness) + 1}
= 4*Vi*(thickness)*(S)*(unit density) / Po*(diameter + thickness)
= {(Vi*do) - (inside mass mi)} / n
= (mD - m1) / (n - 1)
= mS / (n - 1)
= mS / {(mD / m1) - 1}
= mD / n
= mS*r1^2*g / G*M1
= mS*r1*v1^2 / G*M1
--where:
Synetic mass mS varies with the required velocity (n - 1)*v1.
mD = amount of ambient discharge mass from m1 cavity
= n*m1 = Vi*do - mi = mS + m1 , --(at hovering mD = m1).
Vi = pi*(dia)^3 / 6 = hovering spherical cavity volume
v1 = m1 velocity
do = outside ambient density
di = inside ambient density
r1 = centre to centre separation of M1 to m1 radius
g = potential gravitational acceleration at radius r1
Po = outside ambient pressure
Pi = Inside ambient pressure
dia = hovering inside diameter of m1 cavity
th = hovering shell mass m1 thickness
M1 = typically a central mass

9. the fundamental CONSTANT set
The Systeme Internationale d'Units(SI) is currently established
on the meter, the kilogram, the second, and the ampere, known
as the (MKSA) or Giorgi System, which is a SINGLE 'rationalized'
(but not a completely coherent) system.

In 1901-1903, Professor A Giorgi recommended that when the
magnetic permeability constant Uo is assigned the magnitude of
the mathematical constant 4*pi / 10^7 and the electric permittivity
constant is assigned the magnitude of 1/ Uo*c^2, a profound
mathematical coherence among the appropriate units of measure
(Meter, Kilogram, Second, and Ampere) and some of the very
most fundmental physical constants is created.

The Giorgi recommendation was accepted in the 1930's and has
been enacted into law by the British, American, and many other
national parliaments over the years.

Centimeter Gram Second(CGS) systems are inherently divided
into mutually exclusive versions, --the electrostatic esu units and
the electromagnetic emu units. CGS units are 'un-rationalized'
and have no integrated coherence.

Heaviside-Lorentz units comprise a CGS system of electrostatic
esu and the electromagnetic emu units, and is a dublet-rationalized
form of Gaussian units (which are unrationalized and have no
integrated coherence comparable to Systeme Internationale d'Units).
The dublet Heaviside-Lorentz, and the Gaussian units, are both still
used in particle physics and GR-tivity today.

The SI is a single, far MORE coherent, system of units. The loose
ends are now tied in and a new, more natural, COMPLETELY coherent,
and rationalized system translates from the work.

NEW SI --the Integrated Standard System{ISS}, is a very fundamental
fusion of simple basic mathematics, the list of CODATA fundamental
physical constants, inter-related equations, and basic measure units
--a COMPLETELY coherent numerical analysis.

We don't have a measured, least-squares-adjusted pi because we know,
exactly, mathematically, what the magnitude of pi 'ought to be'.

NOW, we also know exactly, mathematically, what the magnitudes
of all the other fundamental physical constants 'ought to be', too.

The {ISS} is a completely coherent, simple, mathematical matrix.
One 1, pi, and ''e'' form an INITIAL set of numbers (mathematical
constants).

Pi, ''e'', 10, pi + 1, and Qx(Stefan-Boltzmann radiation constant)
form a PRINCIPAL set. The principal set spits out a completely
coherent set of all of the most fundamental physical constants,
--and in completely coherent fundamental units of measure.

Subsequently, the secondary set is of all of the most fundamental
physical constants. The secondary set is the fundamental CONSTANT
set. There are no arbitrary fundamental physical constants.

NOTE:
a. Request: 'Harmonic Metrology {Integrated Standard System}'
&lt; ISBN 0 9693164 1 0 ;&lt; {ISS}.wpd; 55KB; legal size >
--a precise account in CORAL Word Perfect 7; 53KB.
b. Search: &lt; {GUESS} Integrated Standard System {ISS} >
--{ISS} general structure in ACSII, acsii, e-mail script.

