Are Conspiracy Theorist mentally ill?

[Fatal Error]

Hello, I'm new to the forum. I know this may seem like an odd question and I know I'm setting myself up to be bashed, but I was just curious to see some other opinions. My wife and I were invited to a party through some friends of a friend. Long story short, after a few beers, these guys started talking about several conspiracy theories. Everything from 9-11 to faked Moon landings. Their discussion of "the face on Mars" was comical to say the least.

I have never encountered CT's face to face before. I've seen them on TV, heard them on the radio and I have debated with them over the internet from time to time. Seeing and listening to them in a "live" setting...well, it's truly something to behold. I would definitely recommend the experience. Anyway, as they were speaking on theories that have been thoroughly debunked countless times, I couldn't help but notice the look in their eyes. They almost appeared to be mentally ill. No exaggeration, mentally ill.

Obviously not all, but would you say the vast majority of hard core CT's have a slight mental illness? Have any serious studies ever been conducted exploring the mind of a hard core CT?

[Swift]

Hi Fatal Error (funny handle), welcome to BAUT.

And no, that's not an odd question, at least around this place. We've had threads about this before; if you want to search, I'd particularly look in the CT forum.

As far as your question, it is hard to give an exact answer. I don't know of any serious studies. I suspect that some suffer from mental illness, though I don't know how to measure "slight". I would not say that the majority of people we've heard from here are seriously mentally ill. I'd say many are just confused or poorly informed.

[Infinity Watcher]

Hi Fatal Error, welcome to BAUT, enjoy your time here and if you haven't already check the rules so your stay can be long and prosperous (sorry, I just like the word prosperous and I don't get the opportunity to use it in casual conversation very often).

In answer to your question, firstly bear in mind I am not a doctor so what I say should be taken with an appropriate degree of salt. I have to be careful here, I don't wish for anything I say to be taken as slander or libel so I'll get that out of the way to start with and I certainly won't use names even if I felt qualified to do so.

A person with some sort of delusional disorder might have some sort of conspiracy theory relating to the delusion but that doesn't mean all people who believe in a conspiracy theory are mentally ill.

There are cases either on this board or on apollohoax where people have beleived in a conspiracy theory that the evidence is against as a result of only having seen one side of the evidence and this can actually indicates rational decision making if the person has not seen any evidence to the contrary of their belief and of course not believing in any conspiracy at all would probably be naive in the extreme, whilst George Bernard Shaw may have been stretching it when he said that "all professions are conspiracies against the laity" in The Doctor's Dilemma there certainly exist conspiracies otherwise most places wouldn't have "conspiracy to commit" laws on the lawbooks.

Some of the purveyors of what I shall call illogical conspiracies may be in it for other reasons of course, some may be in it for money or power, some may actually believe what they say and not understand where they start to leave the bounds of logical reasoning. In short I suspect there are a number of reasons and ascribing a single reason to a very diverse group would be unwise.

[Infinity Watcher]

And of course I'm beaten to it by someone else: so basically my post sums up to "what Swift said"

[Lianachan]

Fatal Error - I agree with the above replies, but just wanted to chip in to say that as an Aphex Twin fan I wholeheartedy approve of your avatar!

[Neverfly]

This thread over in Q&A had a similar discussion:http://www.bautforum.com/questions-a...onspiracy.html

[Abbadon_2008]

I've studied various conspiracy theories.
The problem with CTs is that they allow preconceptiions and wishful thinking to cloud their judgement.

When I research something, I look for facts.

When CTs reaserch things, they often look for something to corraborate their own beliefs.

There's a world of difference in those two approaches.

I'm not certain of any statisitical link between CTs and mental illness. I've always held the belief that "Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you!"

I just look for ALL information available, and use what makes sense. Not what I WANT IT to be.

[Gillianren]

I am, rather more than most around here, pretty well versed in psychology. At least given my interested amateur standing; do not take anything I say as a professional medical opinion, because it assuredly isn't.

That being said, yes, some of them are mentally ill, but no, most of them are not. I have observed what I believe to be signs of schizophrenia in a rare few of them, but there are a lot of other factors at hand. Some are ignorant; I would, in fact, say that most are ignorant. Well, we're all ignorant of something--of many things, even. The issue becomes deeper when the ignorance becomes willful.

[Neverfly]

I am, rather more than most around here, pretty well versed in psychology. At least given my interested amateur standing; do not take anything I say as a professional medical opinion, because it assuredly isn't.

