Astrology = Garbage

[gzhpcu]

One of the foremost astrologers, Robert Hand, uses the term "symbols"..
http://www.amazon.com/Horoscope-Symb.../dp/0914918168

The traditional astrological classifications are thousands of years old. Modern astrologers like Liz Greene state: "the connections between certain of Jung's models of the psyche and certain astrological classifications which I made when writing this book have been vindicated to me many times over in the last decade"...Relating foreward, page xii.

So there does not seem to be any methodical procedure, just astroloigers exchanging information and experiences.

[HenrikOlsen]

I may be wrong here, but I think Jeff is really asking for the names of a couple of books that tell about these symbols and would be used by a starting astrologer to learn the basics.

Otherwise the real answer to the question "where do they get the connections from?" would be "they made them up or read about them from other people who made them up".

[gzhpcu]

I may be wrong here, but I think Jeff is really asking for the names of a couple of books that tell about these symbols and would be used by a starting astrologer to learn the basics.

Otherwise the real answer to the question "where do they get the connections from?" would be "they made them up or read about them from other people who made them up".

If that is the question, then a book like the Robert Hand book I cited would be a starting point. Or an older book (for example by Rudyhar). There are many books defining the basic symbols. As far as I can tell, afterwards they extrapolate.

[Jeff Root]

Yes. I want to know: 1) What references do astrologers use to
interpret the significance of celestial alignments, and 2) How was
the information in those references generated?

As a wild guess, perhaps the primary income of astrologers is
tuition from students trying to learn how to do readings. So the
only way to learn astrology is to pay to be taught by an astrologer.
No references wanted.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[gzhpcu]

From what I have seen, someone who wants to become an astrologer, just starts reading up and interpreting charts. They search on the internet for astrologers giving courses. There are practically no diplomas given for the subject.

[HenrikOlsen]

Yes. I want to know: 1) What references do astrologers use to
interpret the significance of celestial alignments,

Books by other astrologers, plus what they themselves make up

and 2) How was the information in those references generated?

It was gleaned from books by other astrologers, plus what the authors themselves make up.

[gzhpcu]

This is how Robert Hand became an astrologer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Hand

Hand began studying astrology in 1960 at the age of 17. His father, Wilfred Hand, taught him the basics of casting astrological charts and claimed to be a specialist in Heliocentric astrology and Cosmobiology; his father also claimed to have used astrological cycles for use in forecasting the financial and stock markets. In 1972 Rob began practicing astrology as a full-time profession.

They just start doing it...

[Strange]

his father also claimed to have used astrological cycles for use in forecasting the financial and stock markets

So, presumably he was fantastically wealthy?

[Gillianren]

Shoot, you can get software which will run a chart for you and tell you what it all means, and you've been able to for twenty years or more. You can probably go into any New Age bookstore/Pagan supply store (like a Christian store, but more wands and Tarot cards) and get books about astrology. You can go to your local library--I don't remember the call number, but they're pretty close to the beginning.

[HenrikOlsen]

Dewey? 133.5

Suitably right next to black magic (133.4)

The 133 group is occultism and supernatural.

[Gillianren]

I was pretty sure it was somewhere in there. When you go into the Olympia library, it's right along the front, on the same row of shelves as trivia, library science, and computer science. There aren't a lot of books in any one category until you hit about the 300s.

[astromark]

With a malicious disregard for the sensitivity of any astrologer. I will confess to being a party to a deliberate deception.

That this deception was conducted four a number of months without ever being challenged or corrected. Is 'interesting'...

It was some twenty years ago...

I was involved in the publication of a newspaper. I worked in the compositors room of a major daily paper.

We quite deliberately altered the content of the astrological horoscopes and we kept doing it for more than six months.

With wreckless disregard and absolutely no responsibility... We did it for the fun of it.

We changed the whole things structure and imagined most of it. Whose birthday is it this week...Lets screw em...

The racing pages of the paper were the source of many of the poetic rants we had fun with... like...

'Saturn rising will feed your needs this week'... 'caution the setting of Mars as your love life will crumble'...

Not a single complaint. Not one. No astrologer ever came forward with a point... not one.

and I should note that Mars was in the early evening sky. Not with the Sun... did they not look ?

We actually only reverted back to the wire feed because we tired of the game... shame on me...

Jeff makes a good point... from where do the standards come. Who controls the rules. Are there any ?

If that offends you... sorry... not in the slightest.

[gzhpcu]

We quite deliberately altered the content of the astrological horoscopes and we kept doing it for more than six months.

With wreckless disregard and absolutely no responsibility... We did it for the fun of it.

We changed the whole things structure and imagined most of it. Whose birthday is it this week...Lets screw em...

The racing pages of the paper were the source of many of the poetic rants we had fun with... like...

'Saturn rising will feed your needs this week'... 'caution the setting of Mars as your love life will crumble'...

Not a single complaint. Not one. No astrologer ever came forward with a point... not one.

I suppose because there is a certain code of honor between fellow astrologers...

[astromark]

OMG they think I'm one.... how depressing Lol...

[Jeff Root]

That's beautiful, Mark.

