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Thread: naked singularities

  1. #1

    naked singularities

    What is the situation where a singularity of a black hole could be viewed? Basically where the event horizon was reduced because of the spin of a black hole?

    Is there a certain speed that the black hole would need to rotate at?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommac View Post
    What is the situation where a singularity of a black hole could be viewed?
    My guess is that not seeing the singularity is part of the definition of black hole.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    My guess is that not seeing the singularity is part of the definition of black hole.
    Not in the case of the naked singularity. Supposedly as a black hole spins the event horizon shrinks, so if it spins fast enough the event horizon could shrink to a smaller size than the radius of the singularity ( which is disk shaped ).

    the stuff I am reading is pretty vague but the math supposedly works ... but I know very little math.

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    Superluminal rotation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommac View Post
    Not in the case of the naked singularity. Supposedly as a black hole spins the event horizon shrinks, so if it spins fast enough the event horizon could shrink to a smaller size than the radius of the singularity ( which is disk shaped ).

    the stuff I am reading is pretty vague but the math supposedly works ... but I know very little math.
    I was under the impression that the definition of a singularity is such that it is so small that the only way to detect it is by the gravitation effect (warping of space-time).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by alainprice View Post
    Superluminal rotation?
    hmmm that is cool ... I guess it could be legal too right?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmocrazy View Post
    I was under the impression that the definition of a singularity is such that it is so small that the only way to detect it is by the gravitation effect (warping of space-time).
    Source?

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    Legal, no.

    Necessary for this idea to work, probably.

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    Arrow

    Search the web for the phrase "naked singularity".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommac View Post
    Source?
    Your asking his source when he indicated an impression, and confusion?

    Anyway... Per wiki for a naked singularity:

    In general relativity, a naked singularity is a gravitational singularity without an event horizon. The singularities inside black holes are always surrounded by an area which does not allow light to escape, and therefore cannot be directly observed. A naked singularity, by contrast, is observable from the outside.
    It's pretty clear that they are saying something similar to what I questioned.

    Now; you may be using some incorrect language making the confusion. If you mean spinning singularity instead of spinning black hole, then you might have a valid question.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by alainprice View Post
    Legal, no.

    Necessary for this idea to work, probably.
    I dont think that GR holds up inside the event horizon right?

  12. #12
    I just never heard that definition for a singularity before. I was wondering where he got that definition of a singularity.


    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Your asking his source when he indicated an impression, and confusion?

    Anyway... Per wiki for a naked singularity:


    It's pretty clear that they are saying something similar to what I questioned.

    Now; you may be using some incorrect language making the confusion. If you mean spinning singularity instead of spinning black hole, then you might have a valid question.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Now; you may be using some incorrect language making the confusion. If you mean spinning singularity instead of spinning black hole, then you might have a valid question.
    Gotcha !!! good point. I was confused. The singularity is spinning so quickly that it stops being a black hole and starts being a naked singularity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommac View Post
    I just never heard that definition for a singularity before. I was wondering where he got that definition of a singularity.
    Being an impression, I'm sure it's a collection of small tidbits from lots of places.

    But;
    Wiki does say something similar for the definition of singularity.

    a place where quantities which are used to measure the gravitational field become infinite. Such quantities include the curvature of spacetime or the density of matter. More accurately, a spacetime with a singularity contains geodesics which cannot be completed in a smooth manner.
    Meaning there's no way to measure it by itself, and need other methods to infer it. Since gravity is not a particle that needs to escape, then that inference is mainly gravity.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent View Post
    Search the web for the phrase "naked singularity".
    It's usually dangerous to search the web for naked anything while at work

    NIck

  17. #17
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    I used to wish it possible for a singularity to spin itself into a ring, or torus. The gravitational field at the exact center would be 0, allowing an axis of travel through it.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Theodorakis View Post
    It's usually dangerous to search the web for naked anything while at work

    NIck
    hah ...

    Once I was trying to write a quick shell script that stripped some fields from a standard out. So I wanted to see how to do that with the unix cut command.

    I searched google for the words "man cut" ... I wouldnt recommend that.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by alainprice View Post
    I used to wish it possible for a singularity to spin itself into a ring, or torus. The gravitational field at the exact center would be 0, allowing an axis of travel through it.
    Well that would only be the point at the exact center ... or for a perfectly balanced circular based object ... otherwise they would still have a near infinite gravity to deal with right? If you were just a little off on one side or another you could get torn apart????


  20. #20
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    Here are three web links you can proudly show to your boss:

    Usenet Physics FAQ (scroll down to the section on black holes)
    Ted Bunn's Black Holes FAQ
    Virtual Trips to Black Holes and Neutron Stars

  21. #21

    Lightbulb General Relativity

    Quote Originally Posted by tommac View Post
    I dont think that GR holds up inside the event horizon right?
    No, general relativity is a valid theory everywhere except at the singularity itself. However, in current studies we feel that quantum theories of gravity become necessary at a distance of about one Planck Length from the singularity. General relativity fails only at the singularity itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Being an impression, I'm sure it's a collection of small tidbits from lots of places.

    But;
    Wiki does say something similar for the definition of singularity.


    Meaning there's no way to measure it by itself, and need other methods to infer it. Since gravity is not a particle that needs to escape, then that inference is mainly gravity.
    Thanks yes this is exactly how my understanding of a singularity is defined. I had read it in an article by Stephen Hawking quite a few years ago so i guess i,m a little out of date on the subject. Interesting concept though the "naked singularity". Yet to be observed! But theoretically possible.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Theodorakis View Post
    It's usually dangerous to search the web for naked anything while at work

    NIck
    what if you wanted to search about if the naked singularity fit into the no hair theory?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tommac View Post
    hah ...

    Once I was trying to write a quick shell script that stripped some fields from a standard out. So I wanted to see how to do that with the unix cut command.

    I searched google for the words "man cut" ... I wouldnt recommend that.

    One time I told a friend of mine's father, who was an avid hunter, about a website devoted to tracking animals and showed a whole gallery of different animal droppings such as bear and elk and how the appearence changes with time, weather and what they have been feeding on. I couldn't quite recall the name of it.

    He did a Google search on "scat". I don't recommend that either.

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