Is this correct and can the area be found?

[magi]

Hi.

This film explain were the religion story come from in a exiting way.

Here is a short version on nearly 10 minutes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE

and a total version on about 26 minutes

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...75979627863972

I didnt think it would be anything but after seeing it I am walking around giggling.

Is what they say, 7 min in to the 26 min video, about stars and sun, sirius and orions belt and so on correct?

Is it possible to find the area were you have to stand on earth,
to be able to see the sunrise position, at 25 dec, in line with the stars in the belt of orion in line with sirius
and were the sun is at its lowest position the 23,24,25 december under the constellation of CRUX?

What bother me is that no one here seem to look at the stars
when and where these stories seemed to start, if there now is any truth in them.

When lookíng at the stars from egypt 5000 years ago when horus stories started, I find star maps
that seem to fit the story from zeitgeist a bit.

I have some pics here you can look at, and if you want to see them best
zoom in with button up right.
http://picasaweb.google.com/magnus.ivarsson/SUN_CRUX

I use a simpel java star map
http://www.skyviewcafe.com/skyview.php?supersize=true
and I have compared it with a advanced star map program called
Cartes du Ciel / CDC
http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/
and it seem to give same star maps, so for a quick analyze the
java star map is ok to use and its quite simpel.

I go to
http://www.skyviewcafe.com/skyview.php?supersize=true
and go to tab "map" where I click in egypt to put my location from where to stand.
Then I go to Tab "Sky" and mark "Path of Sun" and "Constellations" at right.
Under Tabs I "Select a direction" to South as "S" and to the right, in options I
find "Horizon to zenith" in first and "Sky colour basic" in second.
Then change date up right to about -3003-12-24 04,10.
Time zone up right is to be +2 and daylight saving time to europe or us.

Now you can experiment by marking a number in date and hold up or down the arrow to run through days, months or years and see the stars and sun path change and see how sun moves through constellation virgin and so on
or change place to stand on other places in the world.

Please write what you think about this because I think it is a interesting idea that this is the start from were religion come from and if you also think this could be the place in the world were this must been started seen from.

What do you think?

Regards Magi

[NEOWatcher]

First: Welcome to the board.

Although the topic of this post can be considered religious, there is an interesting question here. I hope everyone can stick to that.

The video talks about the sun being in the center of Crux on the winter solstice.

I mainly wanted to help with the OP question, and am no expert. But; my observation says that it can't happen anywhere. Crux is perpendicular to Earth's rotation and orbit, so it will never cross the plane.

[tdvance]

Since Crux cannot be seen from, say, Washington DC latitude, if the sun is ever in Crux, it would not rise that day from Washington. Since I have never observed that to happen, the sun is never in Crux.

[magi]

Här är en bild från egypten vid år 7 där CRUX syns stå där solen på dagen har sin lägsta punkt på året.
Here is a picture from the sky at year 0001-12-24 at 03,53 where CRUX show the suns highest point on the sky when its day 7 hours later on the winter when the sun is at its lowest point.

http://picasaweb.google.se/magnus.iv...62147953491458

Maybe it is this they talk about in zeitgeist?

Magi

[aurora]

Your image is a black screen with a curved line and two white dots.

What is that supposed to represent?

[loglo]

Your image is a black screen with a curved line and two white dots.

What is that supposed to represent?

I see a star chart with faint blue lines for constellations.

[astromark]

From my point of view this is a real problem... I live in New Zealand. 39" 55' south...
On Sunday our time, at mid day the sun will be in CRUX. Well almost.
Have I got time to increase my insurances....

Relax... relax... this is a wind up....... and it continues to amaze me that people do believe this sort of dribble.

I will make every effort to be on line around midnight on the 23rd.
I will bring fresh coffee. Clear skies.

[George]

From my point of view this is a real problem... I live in New Zealand. 39" 55' south...
On Sunday our time, at mid day the sun will be in CRUX. Well almost.

The Sun will be furthest south at -23^o 26' 24.4" on the 22nd at 05:00 UT. The northern most star of Crux is about -57 deg.; no where near the Sun.

For the Sun to be in a line between the belt of Orion, Sirius, and Crux, it would need to be at RA of about 7-1/2 hr. Its actual location, however, is 18 hours RA (Dec. 23,24). It ain't close.

[Added: The maximum variation of the Sun's planet along the ecliptic would come from two observers opposite each other on the globe. This would create a angular variation of 28 arc seconds only, however; not enough to make any difference for a special vantage location for a solar alignment.

Here are the Solar coordinates of our white Sun along the ecliptic this Christmas....

