Member
Wel it only took me 2,392 times of watching my Contact DVD before this thought hit me.
With all the doubt surrounding Ellies trip and her supposed lack of evidence, what is never brought up in the film is an explination for the chair and harness being ripped up from its bolting and crushed, and how that could have happened just from a mere fall into a net.
At the very least, it certainly would have been considered a serious structural error.
Order of Kilopi
Well, and there's also the issue of the recorder and its 18 hours of static that they address. Actually, to me this is a slight flaw in what I'd consider the finest space movie ever made. We make contact with aliens, and then the government covers stuff up, just like all the conspiracy theorists claim they do.Originally Posted by BA Fan MikeM
Member
Absolutley Greg, I agree with you 100% and I've pretty much worn the DVD out myself. I omitted the 18 hours of static because that issue they did address. Which not coincidentally happened just before she got '45 brand new radio telescopes'Well, and there's also the issue of the recorder and its 18 hours of static that they address. Actually, to me this is a slight flaw in what I'd consider the finest space movie ever made.
Established Member
Actually I think the ending was rather complete with the conspiracy and the trial and everything...
The only flaw in the film is probably the opening scene and its numerous errors (ie. flipped eagle, retarded light speed, etc.)... although this film still remain one of the best on my list.
Honored Member
I remember having a problem with it, but it's been a while. In the hearings near the end, didn't someone ask her if she couldn't be sure the message was coming from a satellite instead of deep space? I would think the lack of parallax shift would pretty much kibosh that.
Or did I miss something?
Established Member
Yes. You missed the fact that probably 60 percent of the entire population have no idea what "parsec" or "parallax" are; while the other 40 percent do not speak English. Why do you think rumurs like "galileo is going to implode the universe" and "planet X will bring Elvis back" can survive on the internet; the most used medium of mass communication?
Established Member
The interesting thing here is this was also mentioned in Contact the novel, which is probably where the film got the idea. Moviemakers tend to be scientifically illiterate, but I thought it odd that Sagan used this in his "conspiracy" plot. Especially since early on he mentioned how you could confirm the signal was from Vega by its movement in the sky.didn't someone ask her if she couldn't be sure the message was coming from a satellite instead of deep space? I would think the lack of parallax shift would pretty much kibosh that.
Established Member
Contact is now a bit fuzzy for me but...
How is it that all this super-advanced technology - the likes of which could only be described as completely mind-blowing and unearthly - how could this staggering knowledge be downloaded from space, built and then have people not believe its first passenger - whatever she had to say?
Skeptic: "Yeah, we just built something with technology from a million years into the future but you say you saw a little green man (or whatever)? That's unbelievable!"
RBG
Established Member
Remember, they suggested it was all made up by S.R. Hadden
Established Member
Saw the movie, read the book but I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember who SR Hadden was.
If you mean he/she made it ALL up, that would be impossible due to the unbelievable wealth of advanced technology & procedures that would be available for analysis.
RBG
Established Member
Hadden was the technological genius responsible for getting the second one built, in the movie. He might've had a little chance for faking things, don't you think?
Established Member
Right, so the idea was that the technology itself wasn't faked by Hadden -just the ride, which he tried to fake since it looked like it all wasn't going to work (?) Or was it even thought that Hadden was genious enough to have designed fantastic other-wordly technology? (Pardon my, oh what's it called? Alzheimers.)
I still find it strange and somewhat "unreal" that all the obvious & advanced alien technology and the conclusions that naturally could be expected were simply dismissed with everyone going back to their 9-5 work day & bagged lunch.
RBG
Honored Member
I wonder if there was satirical intent. "Since I just can't believe it, it cannot be true." The incredulity argument.
Order of Kilopi
I think there had to be some end to the story. I agree with the issues but if they were covered properly, we might not have a film with a decent Hollywood ending.....
options are
Happy (preferred)
Sad (never liked)
Frustration with unanswered questions and possibilities for sequel (Smell the cash)
Member
Also remember that there was an entire sub-text of belief that Contact was going after as well. IIRC, Arroway and Joss had had discussions about why Joss believed in God when there was no objective proof for his existence (or something along those lines). The upshot turned out to be that Arroway needed to see something to believe it. Well, she got that, but no one else saw what she did. So now, she's in the position of believing based on 'faith', at least to others and she has no objective proof.
Now, if they had left it at that, that would have been a great ending, leading to much discussion. But they went and ruined it by showing that there was, indeed, 18 hours of static on the tape, which pretty much, in my mind, backed up everything Arroway had to say.
I think every piece of objective evidence was involved in the cover up which is why things don't seem to mesh. Of course, its been several years since I've seen the movie so I could be wrong....
Order of Kilopi
=D>
Nice to see someone else had the same reaction to that scene I did. Practically ruined the whole movie for me. They should have left the audience with the same "Do I believe it without truth?" and "Was it just imagination?" questions Arroway was left with.
