bugs in space

[dodecahedron]

I know that astronauts lose bone density since their bones rot in microgravity environments.
What happens to arthropods and arachnids who have extended tours of duty in low earth orbit? Does their endoskeleton become thinner or do bugs simply not work that way?
Only posting here since it's space related. Surely it'll be moved to another board.

[astromark]

An experiment involving spiders was undertaken by NASA ( was it spiders ? ) Unfortunately that flight ended tragically. I would wager that some one here will expand on this answer...

[ABR.]

Here's a recent experiment involving tardigrades (water bears) in space. I don't think it really answers your question, though. I'm not sure what else has been done in space with arthropods. All the insects I study are a bit more...down to earth!

ETA: Hey a good excuse to use my tardigrade avatar!

[Jens]

An experiment involving spiders was undertaken by NASA ( was it spiders ? ) Unfortunately that flight ended tragically. I would wager that some one here will expand on this answer...

I don't think it was spiders. There was some experiment on the last Columbia flight, and it turned out that some of the creatures survived the reentry or something. I think it was nematodes or something like that. But I'll wager that somebody else will further expand!

[Ronald Brak]

Cockroaches have been hatched in space. I understand they seemed pretty normal, although there was some questions about whether microgravity had affected their development. I'm afraid I don't know the details. Apparently microgravity can affect the development of small animals shot into space, which I find rather surprising as gravity is such a tetchy effect compared to the nutty randomness inside a cell. (The cell is like a little factory, my matt metal posterior. It's more like a bunch of ants dragging a dead grasshopper to the nest.)

[PraedSt]

Good question. Bigelow took Madagascar hissing cockroaches up on both Genesis I and Genesis II. The latter also had ants and scorpions.

No idea what happened to them. One can only hope the cockroaches suffered a slow and painful death

[mugaliens]

An experiment involving spiders was undertaken by NASA ( was it spiders ? ) Unfortunately that flight ended tragically. I would wager that some one here will expand on this answer...

So, you're saying, that to date, all evidence points to the statistical liklihood that spiders, when introduced to zero-G conditions, will expire shortly thereafter by being burned up on reenetry?

Or was it the other disaster, so we might conclude that all spiders faced with the threat of zero-G have proven to expire in an explosion prior to reaching zero-G?

(I couldn't resist - the way you initially put it struck me as somewhat comical)

[galacsi]

Cockroaches have been hatched in space. I understand they seemed pretty normal, although there was some questions about whether microgravity had affected their development. I'm afraid I don't know the details. Apparently microgravity can affect the development of small animals shot into space, which I find rather surprising as gravity is such a tetchy effect compared to the nutty randomness inside a cell. (The cell is like a little factory, my matt metal posterior. It's more like a bunch of ants dragging a dead grasshopper to the nest.)

I found that : http://en.rian.ru/science/20080117/97179313.html

[PraedSt]

Off topic: What does this mean exactly Ronald?
'The cell is like a little factory, my matt metal posterior. It's more like a bunch of ants dragging a dead grasshopper to the nest.'

It sounds like it could be funny

[mugaliens]

Dragging dead grasshoppers takes a lot of energy. It's so much easier to simply kick them across a hold.

Of course, ant mounds tend to wander around quite a bit, too...

[Digix]

as I know bugs have very strong programs that are practically unchangeable

and exoskeleton is not alive so it cant change.
losing exoskeleton mass for bug is same as if your hairs suddenly become thinner


of course in case if many bug generations will be born is space because of evolution exoskeleton may become quite thin to save food on its growth

[John Mendenhall]

as I know bugs have very strong programs that are practically unchangeable

and exoskeleton is not alive so it cant change.
losing exoskeleton mass for bug is same as if your hairs suddenly become thinner


of course in case if many bug generations will be born is space because of evolution exoskeleton may become quite thin to save food on its growth

Avoid answering with speculation as if it were fact. If it is fact, please give references.

Regards, John M.

[Digix]

Bugs cannot alter exoskeleton because it is dead material, something like epoxy resin.
if bugs grow they must drop it and make new.

So it is theoretically impossible that skeleton will become thinner in some way.
I don't see even reason to do such experiment.

[mugaliens]

Digix, please take note, as this is what John (and most members on this board) were looking for, which includes links to supporting/substantiating information:

Endoskeletal bone tissue is constantly being absorbed and replenished via osteoclasts and osteoblasts. By contrast, the exoskeletal material of arthropods is usually comprised of a tough polymer such as chitin. As Wikipedia notes in its entry on Arthropod exoskeleton, "this external skeleton is moulted as the organism grows."

Thus, the skeleton may remain as is in microgravity, but only until it moults. When that happens, who knows the thickness of the next exoskeleton. And the exoskeleton isn't all chitin. Rather, it's roughly a 60/40 mix of protein and chitin, where the protein is a rubbery combination of silk-like and globular proteins.

It's during this moulting process that the arthropod grows, between shedding of it's old exoskelaton, and the hardening of it's new one.

For non-moulting animals, such as the tortoise, the shell is added to slowly, usually either at the ends, or in the case of turtles, from the joints between the solid plates which make up the shell. Due to the geomtry, these "joints" are all but inflexible. They exist only as a point from which new shell material is added which allows the turtles to grow. One exception is the hinged lower front and lower rear plates which allow the box turtle to completely retreat within it's shell.

Back to your post, Digix:

Bugs cannot alter exoskeleton because it is dead material, something like epoxy resin. if bugs grow they must drop it and make new. So it is theoretically impossible that skeleton will become thinner in some way.

As noted above, growth occurs each time moulting occurs, and that growth results in a new exoskeleton, so it is very theoretically possible that the new skeleton will be thinner.

I don't see even reason to do such experiment.

That's because you shot from the hip, giving your answer without having provided some reference as John suggested.

I didn't remember the correct answer to this until I looked it up in response to yours and John's posts. It's by looking up such references that we learn, often to the point where our post morphs from an errant point of view to a more accurate one.

No worries. Just next time, provide some references, and in so doing, you'll find what I've learned as a member of this board: I didn't know as much as I thought I did; I wasn't as accurate as I thought I was; there's a whole lot more out there to learn than I realized!

Personally, I find these three prospects rather exciting! As Robert A. Heinlein said, "Staying young requires the unceasing cultivation of the ability to unlearn old falsehoods."

Smart man, that Heinlein...

[Ronald Brak]

Off topic: What does this mean exactly Ronald?
'The cell is like a little factory, my matt metal posterior. It's more like a bunch of ants dragging a dead grasshopper to the nest.'

It sounds like it could be funny

Sorry, I just have a bee in my zero g bonnet about how some creationists, particularly those who talk about Intelligent Design, take the anology of the cell as a factory too far, so I provided another anology about ants which seemed more apt. The ants get the job done, but in a more random and less organized fashion than a factory floor.

[Ronald Brak]

I found that : http://en.rian.ru/science/20080117/97179313.html

Thanks for that.