2007-Dec-21 17 54 25.66 -23 26 02.3
2007-Dec-22 17 58 51.97 -23 26 23.5
2007-Dec-23 18 03 18.31 -23 26 16.6
2007-Dec-24 18 07 44.66 -23 25 41.5
2007-Dec-25 18 12 10.98 -23 24 38.2
2007-Dec-26 18 16 37.25 -23 23 06.8
2007-Dec-27 18 21 03.43 -23 21 07.2
2007-Dec-28 18 25 29.49 -23 18 39.5
2007-Dec-29 18 29 55.41 -23 15 43.7
2007-Dec-30 18 34 21.15 -23 12 19.9
2007-Dec-31 18 38 46.68 -23 08 28.1

[hhEb09'1]

From my point of view this is a real problem... I live in New Zealand. 39" 55' south...
On Sunday our time, at mid day the sun will be in CRUX. Well almost.

Impossible, it's the same place for everyone on earth. almost

[Jeff Root]

Your image is a black screen with a curved line and two white dots.

Sounds like you need a better-quality monitor. Or you need to
adjust the brightness and contrast.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[astromark]

Relax... relax... this is a wind up....... and it continues to amaze me that people do believe this sort of dribble.

Did ya not see that bit... but.

At around midnight I see Crux as far south as she gets... so,
It is a reasonable conclusion that at midday it will be overhead, ( sort of )
Which is ( sort of ) where the sun might be found if it ever stops raining....
Thanks for the numbers, but I knew all this. Yes the sun will not be any place it would not normally be.. and Crux will be down there in the southern sky as it should.

We have been able to locate some of the higher magnitude stars in daylight with the use of the setting circles. Alpha Centaurus is such and does look very high. ( but still not near the suns track )

The sun will rise on December the 24th and life on planet Earth will not be extinguished by some foolish non event. The alignment is fiction. Scare mongering overzealous religious factions have some very odd motivational tools... Its them I do not understand. What is there to be gained by this sort of idicy...

[Arcane]

That is quite an elaborate theory and took some real creativity to think it up. I couldnt find anywhere on earth where the souther cross would be directly above the sun on dec 25 though. It seems as though the cross is always due west of the sun.

But that is an interesting theory for sure. Will have to do more research on it.

[novaderrik]

can this event be seen from the Middle east?
if not, then it probably didn't have anything to do with the founding of any of the Abrahamic religions.
the cross is used as a symbol of the Christian faith because a certain someone was sentenced to die by hanging on one until he died, and not because of any cosmic alignment that could only potentially be seen thousands of miles away.

[George]

That is quite an elaborate theory and took some real creativity to think it up. I couldnt find anywhere on earth where the souther cross would be directly above the sun on dec 25 though. It seems as though the cross is always due west of the sun.

But that is an interesting theory for sure. Will have to do more research on it.

What do you find interesting about it? There were many errors throughout the first video. [I didn't watch the second.]

I won't address the religious claims, but I will the astronomy ones...

1)Claim: Sirius and 3 Kings stars align on Dec 24th.

Sirius does not align with the belt of Orion on Dec 24th, because it is already aligned there, like the position of all stars, 24/7. It is planets that are the wanderers; the word planet means wanderer.

2) Claim: The 3 aligned stars in Orion are called the 3 Kings.

The belt of Orion the Hunter is not normally called the 3 Kings, except in a few isolated cases.

3) Claim: The 3 stars of Orion and Sirius all point to the Sun at sunrise on Dec 25th.

The Sun in no way aligns remotely close to the line drawn from Orion's belt through Sirius. This non-alignment will be true from any position on our super tiny spec of space, our planet, in the galaxy; moving around the globe won't change alignments of the stars with the Sun, unless you can measure in thousandths of a degree.

However, the Sun does rise about the time that Orion and Sirius set. This may have been where they meant to go with their thinking. The Sun's position in the heavens is always a global view, so anywhere on the globe would see this, assuming they can see Sirius and the Sun. Far northern locations can't.

4) The Sun stays almost fixed for 3 days on the 22/23/24:

Although the Sun does hang-out to the south at winter solstice, it does not hang for just 3 days. You could pick 4 or more days and not notice much change. However, if 3 days were prefered for some reason, then it wouldn't be the days they claim, 22/23/24. Since the solstice is on the 22nd (6 am UT), then it would be the 21st, 22nd, and 23rd as the most southern 3 days.

5) On Dec. 25th, the Sun is near Crux:

The Sun is nowhere near the Southern Cross at Christmas, as I stated in a prior post. Also, their depiction of the Sun under the Cross is ridiculous. The Sun would have to be another 60 degrees South to be where they presented it.