Has enough time gone by yet that you'd be willing to tell the world (us)
what newspaper it was, and during what period your mischief was done?
How many people were involved? Who started it?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Gillianren]

My school newspaper ran "Mayan Cosmology" in place of a Sumerian-based horoscope. You can't prove by me they didn't make that up, either; it was the thing I was least fussy about proofreading, because I hadn't found evidence anyone else cared about it any more than I did. It wasn't even pithy and entertaining.

[pzkpfw]

With a malicious disregard for the sensitivity of any astrologer. I will confess to being a party to a deliberate deception.

...

I had a project manager once who'd worked in the U.K. for a few years - before she'd got into I.T. herself. One of her jobs was for a fairly large newspaper (I forget the name, but remember that it was one of the "big ones") - doing the horoscopes. Nope, she was not an astrologer or anything, her job was to "make stuff up" the way you did!

---

We had a case in N.Z a few years back... a lady rang one of those $2.99 per minute horoscope telephone lines. Then her Mother (different "star sign") did the same - and got the same message.

Turned out the same pre-recorded "predictions" were read out - regardless of which "star sign" you choose when you rang the number.

Amazingly the operators of the "service" apologised for the "oversight"*; and continued in "business".

(* they didn't predict this issue would arise?!)

[astromark]

I am not alone. Now I feel vindicated ... It was so easy Jeff... NZ capitals, The Dominion. 1978.

From just this last few postings... This astrology thing has some credibility issues... and is Garbage as well.

[astromark]

Is this good science ?

That the position of the sun in relation to the zodiacal sign it is in... at the date of your berth could in any way

shape or govern what personality or type of person you become...?

or

What type of temperaments you were exposed to in the last month of pregnancy and the next five years.... Case dismissed.

[Jeff Root]

That could easily be the way the Universe works. It isn't immediately
obvious that it isn't how the Universe works.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[ToSeek]

In my more credulous younger days, I read a fair amount about astrology, and pretty much all the astrologers I read were highly contemptuous of newspaper astrology columns. On the other hand, if they were that upset, you'd think they'd do more about it - I mean, if there were a regular faux-science column that showed up in the paper every day, there'd be outrage from every professional society in the country.

[HenrikOlsen]

Is this good science ?
That the position of the sun in relation to the zodiacal sign it is in... at the date of your berth could in any way
shape or govern what personality or type of person you become...?
or
What type of temperaments you were exposed to in the last month of pregnancy and the next five years.... Case dismissed.

I wouldn't find it overly surprising to find a correlation between aspects of personality and time of year of birth, when adjusted for latitude of living, in that light is known to affect mood and to some extent brain chemistry and, for latitudes farther from the equator, the difference in light experienced at different phases of early development can be vast.

This effect would be expected to be more expressed the farther from the equator one grew up in the formative years and follow seasons rather that dates, so offset by half a year for the southern hemisphere.

I haven't seen any horoscopes or heard of any astronomers who try to use such a measure for anything, or more precicely I've heard of none who offset the "meaning" of the sun sign by half a year for southern hemisphere people.

[pzkpfw]

In my more credulous younger days, I read a fair amount about astrology, and pretty much all the astrologers I read were highly contemptuous of newspaper astrology columns. On the other hand, if they were that upset, you'd think they'd do more about it - I mean, if there were a regular faux-science column that showed up in the paper every day, there'd be outrage from every professional society in the country.

The problem for the astrologers is that their outrage against the newspaper horoscopes would have have to be backed up by proof.

I can imagine a group of "real" astrologers suing a newspaper astrologer - and the judge asks "so, now prove that your astrology is 'real'..."!

[gzhpcu]

I wouldn't find it overly surprising to find a correlation between aspects of personality and time of year of birth, when adjusted for latitude of living, in that light is known to affect mood and to some extent brain chemistry and, for latitudes farther from the equator, the difference in light experienced at different phases of early development can be vast.

This effect would be expected to be more expressed the farther from the equator one grew up in the formative years and follow seasons rather that dates, so offset by half a year for the southern hemisphere.

I haven't seen any horoscopes or heard of any astronomers who try to use such a measure for anything, or more precicely I've heard of none who offset the "meaning" of the sun sign by half a year for southern hemisphere people.

Looks like you found a market niche... You can start your own astrology school...

[HenrikOlsen]

Likely not really "mystic" enough to be much appealing, and probably less of an influence than something like how many siblings you have and the age and gender combinations amongst the siblings.
Something which I don't see Astrologers use either.

[astromark]

Taking it all with a pinch ( bucket ) of salt...

'Tell me how does the sunshine hours and solar strength change from a equatorial dwelling Malaysian tribesman

compare with a Nanuit of northern Canada ? ( Natives )

In regard to the manor of ones temperament... and or intelligence...

How would we know ? How would we dare to make assumptions of intellect...

I can imagine many other attributes effects like warmth., affection, nurturing, and diversity of food available... Parenting skills...

It is time that all things astrology related were put into the skip bin and eliminated from our historic records.. Its an embarrassment.

Looking at these contributions... there is little regard and support for it... Madmen and lunatics aside...mark of NZ

[Swift]

Weird Al's take on all of this

[Gillianren]

Actually, my friends find that one a little alarming. I'm a Sagittarius, you see.

[astromark]

Thank you swift... I knew I could count on you to provide me with a link of some relevance... So thats it then... DOOMED...