Venus supports other life NOT as we know it; Guth Venus

[bradguth]

In spite of my dyslexia and inabilities to tollerate those solely intent upon destroying whatever's not there idea; first of all, this topic is not of any mere idea, it's not a conjecture based upon another black hole of nothingness, but of what can be seen unless you're restricted to braille format, as there's been life NOT as we know it and perhaps (most likely) surviving on Venus and, I sincerely believe we (that's you and I) can sufficiently prove that point, at least a whole lot better off than you or I can prove we've been to and walked on the moon.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/update-187.htm

Since the rest of you disbelievers are merely snookered Borgs, pawns in someone others game of death and death (I've excluded "life" as even an option because so many opposing GUTH Venus simply should have known better), are apparently not accepting any possibility of there being other life, even if that's pertaining to their own past and/or future existence and, especially if that's pertaining to someone other's existance, as though that doesn't even matter.

Unlike yourself, I've made lots of mistakes, one of which was contacting NASA over two and a half years ago, then onto many word, syntax and even a few math mistakes, so sue me. There's still the remains or of what's current on Venus that's not naturally formed, unless of course you can locate something similar that's proven as purely natural, as I'll post a link to that and insure that you receive all the credits.

In case you haven't bothered to notice, the foundation of this discovery has been rather remarkably benefiting from the surrounding rugged terrain that's about as natural as it comes, even of what terrain is found throughout the community, of terrain that's most likely entirely natural by every definition of geology, where this accepted natural element is what's been further defining for the rather markable comparison between that which is well recognized and accepted as for being natural and, of what's otherwise most likely artificial (as in perhaps lizard made). Where the purest and subsequently ultra negative sort of person will only concede of what's looking so artificial is simply representing a strange and/or unusual collection of so many unrecorded natural things that just so happened to be collected into a highly structured community like setting, in this instance having it's own tarmac, it's own suspension bridge, it's own symmetrical collection of interconnected reservoirs, it's own highrise and other massive buildings and of it's own rigid metro airship, plus a few spheres and parabolic issues tossed in to boot, plus excavated roadbeds just for good community infrastructure impact.

OK, I'll suppose in theory, odds being at least a trillion to one, this purely natural sort of complex thing could happen in nature. Though looking at what's there to be seen, it seems rather odd to another somewhat high degree that at 180° there'd be another couple of sites worth a closer look-see. These sites being equally elevated and at least one of which is indicating a similar hangar/silo for that rigid airship. OK, so we've just crossed over the line into the trillion-trillion to one chances of that happening in nature. I'm not sure but, either of those seem like fairly bad odds, but then I'm not even a member of the "Right Stuff" cult, so apparently I'm not smart enough to know about such things. This is where you come into the picture, with even better ideas and/or proof positives either way.

Regards, Brad Guth / IEIS http://guthvenus.tripod.com

[Musashi]

Well, first of all, congratulations on overcoming dyslexia. I cannot imagine how I would begin to cope with that.

Sadly, I do not see what you claim to see in your picture. It is true that photoshop and other programs like it do not invent pixels, but zooming in past the original resolution and then using commands like sharpen or unblur, does create new pixels. It does corrupt the image. You cannot get more information out of the picture than is already there. It is not like zooming in with your camcorer, the pictures have been taken, and zooming in does not show more detail than is already in the picture.

Pesonally, I think you are reading too much into this picture.

[bradguth]

As I've stipulated and, as you can see, but apparently not, by the enlarged 1:1 where you can count individual pixels, there's a great deal more situated there than just hot rocks.

BTW; the PhotoShop type of enlargement does not run itself amuck unless you intentionally do so, plus the entire process can be reversed and, unlike those phony Apollo pictures (thermal stress and radiation proof no less) where there's no access to the originals, at least here we have access to the raw digital original to draw back upon and, as to reflect on all sorts of what so damn natural as well as opposed to what's most likely artificial.