6) On Dec. 25th, the Sun moves one degree north:

Wrong again. The Sun will move less than 1/30th of one degree on Dec. 25th. From the solstice on the 22nd, it will have moved only about 1/20th of a degree.

Had their claims been true, it would have been a great analogy, but their astronomy claims are false and not something they should be presenting.

[magi]

Hi.

What bother me is that no one here seem to look at the stars
when and where these stories seemed to start, if there now is any truth in them.

When lookíng at the stars from egypt 5000 years ago when horus stories started, I find star maps
that seem to fit the story from zeitgeist a bit.

I have some pics here you can look at, and if you want to see them best
zoom in with button up right.
http://picasaweb.google.com/magnus.ivarsson/SUN_CRUX

I use a simpel java star map
http://www.skyviewcafe.com/skyview.php?supersize=true
and I have compared it with a advanced star map program called
Cartes du Ciel / CDC
http://www.stargazing.net/astropc/
and it seem to give same star maps, so for a quick analyze the
java star map is ok to use and its quite simpel.

I go to
http://www.skyviewcafe.com/skyview.php?supersize=true
and go to tab "map" where I click in egypt to put my location from where to stand.
Then I go to Tab "Sky" and mark "Path of Sun" and "Constellations" at right.
Under Tabs I "Select a direction" to South as "S" and to the right, in options I
find "Horizon to zenith" in first and "Sky colour basic" in second.
Then change date up right to about -3003-12-24 04,10.
Time zone up right is to be +2 and daylight saving time to europe or us.

Now you can experiment by marking a number in date and hold up or down the arrow to run through days, months or years and see the stars and sun path change and see how sun moves through constellation virgin and so on
or change place to stand on other places in the world.

Please write what you think about this because I think it is a interesting idea that this is the start from were religion come from and if you also think this could be the place in the world were this must been started seen from.

MSc Magi

[George]

I go to
http://www.skyviewcafe.com/skyview.php?supersize=true
and go to tab "map" where I click in egypt to put my location from where to stand.
Then I go to Tab "Sky" and mark "Path of Sun" and "Constellations" at right.
Under Tabs I "Select a direction" to South as "S" and to the right, in options I
find "Horizon to zenith" in first and "Sky colour basic" in second.
Then change date up right to about -3003-12-24 04,10.
Time zone up right is to be +2 and daylight saving time to europe or us.

Ok, now I see what seems so interesting.

The "Path of the Sun" option is only accurate at the point it crosses the ecliptic. Click on the ecliptic option and change the months, and you will see how the "path of the Sun" changes, but the ecliptic does not. Also, you will see that the Sun stays on the ecliptic, and at the intersection of both paths.

Can someone explain to us what this "path of the Sun" actualy is representing? I don't get it. Is it the path the constellations are traveling over the daytime track of the Sun that was seen during the day?

Anyway, using the correct ecliptic path, you will see why the claims are so incorrect in their presentation.

[formulaterp]

Wow, that film is a tour de farce of conspiracy theory nonsense. Hopefully the sequel will cover UFO's, Bigfoot, Atlantis and where your socks go when you put them in the dryer.

[George]

... where your socks go when you put them in the dryer.

A fella from N. Dakota once asked me why us Texans wear boots, and I told him our secret.

[magi]

Hi.

Is there any astronomers that can answer and say if
there are any similarities between star maps from egypt and 3000 BC and the religious stories?

MSc Magi

[aurora]

There were no star maps in 3000 BC.

The stars were mostly in the same positions they are now, relative to each other. Some of the faster moving stars would have shifted position somewhat in 5000 years as seen by naked eye.

Religious stories are stories, and it is hard (or too easy, for some) to relate them to actual occurances with any certainty.

[magi]

There were no star maps in 3000 BC.

The stars were mostly in the same positions they are now, relative to each other. Some of the faster moving stars would have shifted position somewhat in 5000 years as seen by naked eye.

Religious stories are stories, and it is hard (or too easy, for some) to relate them to actual occurances with any certainty.

When I use for example Cartes du Ciel or Sky View Café and set time and place 3000 BC and Egypt I get very interesting star maps in relation to the suns path and positions.

And I think Zeitgeist and Jordan Maxwell - The Naked Truth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlbIY...eature=related

Can somebody look at the starmaps too and tell me what you think about this?

Magi

[hhEb09'1]

There were no star maps in 3000 BC.

Did you mean to say, none that have been found? Surely, there must have been some...