10a. GENERAL UNiVERSAL EQUATiON of STATE SYSTEM {GUESS} model:
a fine STRUCTURE table
n - 1 is the fine STRUCTURE variable PERIODIC TABLE icon.
n - 1 = - 1 = i^2 ..for GR-tivity; Where mD / m1 = n = 0
n - 1 = 0 ..at BUOYED weightlessness; '' mD / m1 = n = 1
n - 1 = ae ..electron PRiOR anomally; '' n = mn / mp
n - 1 = a ..the fine STRUCTURE constant; '' n = mp / u
n - 1 = + 1 = i^4 ; ..where n = 2 = ge*(a + 1)*u / mn
u = mp / (a + 1) = D_2 / (a + 2) = D_2 - mp = Hy - me
= mn / (a + 1)*(ae + 1) = 2*mn / ge*(a + 1) = mp - a*u
= ATOMiC MASS UNiT amu = the PRiOR STANDARD atom / integer
= INTEGRATED STANDARD SYSTEM {ISS} unit masss / N = 1 / N.

10b. HAMiLTONiAN ENTHALPY energy E FRAME of REFERENCE:
{GUESSISS} HAMiLTONiAN ENTHALPY energy E
= G*M1*m1 / (n - 1)*r1 + m1*v1^2 / 2 + m1^2*v1^2 / 2*M1
= m*c^2 + mph*c^2 - m1*v1^2 / 2
= m*c^2 + pL*c + pA*f1
= eM + h*f + eV
= eM + L + eV
= eM + eK
= L + eF + eK
= eG - eV + eK
= eG + L
= eG + h*f
= eG + pL*c
= eG + mph*c^2
= eG + (m1*v1^2 / 2)*{(m1 / M1) + 1}
= eG + m1*v1^2 / 2 + m1^2*v1^2 / 2*M1
= G*M1*m1 / (n - 1)*r1 + m1*v1^2 / 2 + m1^2*v1^2 / 2*M1.

NOMENCLATURE:
E = Hamiltonian Enthalpy energy.
G = universal Gravitational constant volume / {mass*(sec)^2}.
M1 = a massive typically central body.
pA = nA*hbar = eV / f1 = Angular momentum
nA = pA / hbar = eV / hbar*f1 --a dimensionless number
pL = nL*h / wavelength wl = h*f / c = Linear momentum
nL = pL* wl / h = L*wl / h*c --a dimensionless number
wl = wavelength = nL*h / pL = nL*h*c / Lagrangian L
= nL*c / f = nL*h / Linear momentum pL = 2*pi*wlbar
pL = Linear MOMENTUM = nL*h / wl
f = nL*c / wl = nA*c / 2*pi*r1 = pL*c / h = pA*c / h*r1 = FREQUENCY
h = Planck's constant = 2*pi*Dirac's constant = 2*pi*hbar
mph = h*f / c^2 = pL / c = general PHOTON mass (..NOT a REST mass m)
= L / c^2 ..photon mass is NON-RELATiViSTiC (See Er icon, below).
L = eK - eV = E - eF - eK = E - eM - eV = E - eG = h*f = pL*c
= eM - eF = mph*c^2 = {GUESS} LaGrangian photon &amp; phonon energy.
eK = E - eM = m1^2*v1^2 / 2*M1 = {nL*h*c / wl} + {nA*hbar*f1}
= L + eV = h*f + pA*f1 = Kinetic energy
= pL*c + pA*f1 = h*f + eV = eG - eF
= mph*c^2 - m1*v1^2 / 2 = (Gibb's free energy - Helmholtz free energy).
eV = pA*f1 = -(m1*v1^2 / 2) = VOLTAGE times CHARGE -> V*A*sec
eM = REST energy = m*c^2 = E - eK = E + m1*v1^2 / 2 - mph*c^2
= E - eV - L = eF + L = eG + m1*v1^2 / 2 ..VERY COHERENTLY,
= [{G*M1*m1 / (n - 1)*r1} + m1*v1^2 / 2] = eG - eV
= NEWTON's energy for an isolated system including mass M1
with test mass m1 at velocity v1 in its vicinity reduces to THREE
ZERO-POiNT lattice vibration energy phonon quanta of h*f / 2 each.
(..fine STRUCTURE variable (n - 1) included for n = mD / m1 = 0)
= Er*sqrt[1 - (vr^2 / c^2)] = Mr*c^2*sqrt[1 - (vr^2 / c^2)]
= Sr*c^4 / 2*G = (universe mass)*c^2*sqrt[1 - (1^2 / ®^2)]
--ALL these eM's are iNTRiNSiC energy EQUiVALENTs of REST mass m.
m1 = {GUESSISS} test mass in the vicinity of M1.
v1 = m1 velocity of m1 in the vicinity of M1
r1 = v1^2 / g = pA / pL = M1 to m1 (centre centre) distance.
mD = mass discharge of ambient from {ISS} test particle m1 cavity
--NOTE that mD = m1 at the point of buoyed weightlessness.
mS = (n - 1)*m1 = signetic mass = fine structure variable times m1
eF = Helmholtz Free energy = eM - L = eG - eK
eG = eM + eV = E - L = E - eK + eV = eK + eM - L
= G*M1*m1 / (n - 1)*r1 = [e]^2 / r1 = Gibb's free energy
--(can also be 2*eP or m1*v1^2 in an isolated system).
g = 4*(pi)^2*(pendulum length) / (pendulum period)^2 = v1^2 / r1
= G*M1 / (n - 1)*r1^2 = G*M1*m1 / mS*r1^2 = isolated eG / m1*r1
= 4*(pi)^2*r1 / T1^2 = G*M1*m1 / (mD - m1)*r1^2.
c = velocity of light.
Er = {GUESSISS} relativistic energy:
1. Photon mass mph = h*f / c^2 = L / c^2 is not relativistic.
2. Central mass M1 and test mass m1 at velocity v1 in its
vinicity constitute an isolated system's rest mass.
Mr = rest mass m / sqrt[1 - (vr^2 / c^2)] = relativistic mass
vr = rest mass relativistic velocity
Sr = isolated mass system's Schwarzschild GR-'radius'
® = SiZE coefficient of self-shrinkage, if any, by increased mass.
mass ---> ANY magnitude with units definable in kilogram kg
---> VARIABLE Kg ---> inertia / m^2 ---> ANY joule / c^2.
(n - 1) = (mD - m1) / m1 = a fine STRUCTURE variable,
--where mD is AMBiENT Discharge mass from m1
--and where (n) = mD / m1 provides the + or - sign.