I'll take it that you have access to such SAR images of any planet (including Earth) that depicts upon such complex patterns and of those in such a community like setting, that are your reference for making such a blatant statement as to everything being entirely natural. I look forward to seeing whatever it is that you utilize as that basis, such as a few naturally created bridges or perhaps just those images of interconnected reservoirs (a tight group of four connected to a distant 5th).
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-bridge.htm

[Jigsaw]

Hi Brad, and welcome to the BABB! Glad to see you took the suggestions and came over here. As I mentioned, apollohoax.com is set up mainly for discussing the Apollo moon landings.

However, here you are now in the forum designed expressly for discussing non-mainstream theories. =D>

You know, some folks here are willing to entertain the notion that there might be life on Venus, and I think if you give us a chance, we can get a good discussion going.

P.S. I see that this subject was also posted in Lunar Conspiracies, but I think that since it doesn't really involve the Apollo moon landings, we may as well discuss it here.

[Musashi]

I'll take it that you have access to such SAR images of any planet (including Earth) that depicts upon such complex patterns and of those in such a community like setting, that are your reference for making such a blatant statement as to everything being entirely natural.

I don't know where you see in my post a "blatant statement as to everything being entirely natural," but I'll look at it again...nope, not there. I am perfectly willing to have a friendly debate about these things, but I think you need to cool it a little.

As I've stipulated and, as you can see, but apparently not,

I am trying not to read things from your posts that are not there, and I would appreciate it if you did the same. I looked at your site a bit, and I am going to check it out some more, but there are some organizational difficulties there and I have a hard time understanding the point of some of the paragraphs there.

Don't look but, I've pitched another fit, by polishing this door knob to the point where I can see that village idiot looking right back, except that I can also see those three monkeys standing directly to one side and of warlord Bush and his comrade Blair on the other side, all looking very concerned, except as for that "see nothing monkey", as that one still has that same silly *** Bush smirk on his face (perhaps they ott to try Botoxin).

As for an opening paragraph to a discussion about pictures showning proof of life on Venus, I do not really see how it fits in.

http://guthvenus.tripod.com/images/g...s-180-info.jpg

There for example, I do not see many of the things you point out. The aircraft, the roads, the quaries, the reserviors, the domes, etc.

Many of the features you point out look just like other features, but are called different things. The connection between the reservoirs looks just like the features on the natural rock formations. The monument looks just like 50 other blobs in the picture. Cable crossing with passenger pod? I don't see it.

So, if you came here to talk to people in a rational manner, I would cut out the snotty tone and the insulting words.

[ocasey3]

Borg???
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the surface of Venus way too hot to support these kinds of structures? What would they be made of?

[freddo]

Borg???
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the surface of Venus way too hot to support these kinds of structures? What would they be made of?

You're right - anything that wants to survive there is up against it: enormous temperature and acid rain... Not my idea of a vacation spot!

Or it could be a NASA cover up :roll: ...

[ocasey3]

Maybe the picture is a microscopic image and the structures were built by intellegent anaerobic bacteria.

[freddo]

Maybe the picture is a microscopic image and the structures were built by intellegent anaerobic bacteria.

Mr Guth certainly enlarged the images enough now didn't he?

[kucharek]

I'm sorry I can't really welcome Brad here. This guy is messing around in some Usenet groups since ages with his claims only he can see. It's impossible to change his opinion any bit. Any discussion or argument with him his wasting time. You can imagine in which league this guy plays...

Harald

[Musashi]

kucharek, I got that impression. I read through some of his site and it seems to be mostly rants interspresed with incomphrensible handwaving and a lot of psuedo-self-depreciation.

[ocasey3]

Maybe he is Alan Guth's evil twin? Sorry, but I found the coincidence of his having the same last name kind of ironic.

[nebularain]

Actually, my eyes started glossing over reading his post.

I remember a previous thread we had going discussing the possibility of microscopic life in Venus' atmosphere, or something like that, based off some article presenting the possibility. Many of us, including myself, thought that would be interresting if true, but there just needs to be more evidence for us to "believe" it.

Oh wee, whatever. =;

[Kebsis]

And of course, you know what would happen if we did find life on Venus.