I've never read the book Contact - was it that way in the book, too?
Member
In the book, it's a team of 5 people who ride the machine and come back. And no one believes them. They each perceived things through their own eyes and had slightly differing accounts. But still, it is more believable to me for them to discount one person's story than 5 people's. One improvement the movie made over the book.
I don't think the "18 hrs of static" thing was in the book. (It's been a while since I read it)
Established Member
What makes you think the 18hrs of static mean anything? For all we know it could be just some sort fluke caused by the strong EM radiation generated by the device. I mean, most clocks reset after a blackout, you don't take that as evidence that you've travelled through time do you?
Order of Kilopi
It wasn't just a clock set to the wrong time. It was a recorder that actually recorded 18 hours worth of data - useless data, but 18 hours of it nonetheless.
And regardless, the only reason for the scene to be in the movie would be to let the viewers know that it really happened.
Established Member
The book has the 18 hours of static as well as several verifiable statements by those on the trip (new forms of mathematics, new astronomical observations, something about human psychology, I think). But you really should read the book. There's a lot more going on in the book, and I don't want to ruin it. It is very, very, very good. In my not so humble opinion.
I think the 18 hours was absolutely necessary. From what I understand, it was exactly the amount of time it would have taken her to travel some distance through that type of wormhole (or several, as the case may be). Also, the telemetry from the spacecraft flickered out for some fraction of a second when it hit the singularity, just the right amount of time for whatever it was to happen.
The whole point is that you shouldn't have to believe. If someone makes a claim, they should have proof to back it up. There was proof about what Arroway did, but someone wasn't letting it out to serve his political purposes. And people believed her anyway, which says something about the power of belief. Remember who wrote this book (and assisted in the screenplay, until his death). He wouldn't leave something like that hanging. But he leaves something even more fundamental hanging in the book. I won't say what, and hopefully noone else will either.
Go read Contact now. Right now!
Established Member
Yes! Read the book. It is one of my all time favorites. I loved the movie but it paled to the story told in the book. And several things are changed around, added and eliminated. Kind of what happens to most good books when translated to film. :-?
Edited to add: The ending in the book is far more interesting and thought provoking.
Order of Kilopi
I could not help but feel the book and the movie were complete wastes of print. The book to me was fantastic until they returned, then I just could not wrap my mind around how an extrasolar civilization would just waste another race's time by pulling that. If you were going to establish some level of communication with another species, why would you do it in such an easily dismissable method? Why take a being from one world and make them your de facto ambassador and then put them in a position where they are completely discreditable? Perhaps human civilization is not ready for full contact, but if you're going to say hi, jeez, at least make a demonstable impression. That whole 'small steps' routine was a total copout. This one went in the garbage can and Cosmos right after. It totally ruined me on Sagan.
Order of Kilopi
I agree, make a big impression. Like blowing up Neptune. That would get my attention!
Established Member
What didn't you like about Cosmos? Was it the hardback that you threw away?
Established Member
Well, they're aliens. They're not obligated to think like us. But actually, I think your disgust is totally misplaced on such a fine film and book, you should have saved it for the truly trashy movies like "Event Horizon" or "Armageddon."ops:
Order of Kilopi
No, they aren't obligated to think like us, but if they want to communicate with us, it's a pretty good idea. Otherwise they may accidentally end up declaring war or committing attrocities.
Established Member
Reguarding the argument on the 18hr of static recording as shown in the movie:
My point was that the device was digital; which means you don't have to record in real time. Take for example a music CD, one can burn a CD in 5 minutes and have an hour worth of data to listen; perhaps the same can be done to the recording unit Arroway was wearing. The idea behind such argument is that if you truly believe that she did not go through a wormhole or did not visit any extraterrestrial civilizations then there are always counter explanations despite the evidence.
This idea was explored in the movie as the concept of "faith": Arroway was asked whether or not she believed in God and she replied that as a scientist she only believes in emperical evidence, but even the most precise experiment can produce faulty results. So the scene in question is, I believe, a further examination of the difference between absolute truth and facts.
You know what? I have no idea what I've just said...
Honored Member
I've never read the book. Not exactly sure why not: I'll pick it up from time to time and think "Too thick". (This is a problem I've found with much recent fiction. Too thick).
And I did enjoy the movie. But the 18 minutes of static (or hours) zinger: that was pure Twilight Zone. I was expecting Rod Serling to step out and do the epilogue.
Established Member
You say that like that's a bad thing.
Honored Member
Not at all! I'm an Orignal Zone Viewer. Had to convince my parents to let me stay up to watch.
But that was the deliberate TZ style. Short, straight and a burn at the end-like knocking back a shot. I didn't like the way it wove into the ending of the movie. Not even saying it was bad-just didn't like it, personally.
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