Is it time to ditch those old Latin genitives?

[Eroica]

I think I killed another thread stone dead by raising this point, but here goes.

Reading Bad Astronomy the other day, I noticed that Phil refers on more than one occasion to Sigma Octans, rather than the strictly correct Sigma Octantis, and I got to thinking, "Maybe he's onto something. Isn't it about time we ditched all those old Latin genitives? I mean, who takes Latin these days? And who in their right mind could guess that the genitive case of Canes Venatici is Canum Venaticorum?"

I always found that combination of Greek and Latin awkward and, well, just plain ugly. Besides, if you say Sigma Octans, everyone knows what you mean. Right?

Any comments?

[Pinemarten]

Genitives, not only Latin, and not only astronomical; have had me flustered for some time now.
When I refer to a person and I don't know their gender, I use the term 'he'. 'They' is plural, can't use that; 'one' fits most times, but not all, 'it' is definitely out.
The English language, I have always said is:

Too many of the wrong words, and not enough of the right ones.

It is the most popular G10 language, but it may be due for some adjustments; as well as Latin.

[Cougar]

Genitive, schmenitive! What about those antiquated plurals? I mean, fora? What the heck is wrong with forums? Of course, many of these more sensical plural forms are creeping into dictionaries as second preferences (and octopuses is already first choice!), so they're moving into the language, but the creeping is much too slow. Dictionary makers follow the actual usage of the language, so if everybody starts using the standard "add an s" to form plurals rather than the antiquated latin form, maybe we can get this straightened out in, oh, the next couple of centuries. :roll:

[tracer]

But without the genitive, we wouldn't have nearly as much fun with all the wacky confusion between the constellations of Hydrus and Hydra!

[aporetic_r]

Let's do it like they do in Chinese. Keep the word the same, but add another word to indicate plurality. It is way easier thanmessing with these suffixes.

Aporetic

[gethen]

I would hate to see the genetives ditched for one selfish reason: I spent two years in highschool being forced to memorize the darn things and I would like to think it was worth something. :wink:

[Eroica]

Did anyone notice that the IAU has already started dropping the genitives? Serpens Caput and Serpens Cauda should really be Serpentis Caput and Cauda!

[tuffel999]

It is a dead language so it stays the way it was, we don't get to change it. That is the point of using a dead language for things is it doesn't change so we have a very nice standard to use.

[sarongsong]

Kind'a like this one, tho:
Satellitious
(a.) Pertaining to, or consisting of, satellites.

[Charlie in Dayton]

Don't you think you ought to consult the old Latin before you do something drastic with his...what?...say that again...oh...

...never mind...

[tusenfem]

And who in their right mind could guess that the genitive case of Canes Venatici is Canum Venaticorum?"

This I knew, because I once did a study of RS CVn stars \/

[Lunnalkann]

Genitive, schmenitive! What about those antiquated plurals? I mean, fora? What the heck is wrong with forums? Of course, many of these more sensical plural forms are creeping into dictionaries as second preferences (and octopuses is already first choice!), so they're moving into the language, but the creeping is much too slow. Dictionary makers follow the actual usage of the language, so if everybody starts using the standard "add an s" to form plurals rather than the antiquated latin form, maybe we can get this straightened out in, oh, the next couple of centuries.

Octopodes! The main reason I like using the latin forms (I use fora over forums) is that it just sounds better to me. I also like the history of it.

[informant]

When I refer to a person and I don't know their gender, I use the term 'he'. 'They' is plural, can't use that; 'one' fits most times, but not all, 'it' is definitely out.
The English language, I have always said is:

Too many of the wrong words, and not enough of the right ones.

English is not the only language that does that! Many languages use that very same solution (most European languages, I would wager). What you have to realise is that grammatical gender is not the same as biological gender. "He" may usually refer to a male, but in some cases it can also refer to people of unknown or otherwise undetermined biological gender.

With regard to the OT, I disagree with dropping genitives in constellation names. Like others said, Latin is a dead language, you don't get to change it. Use a glossary if you have trouble memorizing the genitives. Since you've decided to use Latin, use it properly!

[mike alexander]

Forums...bah!

Media is... bah!

Data is... bah!

"I have wagered my life upon a cast

and I will stand the hazard of the ....dice?"

[Eroica]

Referenda ... bah!

[informant]

Forums...bah!

Media is... bah!

Are you saying that you don't like Latin plurals or English plurals?

[mike alexander]

I'm a traditionalist on this one. Maybe because it's what I learned, am comfortable with, and perhaps because I like showing off obscure education. Could be.

As far as I'm concerned, a sentence starting:

"Data is...."

has to end

"...on the bridge of the Enterprise."