That being said, yes, some of them are mentally ill, but no, most of them are not. I have observed what I believe to be signs of schizophrenia in a rare few of them, but there are a lot of other factors at hand. Some are ignorant; I would, in fact, say that most are ignorant. Well, we're all ignorant of something--of many things, even. The issue becomes deeper when the ignorance becomes willful.

Willful is a very big part of it as well, considering that they are voicing their opinions loudly.

[Michael Noonan]

Originally Posted by Gillianren
I am, rather more than most around here, pretty well versed in psychology. At least given my interested amateur standing; do not take anything I say as a professional medical opinion, because it assuredly isn't.

That being said, yes, some of them are mentally ill, but no, most of them are not. I have observed what I believe to be signs of schizophrenia in a rare few of them, but there are a lot of other factors at hand. Some are ignorant; I would, in fact, say that most are ignorant. Well, we're all ignorant of something--of many things, even. The issue becomes deeper when the ignorance becomes willful.

Willful is a very big part of it as well, considering that they are voicing their opinions loudly.

Both absolutely correct.

(snip)
Obviously not all, but would you say the vast majority of hard core CT's have a slight mental illness? Have any serious studies ever been conducted exploring the mind of a hard core CT?

Harder to say on that front as I am unaware of any studies that invited me to participate in. Having said that it must also must be said in my conspiracy thread that due to uncertainty of numbers the best estimates concluded that in excess of 87% of all first moon landing attempts were indeed successful and so the unanimous decision by an unnamed and impartial jury who shall not be questioned is that it was successful and in the future the original footprint will be housed in countless reputable galleries the length of the universe.

For those times the attempt had to be postponed temporarily was mainly due to the moon being off balance due to overwhelming numbers of last minute future bookings arriving or cancelling and in some early runs a clash of national pride but from a future historic point of view overwhelmingly successful and chargeable by defamation action by the League of First Time Moon Landing Enthusiasts.

It is actually possible that a few CT's have some serious problems (but I had best not say anything on that front). But then again no one took me seriously.

[Neverfly]

Yes, I also thionk most are not mentally ill or anything. Some may be gullible or not critical thinkers... But that is what learning is for.

Are kids mentally Ill? When I was a kid, I believed spider man was real

[KLIK]

My tuppenceworth;

I think a large amount of people are so sneaky devious in their everyday life - from telling kids about santa claus to all their mates keeping quiet about an affair they might be having,- that they find it impossible to believe that the people that rule them are so squeaky clean that they would never lie or mislead us, it then follows that conspiracies do occasionally occur. (my faith in human nature is such that I don't believe a secret can be kept for that long).
So, not mentally ill, just extending human nature to bigger events.

[Neverfly]

My tuppenceworth;

I think a large amount of people are so sneaky devious in their everyday life - from telling kids about santa claus to all their mates keeping quiet about an affair they might be having,- that they find it impossible to believe that the people that rule them are so squeaky clean that they would never lie or mislead us, it then follows that conspiracies do occasionally occur. (my faith in human nature is such that I don't believe a secret can be kept for that long).
So, not mentally ill, just extending human nature to bigger events.

KLIK tyou just spoke some wisdom I am glad to see that others look at certain things the same way I do

[Nadme]

I've often wondered the same!

Yes, I think hardcore CT's tend to be "mental." And if they're not mental they may be bored, unable to get a date, like to be provocative and get attention with their wacko theories...

Of the CT's I've encountered, many definitely strike me as obsessive and sometimes downright paranoid. One even admits he's somewhat paranoid.

Takes all kinds of people to make a world.

[Neverfly]

Yes, I think hardcore CT's tend to be "mental." And if they're not mental they may be bored, unable to get a date, like to be provocative and get attention with their wacko theories...

Sibrel?
Who would want a 210 lb sack of pus with a bad hair job?

[Fatal Error]

Thank you for the welcome and thanks for the replies. Looks like the general consensus is that most of them are not mentally ill. Do I think a child believing in Spider Man is sign of mentally illness? Obviously not. I do, however, think adults that still believe the Pentagon was hit by a missle...there has to be something wrong.

I bet if you plucked 300 random people off the street, and you took 300 9-11 CT's from ground zero and you could somehow test their mental stability...I think there would be a discernible difference between the two groups. Just my opinion and I mean no disrespect.

[Fazor]

Thank you for the welcome and thanks for the replies. Looks like the general consensus is that most of them are not mentally ill. Do I think a child believing in Spider Man is sign of mentally illness? Obviously not. I do, however, think adults that still believe the Pentagon was hit by a missle...there has to be something wrong.

