A second toilet will definitely be something to consider for future missions. Although it might take up valuable space, it would help in situations like this. Even toilets on Earth go berserk sometimes...
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A second toilet will definitely be something to consider for future missions. Although it might take up valuable space, it would help in situations like this. Even toilets on Earth go berserk sometimes...
Established Member
Ideally you'd have 100% redundancy in every system....Originally Posted by V_Zhd
Ideally...
Order of Kilopi
For those who might have thought there was no redundancy in the urine collection system (neglecting for the moment even further redundancy: 1) the toilet on Soyuz, 2) the bag-like collection system, 3) just doing the 2-person manual process every few uses):
CBS News Space Place
Unfortunately, the two spares failed. That's a lot of spares, for something that can be worked around so many other ways.Troubleshooting indicated the problem involved the pump in that system, but two spares on the station failed to work longer than about a day. All three pumps came from the same manufacturing lot and the Russians rushed a new pump with a different pedigree to the Kennedy Space Center for launch aboard Discovery.
Order of Kilopi
thanks for that link In other words the toilet still works, but has to be worked manually. In other words rather like a domestic toilet with a broken flush where you have to bucket water to clear it. Annoying, something to be fixed, but not earth shattering. It always amazes me how comparitively trivial problems are always magnified in the media.
Jon
Established Member
In space, there are no trivial issues.
Member
So they plugged in the Kibo module before fixing the toilet.
Talk about getting your priorities in order...
Established Member
Number 1 - Science!
Number 2 - Numbers 1 and 2!
Order of Kilopi
Well....if ya can't go to the loo proper, how are ya going to go to mars?
Back to the ol' drawing board.
Established Member
I saw this on Yahoo Answers earilier in the week. I thought it was funny.
Q: Who is going to repair the broken ISS toilet?
A: The "Head" Astronaut/Cosmonaut.
.
Member
This is funny, $100 billion to create a toxic dump, you couldn't make this stuff up!
Can someone remind me why we're still building this thing?
Order of Kilopi
Because it isn't a toxic dump, it's a scientific space station. With a loo.
Other questions?
Established Member
Why not create a modified version of what the airlines use? Those toilets have a lot of power/suction behind them. Let the vacuum of space suck the waste out a pipe in retrograde. Less cleanup and the ISS gets a kick to boot.
Order of Kilopi
There's one slight difference between being sat on a jumbo jet at 40,000 ft, and being in the ISS at 1,000,000 ft.
Can you guess what it is?
Order of Kilopi
I'm afraid that would leak too much air out (it would have to flush from the first second you start, erm, depositing), plus I thought they recycled the toilet water. Third, you'd risk having a lovebite on your bottom, which would be impossible to explain away to your spouse after returning to earth.
Established Member
I assume the recycled water is used for cooling. They could have designed a closed loop system for that.
Poo propulsion could be more valuable.
Remember the water rockets when you were/are kids? That was quite a kick for the amount of mass. If the average donation is one pound per day per astronaut times sever days. The waste goes into a storage tank were it emulsifies naturally. Then once a week you pressurize the tank to a couple hundred pounds and let her rip (so to speak). With a small outlet nozzle, I wonder what the thrust would be?
Member
And exactly what science is/has been taking place? Observing the human condition after long periods in space? Did the Russians not learn anything about that with Mir?
I could think of a hell of a lot more useful things to spend $100 billion on (and lives).
Imagine that money going into R&Ding cheaper access to space, or into the moon base project - how much progress would have been already made, or how many cool probes we could have sent across the solar system. etc etc.
Order of Kilopi
Yes - that's what the ISS needs, sharing its orbit with vast quantities of faeces.
Compressed air propulsion (that's all you're talking about) lacks the reliability, predicability and performance of hydrazine and other hypergolic propellants. Totally inappropriate for what you're suggesting.
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It depends on the exhaust velocity. I don’t know the math behind pressure and mass , but isn’t it possible for it to deorbit in less than one revolution? If anyone here can calculate the thrust of water exiting a 1/2 inch opening under 200 psi pressure...Yes - that's what the ISS needs, sharing its orbit with vast quantities of faeces.
I would bet that it would be very reliable and predictable. I am.Compressed air propulsion (that's all you're talking about) lacks the reliability, predicability and performance of hydrazine and other hypergolic propellants.
You may have me on the performance side of the equation. But every little bit of thrust helps.
Order of Kilopi
When a resupply vehicle like the Progress is finished at the ISS, it is destructively deorbited. The ISS crew stuffs it with assorted trash and most likely human waste and the vehicle burns up on reentry. It isn't as if they're keeping huge quantities of human waste on orbit. IIRC, the new ESA resupply vehicle will also burn up on reentry.
Established Member
I doubt it, what if something (a rock of hardened feces, for instance) got caught over half of the outlet?
It could send the ISS into an out of control, fecal powered spin.
Established Member
I suspect 200 psi would clear the shute much faster than it could freeze.
Order of Kilopi
Lemme guess, you're one of those "feed the hungry" types, right?
Order of Kilopi
So if I'm correct you don't know exactly what science is/has been taking place at the ISS, yet you can form an opinion about it?
Besides, what do you think about the ISS being a great exercise in space construction and living and international cooperation, things necessary for say a Mars mission?
We have many cool probes (let's see, in the last few years we've had 4 mars landers, mars orbiters, venus orbiters, saturn orbiters, the Huygens lander, the JAXA asteroid lander, a couple of lunar probes, solar probe, New Horizons, building a new space telescope, etcetc) and we have the ISS. We have a new moon project and we have the ISS. We're working on a cheap access to space (Ares), plus transport to the ISS has led to the new Soyuz TMA and ATV.
I don't see the problem you appear to be seeing.
And sure, the ISS is massively expensive. So? That money is largely spent here on earth, giving people here on earth the opportunity to learn new things (hey! There's R&D again!) and get paid for it. The material value being "wasted" (it is low earth orbit...) is quite low indeed. That 100 billion, if you trace it, all went to people increasing their knowledge and feeding their family. That's economy for you.
Order of Kilopi
I'd say it's all spent here on earth. I'm yet to find a location off-earth that takes cash, cheque OR card!
Doug
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Sorry; Quids only.
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