11. Nature abhors an EMPTY cavity
There is no particular ambient medium iNSiDE a container-cavity,
..by definition. Any internal 'reduced ambient media' is RELATiVE
to the typical OUTSiDE ambient media.

VACUUM is literally NON-existant by molar accounting. BUT,
for a CAViTY with a PARTiCULAR volume, it is related to a
PARTiCULAR amount of displaced SUBSTANCE (N - nd)
= MOLAR cavity DiSPLACEMENT = N*(1 - xd) mol
--where: nd = N*xd
--and: xd = nd / N = the molar fraction of the amount of
iNSiDE ambient substance nd, initially at equilibrium with the
OUTSiDE ambient, which gets DiSCHARGED from a cavity containing
a TOTAL mixed AMOUNT of substance N. (See: AMBiENT MEDiA, above.)

A practical basic STANDARD for that is the molar fraction xd which
is currently discharged at POiNT of BUOYANCY in the ambient media.
The amount of substance nd displaced, at the point of buoyancy in
the ambient media, is exactly equal to the AMOUNT of SUBSTANCE of
the container's SHELL mass m1 (..plus any LOAD, of course).

''You might as well just say--'' the amount of substance of the
container is the space-TiME-curvature, at the GR-tivity Limit,
..IN the SPACE, ON the SURFACEs, of the cavity-CONTAiNER,
..whether the cavity is EMPTY or NOT. Any inside or outside
particular ambient medium or media has its own con-CROOKED-space.
Note how space &amp; TiME virtually implies con &amp; CROOKED ..by analogy.

When people say ''vacuum'' they are invariably talking about
REDUCED container-cavity media. The 'reduction' of a cavity is
relative to outside ambient. A REDUCED cavity is characterized by
a relative DiFFERENCE in shell stress, and between particular iSiDE
and OUTSiDE densities (i.e. temperatures &amp; pressures). It seems quite
easy to confuse 'reduced pressure', --or technical 'reduction', with
a VACUUM (i.e. ..the MENTAL dimension or a MENTAL condition).

