F1 News

[PraedSt]

Any F1 fans here?

I'm an old Schumey fan who's been wandering around with a lost look on his face for the last year and a half.
Don't 'support' anyone now, but still watch the races.

4 days till the Japanese GP.
A preview here: http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...259515,00.html

Also, Ferrari go back to using a lollipop man. Heh.
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...257344,00.html

[Argos]

There used to be an F1 thread here. It havenīt made much a success though [which would be natural considering the majority of Americans]...

BTW, news account today that Bernie Ecclestone dreams of a Schumi come-back.

[PraedSt]

There used to be an F1 thread here. It havenīt made much a success though [which would be natural considering the majority of Americans]...

Thought that might be the case.
As for the Schumi story, I've heard many different versions over the last year, only to be disappointed each time. It's cruel! So now I try and tune them out with varying degrees of success.
But I note it's Renault this time. Interesting.

[Argos]

Iīve also heard that Alonso is going to land at Ferrari in 2010, supported by the Spanish bank Santander [which has emerged pretty strong after all the last weeksī turmoil]. Canīt vouch for the veracity of the talks, though.

[slang]

Yeah, I like F1. But the way FIA has been acting of late I get the impression that the F in it stands for Ferrari. It takes a lot of the fun out of it, IMHO.

[PraedSt]

But the way FIA has been acting of late I get the impression that the F in it stands for Ferrari

Heh. That's a common feeling. Although, to be fair, I think it was a Schumacher bias rather than just a Ferrari one. The last two seasons have just been a hangover, or a lagged response, from those days.

I loved the recent Ferrari news cycle though:

1. Pit stop shenanigans costs Massa victory in Singapore.
2. Ferrari President calls Singapore GP a circus.
3. Bernie thanks Ferrari for providing the clowns.
4. Ferrari go back to using the lollipop system.

[Parrothead]

No North American race, for the first time in more than 40 years, if things stand as scheduled, for next year. Montreal has been taken off and Abu Dhabi added. Would have liked to have seen Coulthard win a Driver's Championship, but he blew his chance when he had it, years ago.

I have been impressed this and last season, as the competitiveness has been better, in the post-Schumi years.

[PraedSt]

No North American race, for the first time in more than 40 years, if things stand as scheduled, for next year. Montreal has been taken off...

Yeah, I can't for the life of me understand that. And I'm trying to look at it from a Bernie (financial) point of view. The NA market is huge.

He's consistently failed to develop North America. One of his few missteps.


Some latest Coulthard news.
Bashing a journalist: http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?T...thard&id=44174

Also, I love these sorts of statements from sportsmen/teams.
'Ferrari targeting maximum points': http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,1895...261277,00.html
Just once, I'd like to hear someone say "We hope to get thrashed actually'.

Sorry for the solitary source (planetF1). I'll try and find some more. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be grateful.

[slang]

Heh. That's a common feeling. Although, to be fair, I think it was a Schumacher bias rather than just a Ferrari one. The last two seasons have just been a hangover, or a lagged response, from those days.

I don't think so, I think it's deeper rooted than that. "What would F1 be without Ferrari!" .. Honest?

I loved the recent Ferrari news cycle though:

1. Pit stop shenanigans costs Massa victory in Singapore.
2. Ferrari President calls Singapore GP a circus.
3. Bernie thanks Ferrari for providing the clowns.
4. Ferrari go back to using the lollipop system.

That is hilarious, yeah

[PraedSt]

An update on the Canadian GP axing.

The provisional calendar for 2009 contains 18 races, rather than the expected 20.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...8/10/8483.html

This prompted speculation that Canada might be saved, and that this episode was typical Bernie negotiating tactics.

Apparently not, according to 'a Canadian close to F1's governing body'. Canada is definitely out.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...08151706.shtml

I suspect, as with most things Bernie, we're not going to know one way or another until one week before the start of the season.

[Argos]

Yeah, I like F1. But the way FIA has been acting of late I get the impression that the F in it stands for Ferrari. It takes a lot of the fun out of it, IMHO.

If youīre referring to the stewardsī decision to punish Hamilton [Spa race], well, he clearly took advantage of the chicane. The decision was correct, IMO. I donīt see any clear FIAīs preference for Ferrari lately.

[PraedSt]

In order to head off scrapping

A driver's (Coulthard) perspective on the Lewis/Kimi incident. Basically he says yes, and no.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?T...thard&id=43932

[slang]

If youīre referring to the stewardsī decision to punish Hamilton [Spa race], well, he clearly took advantage of the chicane. The decision was correct, IMO. I donīt see any clear FIAīs preference for Ferrari lately.