...the hoaxers would say that we never actually found life there, and the whole thing is a scam to get more money funneled into NASA. #-o

[sts60]

Well, Brad, I looked at your site. Sorry to say, but just like HWSNBN, your conclusions seem rather heavily over-extrapolated from the data. I've seen plenty of natural formations which look more artificial than the features called out in your images.

I liked your bit about how nasty Earth's environment would seem to someone evolved in Venus'. However, I must confess I didn't understand the reference to "Islamic lizards".

By the way, if you are trying to convince people on this board of your views, you might want to adopt a less superior tone, and avoid labeling everyone who disagrees with you as some sort of NASA disinfo agent or similar term. Or at least, since you likely have put me and several others on this board in that category, offer some evidence to back up such a claim. (Disagreeing with you is not evidence. No, I don't work for NASA.)

Cheers.

[bradguth]

I'm not going to even try to answer every question, or even return all the warm and fuzzy flak but, I'll give these few nice folks a try.

From: Musashi
"I am trying not to read things from your posts that are not there, and I would appreciate it if you did the same. I looked at your site a bit, and I am going to check it out some more, but there are some organizational difficulties there and I have a hard time understanding the point of some of the paragraphs there."

"There for example, I do not see many of the things you point out. The aircraft, the roads, the quaries, the reserviors, the domes, etc."

"Many of the features you point out look just like other features, but are called different things. The connection between the reservoirs looks just like the features on the natural rock formations. The monument looks just like 50 other blobs in the picture. Cable crossing with passenger pod? I
don't see it."

"So, if you came here to talk to people in a rational manner, I would cut out the snotty tone and the insulting words."


Hay Musashi, only warlord bush can still see those WMDs and, for that little indiscretion, thousands of nice folks have bought the farm because of it. I suppose that's perfectly OK by your anti "snotty tone" standards of observation?

Now folks, I'm certainly not the one being the "all knowing" expert here, just the goodwill messenger fore knowing that I still can't seem to locate another SAR image of anything so naturally formed that looks anything the least bit like a 2 km spanning bridge (otherwise lots of artificial stuff), nor of those interconnected reservoirs or of any collected community of structures, or of a rather significantly flat and substaintil tarmac that's situated within a very mountainous plus canyon ridge side location. Whereas my esteemed opposition seems to have become the all knowing snott about everything being entirely natural. Natural my ***, show me anything that's so natural and, otherwise don't give me any of your "snotty tone" about any of it.

If you have any source of such geological images that come even remotely close in size and/or spectrum, I'm interested to learn of such because, the vast majority of terrain that's imaged at GUTH Venus site No.1 is certainly entirely natural, hot rocks and all but, that doesn't explain away the patterns of what's looking so artificially created.


From: ocasey3
"Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the surface of Venus way too hot to support these kinds of structures? What would they be made of?"

"Maybe the picture is a microscopic image and the structures were built by intellegent anaerobic bacteria."


Just a few more of my dyslexic pages, along with numerous errors but, I'm certainly wide open for not only correcting whatever but for giving you the fullest of credits.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/heat-is-relative.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-numbers.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lizard-folk.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-air.htm

As you should know, heat is simply relative to pressure; the laws of thermal dynamics and all, including those which involve biology. You do realize that blood doesn't boil at such pressure, especially at the elevated nighttime season of Venus.

As for microbes getting involved; if those complex structures were created by any such capable microbe, then we've got ourselves a whole lot more to worry about than of anything ET existing on Venus. Lizard folk or not, big *** microbes with an attitude for surviving seriously hot places is certainly a whole lot more troubling than merely revengeful lizard folk Cathars.


From: freddo
"You're right - anything that wants to survive there is up against it: enormous temperature and acid rain... Not my idea of a vacation spot!"