NATURE abhors an EMPTY container CAViTY.

EPiLOG: Evolving physical creation
Theories are mental concepts of physical creations,
and however free we are to CREATE them in our mind,
there are no PHYSiCAL concepts or PHYSiCal theories.

We justifiably STRUCTURE some uniquely determined
concepts to help us understand as wide a range of
phenomena as possible.

7. Wow. Man i wish i knew math so i could understand a 10th of that.

8. Member
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I admit it is a little dry and simplistic, but will post more later. BBL 8)

9. Can you please provide your citation of Dr. Plait calling space a vaccum?

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Originally Posted by Humphrey
Well it is not technically a vacume. There are tons of microscopic things floating in it and the presence of earth tself proves that it is not a vacume.

But when speaking to the general public sometimes its good to say things they understand and then refine this later on when they understand the basics.
It depends on which definition you are using. When a scientist refers to a vacuum, typically the reference is to a region where the pressure is significantly below 1 atmosphere (which is one definition of vacuum).

11. ## plagiarizing

I hope you are not plagiarizing, or is this your post as well?

http://mailgate.supereva.it/sci/sci..../msg01024.html

("`-/")_.-'"``-.,,
\. . `; -._( );, `)
(v_,)' _ )`-. \ ``'`
_.- _..-/ /((.'
((,.-' ((,/

Graphic by: Toe!&lt; epastore@erols.com >

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## Forget any forum that welcomes people in such a manner.

Just got home. Very interesting day. I see the flaming has already begun.

The reference is on the Apollo page.

"Now here comes a little bit of math: the engine nozzle was about 54 inches across (from the Encyclopaedia Astronautica), which means it had an area of 2300 square inches. That in turn means that the thrust generated a pressure of only about 1.5 pounds per square inch! That's not a lot of pressure. Moreover, ""in a vacuum"", the exhaust from a rocket spreads out very rapidly. On Earth, the air in our atmosphere constrains the thrust of a rocket into a narrow column, which is why you get long flames and columns of smoke from the back of a rocket. ""In a vacuum"", no air means the exhaust spreads out even more, lowering the pressure. That's why there's no blast crater! Three thousand pounds of thrust sounds like a lot, but it was so spread out it was actually rather gentle. "
To my accuser:
That is not my posting, but I placed this on a newsgroup 2 years ago known as sci.edu.
A lot of what I have learned over time comes from my study of "A New Cosmogony", and "A Perfect Vacuum", but I wrote it, yes.
Seems I may have been plaguerized.
I see the tone of this forum is not what I was led to believe. Seems I am mistaken about the demeanor of most forums I try out these days.
Sigh.
The search for reason continues.

13. I apologize.

I didn't realize the work was yours.
Sorry. ops:

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## All you know is all you know.

If anyone has any thoughts, or if I am mistaken, please, I am here to learn. If not, then what is the point? Can a vacuum be achieved anywhere, at anytime?
Is the a quantum reality where it is possible, or one of the 11 string dimensions.
What are anyone's thought upon the emerging string theorum?
I know this is trolling, but I do not want to jump into other threads where I am at a distinct disadvantage, by not knowing the history of the poster.
The only sure thing I am absolute on, is that we are only scratching the surface of knowledge about the perceptual universe in which we reside.

15. I agree.
Man has yet to experience vacuum.
I believe string theorum will put science on its ear.

The only sure thing I am absolute on, is that we are only scratching the surface of knowledge about the perceptual universe in which we reside.
......and I agree 100% with this statement.

16. I'm not sure where the flaming you are speaking of is...

If anyone has any thoughts
What is that supposed to mean?

I don't see why it is such a big deal if Phil refers to space, or the space on the lunar surface as a vacuum. That quote doesn't exactly have him defining space as a pure vacuum. Mountains out of molehills?

17. Member
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## Thoughts define Perception

Sorry, it was the only one I could find on such short notice, as I explained I just walked in the door. I have followed his postings on other forums as well.