I do disagree about that one, but wasn't referring specifically to it. The better grip situation was obvious, and Hamilton would have overtaken him anyway, and he very well may have had an opportunity in corner 1 without the alledged tow. Besides, we hear all this talk about Ferrari designing their aerodynamics such that driving right behind them disturbs airflow, also speaking against the 'tow' argument. Perhaps it was a right decision strictly according to the rules, but IMHO it was a very unfair race deciding decision.

But it's also that Massa situation in the race before, where he almost caused a crash in the pitlane. Even touching the white line on exiting the pits means drive-through penalty because it's dangerous, and his almost disaster gets dealt with through a fine? I admit I don't know how it would be dealt with if a McLaren would have done it, but pitlane incidents are usually dealt with harshly, especially during the race. Fines only in training, IIRC.

But the one that really ticked me off was FIA adding an observer in the last race last year (Brasil ), to prevent any funny business by McLaren to favor Hamilton or Alonso for getting the championship. But Raikkonen also had a shot at the championship. Massa quite obviously let him pass, giving him the extra points needed for the championship. Why an observer with McLaren to prevent stuff like that, but none at Ferrari?

Ah well, I remember many more times thinking "how can they get away with that!", but can't list them of the top of my head. Maybe it's confirmation bias on my end.

[KaiYeves]

I saw this thread and thought first of tornadoes and then of Saturn Vs. Why do so many things have to have the same abbreviations?

[Parrothead]

Slang: There was the case of Alonso getting hit with a, very questionable, 5 place grid penalty, for "blocking" Massa in qualifying at Monza, in '06. Call me a skeptic, I figure had Ferrari been in McLaren's shoes last year, the FIA would not have dinged Ferrari with a $100m fine for spying.

[PraedSt]

There used to be an F1 thread here. It havenīt made much a success though

Argos was right. Apart from Ferrari bashing, there doesn't seem to be much interest
I'll be closing this thread soon, if that's ok with everyone. Thanks

[Parrothead]

Ferrari does deserve some of the bashing it gets. They did make a mockery of things, at times, while they were dominating F1. Some of those issues were dealt with. Unfortunately for the team, there is a perceived bias, as they seem to receive lighter penalties when caught. Hamilton could have waited longer before retaking the lead from Raikkonen. Part of the problem was Raikkonen did slide a bit wide at La Source hairpin, giving that opening which Hamilton did use to pass. Would it have been enough to negate any advantage from cutting the previous chicane? In Valencia, Massa received a fine for almost causing a collision in the pitlane. Not a drive-through or a 25 second penalty (which is the penalty in the books), which would have dropped him from first to third. That is what can get infuriating. It may not be the team's fault, but it can seem to taint results in Ferrari's favour. Perhaps the FIA should have a permanent set of stewards, travelling from race to race. It may not solve all the problems, but it may resolve some of the problems.

The solution after Spa, now someone must wait until after the next corner, before attempting an overtaking manouever, if they are deemed to have cut a corner and given back the position. Uhm, what if there is a kink or two and a long straight, what may be considered the next corner could be some way off.

The past two seasons have been wonderful, actually having a number of different winners. Are there still problems, yup. An example being pitting under safety cars. As, happened in Singapore, a safety car coming out, closing the pits as teams are hitting their refuelling windows, can shake things up. Some may be forced to violate the rules and pit, to keep from running out of fuel on track. Once again, people start talking about looking at rules, how about fixing it with one rule change. Go back to fuelling cars for the entire race. Let them pit for tires or other issues; Or leave the rule, as is. It's a part of racing that incidents happen that call for a safety car to be deployed, if it happens around a refuelling window, so be it, accept the penalty for violating the rule, or run out of fuel on track.

Some of the newer tracks are an improvement over the "sanitized" tracks which have little room for overtaking.

Mt Fuji has some great views, but I think I still prefer Suzuka's layout.

[sarongsong]

November 2, 2008
Massa wins Brazilian GP, while Hamilton clinches F1 title

[PraedSt]

Ha! Yes, I'm not a happy bunny.

But credit where credit is due: Lewis.

[cosmocrazy]

Well done Lewis!!

A well earned and deserved world title!

Now lets hope Lewis goes on to be the greatest driver of all time! As great a driver as Schumacher was, he was also a dirty cheat and for me this marred his career, along with the favoritism towards Ferrari shown by the Governing body of F1.

[mugaliens]

I enjoy watching, but don't know much about the races, other than the aerodynamics part of it.

It's sort of cool to see others here really into something about which I'm fairly ignorant!

[novaderrik]

The solution after Spa, now someone must wait until after the next corner, before attempting an overtaking manouever, if they are deemed to have cut a corner and given back the position. Uhm, what if there is a kink or two and a long straight, what may be considered the next corner could be some way off.

this is why Americans don't like F1- they have rules about when and where you can pass on the track- that aint racing, that's a really expensive parade that goes by at over 200mph.

