There are a lot of jittery folks today. Anyone else extremely concerned?
Established Member
There are a lot of jittery folks today. Anyone else extremely concerned?
Established Member
I don't know.
It's not Black here ... it's a Bright day .. because it's PAYDAY !
Order of Kilopi
I expect the markets here to take a dive, but they'll recover.
Established Member
Globalisation is a grand idea, some financial institution in the USA declares bankruptcy and half way around the world in a lowly third world country the markets go crazy.
Yes we are also feeling the effects down here...
Established Member
Re-post/double post.
Order of Kilopi
We are feeling some effects down here in the form of a slight devaluation of stocks. However, in general the economy is growing as usual. WeŽve had 6% growth for the forth month in a row, and there is no sign of a slowdown. Our economy relies heavily on the internal market, in which power of purchase is steadily rising, along with foreign investment. Economists here are unanimous in that weŽll not feel a big impact of a possible US/Europe recession.
Established Member
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4526#more
and there's this
Established Member
No it’s not “Black Monday” it should be called “Lights On Monday”.
It’s about time some of these companies and their CEOs feel the effects of their actions. The heads of Fannie and Freddie and Lehman are pounding the pavement for new positions as they should be. Lets hope some of this mud sticks to their resumes instead of running off as it did in the past. It seems the new generation of financial big wigs are learning the lessons of the older generation.
In the long run things will be better for all of us.
Established Member
Yes, I am also extremely concerned. I don't know all the details about how the real estate markets work, but it does seem like there is absolutely no reason to buy a property right now, since it is very likely that the same property will be worth far less next month or next year. For the last 18 months, more and more became worth less than the mortgages, and as a result, some people simply walked away from the mortgage. I don't see this changing in the near future. As this puts a sever damper on the economy, we will soon see a period of extended deflation. Once we get to a situation where people expect lower prices to continue, then economic investment (purchases of new equipment, buildings, etc) will cease because it is cheaper to wait than to invest. Thus starts the viscious cycle known as an economic depression. I think we are close to one already. Whether it is as bad as the one in the 1930's remains to be seen.
Established Member
Anyone with any sense has given up on the U.S. as a global concern and has now concentrated their wealth in Euros or Yen.
Order of Kilopi
Some of those CEO's and CFO's should be "pounding the pavement" of the prison exercise yard, during their one hour a day out of the cell.Originally Posted by samkent
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
Established Member
Clearly you don't understand the point of the judicial system.
It's there to put the poor in prison, and only fine the rich - if it is absolutely unavoidable that it has to do so.
Someone can get put away for 20 years for stealing $500.
But someone who steals $500 million will rarely see a single day inside a cell.
Member
My high school history teacher used to say that a depression the scale of the 1930s would be impossible today because of all the regulation that has developed since. It seems like new rules are in place due to energy problems and globalization, among other things, so I'm not so certain. It does seem like some signs of a depression have been building up for the last couple years.
Honored Member
Depends on your horizon. In the long run we'll all be dead.In the long run things will be better for all of us.
Order of Kilopi
"I'm melting, I'm melting! O-o-oh, my 401(k)'s, my real estate! What a world, what a world! O!"
Edited to add: Fair is fair. Because of this thread I can't get Steely Dan's "Black Friday" out of my mind.
Order of Kilopi
**************
That was true......untill some people started to drive their philosophy with slogans like " Government is the problem. And like stupid sheep, too many believed what the jelly bean guy told them. This is what you get.
It really is too bad. Next time, eat your vegetables.
Voltaire
Order of Kilopi
Oh I understand it. That's why I said "should". When the CFO of the company I work for conspired with a government official to defraud the nation of hundreds of millions of dollars, they got only a few months each. Of course they also got fired, which to them was probably worse.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
Order of Kilopi
I had four hours of very hard homework, so it seemed pretty black, but that's just me.
Honored Member
In fairness, banquo, we'll know more on Tuesday. Then we can watch professional coin flippers in action once again.
At 10PM PST, the Nikkei and Hang Seng markets are down 5 and 6%.
Established Member
When I saw the headline, all I could think was, "There goes our retirement." I'm glad my husband and I aren't thinking about retiring anytime soon.
Order of Kilopi
Event horizon---what event horizon?
Established Member
markets open in a few minutes
Order of Kilopi
Our paper today headlined it as "Bleak Monday". A bit milder than black.
Honored Member
And if we're bad we'll all go to Heck when we kick off.
Order of Kilopi
NINJA...No income,no job or assets!
And they got mortgages!
Well I suppose if the World goes mad around
you it seems normal.
Strange but I thought buisness people normally
try bamboosling Joe Public into giving up their
cash. I did not know big institutions did it
to each other.
Collaterised debt obligation!
Asset backed security!
etc ect..my aunt Fanny...
Order of Kilopi
I am.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
Order of Kilopi
Here's an article from way back in 1999 about this very thing:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...15/ai_57748148
There was strong political pressure behind this easy credit, as existing standards were seen to be discriminatory against minorities. You'll see various loudmouths in political office pointing fingers and screaming "predatory lending", when they themselves were encouraging what they now call predatory lending.
Anyone with any sense knew this day would come, but back then everyone was flying high and didn't worry about anything beyond the next quarterly report. Here's one from 2003:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...gewanted=print
There was proposal to tighten up regulation of Fannie and Freddie. Note the quotes from some of the loudmouths that it would hurt affordable housing. Those reforms were killed with the help of both parties (key members heavily lobbied by Fannie and Freddie).
Again, they all knew this was coming years ago, but did nothing.
-Richard
Order of Kilopi
We know who all lost their money, but who (beyond the execs) all gained, and by what mechanism(s)?
Order of Kilopi
A lot of people thought they were making money..... on paper. Then the balloon deflated. And many time the books were cooked to make it look even better on paper, especially for the CEO and other big shot executives whose pay was tied to earnings.
There will be investigations. IIRC, the Lehman chief got about a $100M golden parachute for his trouble of running his company in the ground. Much of that was in stock, and the question to investigate is if he dumped it before it went belly up. If so that could land him jail.
-Richard
Order of Kilopi
Yes, the media is quite good at spotlighting the main players' individual excesses, but are there also un-named individuals, or whole companies or organizations that profited from this?
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