An thoughts? Well, that is the whole point of the Perceptual Univers now isn't it? I think therefore I am. Nothing is absolute. If so, please give me an example. Death? Not really, when was the last time you died?
Taxes? Not if you are not a 14th Amendment citizen residing under the Constitution OF the United States.

So what else do we have left, but thoughts? Do you function, or do we prgress without them?

18. Member
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Hmmm, why am I losing character feeds on this forum?

19. Member
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Seems I have stepped into an ambient medium when I stepped onto the face of this forum. :-?

20. I am still with you. I am a character, and I do feed.
I also would like to welcome you to the board.
=D>

I have 'whined' about the speed of light not being accurate, gravity being a lot slower, not enough evidence to support either law..........etc

I have been spanked and sent to bed without dinner on this board; but I still consider it as one of the best sites for scientific truth anywhere.
We may be picky about OT, but if a point is good, we will discuss it.

21. Member
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I should have put in character sets. Missing letters. Possibly my browser settings, I do not know.
Ok, Pinemartin.
Let's define gravity then, shall we?
Is it magnetism, as I believe, or is the mysterious generated force that the Unfied Theory keep attempting to discover a fifth, (hidden) force to explain?

22. Member
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Yeesh, now it's whole words. &lt;insert>Unified Theory's researchers' attempting to find.
This is annoying.

23. Established Member
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439
Is a perfect vacuum possible? Yes. In the sense that there is, somewhere (certainly a great many somewheres), a given volume of space, however small, which contains absolutely no matter.

You will doubtlessly find references stating that deep space contains x hydrogen atoms per cubic meter/kilometer/whatever. Within such a volume, the space between the two nearest particles, at that moment, is indeed a "perfect" vacuum. However, trying to identify a given volume of space as such is impractical, given unpredictable nature of the system.

24. I have studied magnetism, it is another ruse.
Gravity has yet to be proven or defined to my satisfaction in any scientific group.

I feel it is a lot 'slower' than most people believe.
I can't prove anything, but neither can they.
If it is near escape velocity, then science will have to change a theory or two.
If it is close to SOL, then it is still only 'close'.

We cannot define it until we understand the 'particles' that cause its properties.

25. Member
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Good answer Data Cable. But is there a void, or is it merely a space. Is it existent, or non-existent? Is that a definition of a vacuum? Voided space?

Pine.

"We cannot define it until we understand the 'particles' that cause its properties."

Very good point, but how is magnetism a ruse, as it is clearly a component, if not THE gluing component, and possibly showing that gravity is the fantasy?

Thank you, for now my mental juices are flowing.

26. Member
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It is often a misconception that space is a vacuum or simply empty. Space is a nearly perfect vacuum, even better than the best ones made in labs on earth, but it is not devoid of everything. The fact is that space is filled with tiny particles called cosmic dust and elements like hydrogen and helium. This applies for interstellar space also and all the previously mentioned particles make up what is known as the interstellar medium.

The interstellar medium is mainly made of lone hydrogen atoms. They do not even exist as pairs as they do on earth. I mentioned before that space is filled with hydrogen atoms. The actual density of hydrogen as it exist in interstellar space is on the average of about 1 atom per cubic centimeter. In the extremes, as low as 0.1 atom per cubic centimeter has been found in the space between the spiral arms and as high as 1000 atoms per cubic centimeter are known to exist near the galactic core.

The interstellar medium also contains cosmic dust. These particles are much bigger than hydrogen atoms. However, there are far fewer particles of cosmic dust than there are hydrogen atoms in the same volume of space. It is estimated that cosmic dust is 1000 times less common than hydrogen atoms in the interstellar medium.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/DaWeiCai.shtml

So, what is postulated in-between? What defines the void, and the space where particles are separated?

27. Member
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Put another way, in a flux of energetic particles, what are the spaces in between defined or realized as?

28. I suggest you correct your ways.

http://www.kuhmann.com/starstuff/Dust.htm

29. Established Member
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Maybe a true vacuum only exists between the branes, ref string theory?

30. FREEDOMROX,
You are arguing semantics. Neither Dr. Plait nor anyone else has said that space is an absolute vacuum. Space is a relative vacuum compared to conditions found on Earth.

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