[captain swoop]

the only real rule about when and where to pass is if the safey car is out or there is a yellow flag out.

Hamiltons mistake was passing by cutting a corner, not allowed in any set of rules usualy.

[Parrothead]

A great finish to the season. One heck of a race. I felt for Coulthard finishing off his career at the first corner. The excitement of the final few laps, wow. The joy of Massa and the Ferrari team, only to have Hamilton regain fifth, to secure the DC. Ferrari still kept the Constructor's title.

An exciting season, a number of different drivers winning races. Vettel winning at Monza, giving a car with Minardi DNA a win. He along with Kubica are young drivers that could very well have a good future ahead of them in F-1. Grooved tires are history. I hope they don't go as far as bringing in standard engines, as has been discussed.

The Canadian GP may still make it onto the calendar. The start of the next season can't come soon enough!

[novaderrik]

the only real rule about when and where to pass is if the safey car is out or there is a yellow flag out.

Hamiltons mistake was passing by cutting a corner, not allowed in any set of rules usualy.

as screwed up as NASCAR is these days, their method of dealing with these things is much better than F1- you go "out of bounds" and make a pass, you get a black flag and get sent to your pit for either a stop and go penalty or get held there for a lap. either way, you are giving up a ton of positions- certainly more than you gained by trying to cheat in the first place. if you pass under yellow, then i think you are sent to the back of the pack for the restart.
NASCAR is pretty much run like every local dirt track in the country- and for the most part, the (real) racers kind of self police themselves and don't whine when things don't go their way.

[PraedSt]

As great a driver as Schumacher was, he was also a dirty cheat and for me this marred his career, along with the favoritism towards Ferrari shown by the Governing body of F1.

The first third of that sentence, earns you forgiveness for the final two thirds...

I enjoy watching, but don't know much about the races, other than the aerodynamics part of it.

My favourite part, although it's gone a bit OTT last couple of seasons.

I felt for Coulthard finishing off his career at the first corner...Vettel winning at Monza, giving a car with Minardi DNA a win...The Canadian GP may still make it onto the calendar.

That was sad, that Coulthard bit. The whole season hasn't been kind.
Vettel at Monza was a highlight. Young lad is a star. Hope he gets a Ferrari drive...
Good luck for Canada!

you go "out of bounds" and make a pass, you get a black flag and get sent to your pit for either a stop and go penalty or get held there for a lap. either way, you are giving up a ton of positions- certainly more than you gained by trying to cheat in the first place.

I like the sounds of that. (Although couldn't have applied in that particular Lewis/Raikkonen incident)


And lastly, another Ferrari test for Rossi. Hmm...

[Nicolas]

In F1, when you go "out of bounds" and make a pass, you also get a stop and go penalty, or a drive through penalty. Either way, you are giving up a ton of positions - certainly more than you gained by trying to cheat in the first place. The drivers self-police in that sense that luckily a black flag hardly ever is needed.

The only "problem" I have with F1 rules is that it sometimes takes too long for the penalty decision to me made, resulting in shifts in results after the race has finished. That should be avoided.

That said, I had a great time laughing at people who claim that "vettel shouldn't have passed Hamilton". Guys, it's a race. Passing people is the whole point, also in the last lap of the last race...

[sarongsong]

this is why Americans don't like F1- they have rules about when and where you can pass on the track- that aint racing...

...and turning left on an even surface for 500 miles is?

[slang]

That said, I had a great time laughing at people who claim that "vettel shouldn't have passed Hamilton". Guys, it's a race. Passing people is the whole point, also in the last lap of the last race...

Heh, yeah. I do have my reservations (at least until I can see the situation again) about the lapped driver (Kubica? Heidfeld?) that got into that Hamilton/Vettel fight trying to unlap himself. IMHO he should have stayed out of that, especially at that point in the race with the championship at stake for others.

I'm irritated by people complaining that Hamilton drove 'cowardly'. I'm sure that had he raced full power taking every risk as usual, and his engine would have blown, then the same people would probably complain that he was stupid to take so much risk with an engine that had already run one race.

I'm just glad that luck was on Hamilton's side this race, like it was on Raikkonen's last year's race.

[Argos]

That said, I had a great time laughing at people who claim that "vettel shouldn't have passed Hamilton". Guys, it's a race. Passing people is the whole point, also in the last lap of the last race...

I canīt understand why Hamilton should be preferred. Massaīs winning would also represent a "change", a breath of fresh air.

It was a thrilling finish. If it wasnīt for the absurd Ferrariīs mistakes along the season, Massa would be the man. I think heīs driving more consistently than his counterpart.

Anyways, kudos to Hamilton. Canīt wait for the Australian GP.