I bet if you plucked 300 random people off the street, and you took 300 9-11 CT's from ground zero and you could somehow test their mental stability...I think there would be a discernible difference between the two groups. Just my opinion and I mean no disrespect.

Not that I'm a professional in the realm of human behavior, but from what I've observed here in the past year and a half or so, my opinion is that most are not "mentally ill", per se. Many share some of the same behavioral traits--and a lot of those traits are very common--albeit manifested in a different way.

For instance, we as people tend to want to be in control of our surroundings. Obviously the strength of that desire varries, but few of us like to feel helpless. Some of us gain control by studying the world arround us and learning as much as possible. Some gain control by "taking charge" and bossing around the people arround them. CT'ers seem to find their control by manifesting stories that make them feel smarter than the perceived ones in power (Government, NASA, etc).

You could say that they are mentally ill because they believe the delusions they create--but most of us have some such beliefs (supperstitions, religions, etc).

But there's many different kinds of CT/HB'ers, and I'm hesitant to paint the entire group with any one brush. Listen to one for a while and you start to get an idea of their background, motvies, etc.

[Byrd]

Just a quick reply before I head out the door (more later) -- I'm studying internet communities and have kept up with a number of these for the past 5 years. No, there's probably no more incidence of mental illness in these guys than there is in anyone else.

That said, they do tend to be ultra-conservative -- meaning that they are more comfortable with a fixed view of the world and things like science changing its mind on everything from cosmology to evolutionary heredity makes them very uncomfortable. They want An Answer that's final and firm.

They also tend to fall victim to certain slogans which can lead them onward. In the recent rounds of teapot tempests, I noticed them all rallying around Ron Paul because "he's the only Constitutional candidate" (by which they meant he wanted to throw out the parts of the Constitution that were voted in as society changed) and that he wanted to get rid of the IRS (the concept that "we will pay for government by putting 2 million government workers out of jobs and then raising tariffs (which means your gas would be about $8/gallon)" didn't seem to penetrate the "Constitutional Candidate and Overthrow evil IRS" wall of logic.

More later.

[clint]

How would you call somebody who directly observes the sun for hours with his unprotected eyes,
and then starts to introduce chopsticks between his eyeballs and the neighboring bones,
in order to squeeze his eyeballs and see what effect that would have on his observation of the sunlight?

Isaac Newton did many things most would judge pretty insane.
He also stubbornly refused to accept some of the mainstream theories of his time.
And believed in a conspiracy of the Catholic Church to hide the truth (the true nature of light).

Thing is, he turned out to be right

A small percentage of hard-core CT's, is probably healthy for a society.
Even if most are wrong (and some insane), they make us question the mainstream.

[Ken G]

A small percentage of hard-core CT's, is probably healthy for a society.
Even if most are wrong (and some insane), they make us question the mainstream.

Yes, the principle behind a beneficial CT is much like the principle behind "whistle-blowing", it is the danger of the "Emperor's new clothes" effect, and I don't think anyone would argue our society is skewed harmfully toward whistle blowing. Still, we need ways of distinguishing plausible CTs from outrageous ones, as the former keeps us on our toes but the latter only obfuscates the truth. After all, the grand-daddy of all CTs is that the govenment pays agents to pretend to be wackos circulating particularly absurd CTs to discredit the true ones...

[Fazor]

wrt Clint and Ken G; the danger is people accepting what some "power" says blindly. CT's that are accepted/believed blindly are just as dangerous. The ideal, healthy balance? Don't accept things on faith; rather demand evidence and facts that are observable and can be proven/disproven.

[Gillianren]

Willful is a very big part of it as well, considering that they are voicing their opinions loudly.

The thing is, though, we only hear from the ones who do. There are, no doubt, even more who quietly hold these beliefs and don't tell anyone about them. It never occurs to them to discuss it; they're right, aren't they? They saw that Fox special, and they know the score. These are the casual ones; the problem, I think, is that they are the ones who are hardest for us to reach. The other problem is that they're no doubt teaching their kids "the truth," too.

Hey, KLIK? Very few of us are saying that all of them are mentally ill. However, some of them assuredly are. Now, be fair, so am I. However, I'm not the kind of mentally ill that buys into conspiracy. I have seen evidence of schizophrenia in some of these people. I'm not qualified to diagnose, naturally, but there is no other reasonable explanation for some of the patterns of behaviour I have observed in some of these people--not even deliberate trolling. The patterns are very specific, and they're hard to fake.

I also believe that, if they think they're writing human behaviour large, they have as small a grasp on human behaviour as they do physics. You're right; a large conspiracy is defeated by the human impulse to share knowledge. In short, that it's still "secret" is evidence to me that it's real, albeit not what I consider the most overwhelming piece of evidence.

[laurele]

It's just my opinion, but I think the current media "celebrity culture" encourages conspiracy theorists. The weirder something is, the more likely it will get media attention, especially today, when it's easy for anyone to start a web site and attract followers that way. I view a lot of conspiracy theorists as the equivalent of yesterday's "snake oil salesmen." If they're getting attention and making money off of selling an entire host of products based on the conspiracy theory, they become vested enough in it so that even if they may have been uncertain about the theory in the beginning, they later come to believe in it because it is bringing them wealth and fame.

[Trebuchet]

Hey, KLIK? Very few of us are saying that all of them are mentally ill. However, some of them assuredly are. Now, be fair, so am I.

The difference is you've recognized it and sought help. CTers are in serious denial, even if they're not truly mentally ill.

[mugaliens]

I would say that it depends on the conspriacy. Do conspiracies exist? Absolutely. However, many CTs go way beyond reality and well into never-never land. They probably suffer from some sort of mental illness. Others who believe that conspiracies are possible, but are able to discern the difference between reality and the absurd are probably fairly well-adjusted people.

In a similar vein, one might argue that those who believe that no conspiracies exist, and who totally trust their governments are probably missing a few marbles, too.

I think it's healthy to question and hold others accountable. To blindly accept everything is to invite even more conspiracy.

[Ken G]

wrt Clint and Ken G; the danger is people accepting what some "power" says blindly. CT's that are accepted/believed blindly are just as dangerous. The ideal, healthy balance? Don't accept things on faith; rather demand evidence and facts that are observable and can be proven/disproven.

Exactly, it's not what you believe that counts, it is what process you use to come by your beliefs, for the former is a function of the latter.

[Noclevername]

...and I don't think anyone would argue our society is skewed harmfully toward whistle blowing.

Not really; we're skewed towards media-worthy, spectacle-generating whistle-blowing. But the number of problems quietly swept under the various rugs probably greatly outnumber the ones that get their whistles blown... not that we'll ever really know.

[Maksutov]

Not really; we're skewed towards media-worthy, spectacle-generating whistle-blowing. But the number of problems quietly swept under the various rugs probably greatly outnumber the ones that get their whistles blown... not that we'll ever really know.

Until the bridge collapses, the gas tank explodes, the airplane crashes, the antiemetic drug produces some unusual babies, and the corporation that paid its CEO $5.2 million last year goes under this year. And so on.

BTW, while on this side topic, a slight complaint here. The History Channel has a series called "Engineering Disasters". From what I've seen of a number of these shows, most of them should be called "Accounting Disasters", "Manufacturing Shortcut Disasters", "Management Hubris Disasters", and "Disasters of Incompetence". Some of the few that were perhaps real "engineering disasters" should have been labeled with a phrase popular among us mechanical engineers: "Engineered on the Floor Disasters".

Back OT, I don't know if CTers are mentally ill, but it seems that every time after looking into a conspiracy "theory", its wild claims, and wildly scarce evidence, I mutter "That's nuts!"

[farmerjumperdon]

I'd bet my bottom dollar there is a positive correlation of nuerosis and acceptance of the usual asortment of CT's.

Especially the ones that glom onto every CT that comes along; symptoms of social dysfunction are the norm.

[Jim]

Welcome to BAUT, Fatal Error!

... I am glad to see that others look at certain things the same way I do...

Scary, huh?

On the topic, I think you need to be very careful about labeling all CTs as "mentally ill." That phrase has a very broad range of meaning. Some, as Gillian noticed and mentioned, may be truly psychotic, but others are neurotic and/or paranoid, while most are probably just ignorant and gullible.

There is probably an overall mindset among CTs that "They" are not to be trusted and an overall desire for an easy-to-grasp explanation. Those two feed off each other and a CT is born.

Oh, and sure, we need folks who do not trust Authority blindly, who ask what can be embarrassing questions. But, for them to be effective in their skepticism, they must be able to recognize and accept a truthful response. CTs are willing to accept only those responses which reinforce or match their preconceptions; any response which doesn't is by definition part of the conspiracy.