You really should know better than to stipulate "acid rain", as there's no such thing. Haven't you heard; it's way too freaking damn hot on Venus for there to be any rain and, without sufficient H2O (at least nowhere near the surface), sulphur is an entirely harmless crystal or powder but, otherwise quite useful. If you want acid rain, for that substance you'll need a good rigid airship and, to go nighttime fishing into those much cooler and lower elevation clouds, where you'll have access to mega tonnes worth of pure H2O. Of course, you need to apply the laws of physics for vacuum distilling out the H2O portion, then perhaps doing a little something further in order to convert it into H2O2 for safe keeping, as otherwise pure H2O will need to be slightly pressurized and/or refrigerated. Once you've got the H2O or that in the form of H2O2, there's several methods that'll convert either substance into great volumes of just plain old H2 (on demand if need be).


From: kucharek
"I'm sorry I can't really welcome Brad here. This guy is messing around in some Usenet groups since ages with his claims only he can see. It's impossible to change his opinion any bit. Any discussion or argument with him his wasting time. You can imagine in which league this guy plays..."

That's not true about "impossible to change his opinion any bit", as I'll learn from others and, I'll even post credits as well as posting links to whatever resources you've got that'll qualify such patterns as for being created by natural causses. Geology and of the erosions that contribute to creating nearly all that we see on Earth, as well as for Mars, seems to be working just fine and dandy, so I have no difficulty whatsoever, as I see all those common rock formations and mountains, just as I clearly see the primary rille or channel/canyon formation and erosions or tectonics and, I even clearl see those secondary (newer) erosions associated with all sorts of most likely natural causses such as the "fluid arch" consideration, unless of course you've got another better idea and the supportive image of how those sorts of items are not of natural formation, as in that case I don't know what it is that you're driving at.


From: nebularain
"I remember a previous thread we had going discussing the possibility of microscopic life in Venus' atmosphere, or something like that, based off some article presenting the possibility. Many of us, including myself, thought that would be interresting if true, but there just needs to be more evidence for us to "believe" it. "

I do believe ESA's Venus Express will in fact deliver that evidence, even though I've come to believe that life on the surface is a whole lot more possible than not, especially when there's so freaking much natural energy all about in order to do something for improving upon the likelihood of survuiving a truly tough greenhouse environment.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/co2-windpower-03.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/energy-options.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-energy.htm
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/positive.htm

At least unlike Mars, Venus surface radiation isn't a factor, especially during their cooler season of nighttime. Speaking of radiation; I've been building my knowledge upon such the hard way, on the "need to know" basis of doing this without the help of others a whole lot smarter than myself. The page is becoming another worth a look-see and, I'm entirely open for corrections and/or better ideas for shielding something like ISS for VL2.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/space-radiation.htm


From: sts60
"Well, Brad, I looked at your site. Sorry to say, but just like HWSNBN, your conclusions seem rather heavily over-extrapolated from the data. I've seen plenty of natural formations which look more artificial than the features called out in your images."

Great words of wisdom; lets see those images. I'll not only learn from them but, I'll post a direct link as well as give you all the credits.


"I liked your bit about how nasty Earth's environment would seem to someone evolved in Venus'. However, I must confess I didn't understand the reference to "Islamic lizards"."

I've recently changed my views upon the Islamic factor, as they could be Muslim lizard folk or just nasty Cathar lizard folk. I'm thinking, if any could survive, they'll likely have to be about a tough to kill off as bin Laden or Saddam.


"By the way, if you are trying to convince people on this board of your views, you might want to adopt a less superior tone, and avoid labeling everyone who disagrees with you as some sort of NASA disinfo agent or similar term. Or at least, since you likely have put me and several others on this board in that category, offer some evidence to back up such a claim. (Disagreeing with you is not evidence. No, I don't work for NASA.)"


I'm only being difficult (returning the favor) when others are counter-imposing by their views based upon nothing whatsoever, not willing to fork over their images of such creative natural formations that supposedly look so much like a rational community that's hosting a tarmac, a substantial bridge, of multiple reservoirs, an airship and otherwise all sorts of interesting structures as wellas infrastructure that just so happen to be located at a fairly good elevation and within a fairly rugged one at that.

I'd have to assume, if there's no documented reference material nor laws of science and/or of physics backing up the opposition (geology as well as biology I believe still functions within those factors), that there must therefore be some ulterior motive at play, perhaps even pagan worshiping going on. Such as those Apollo pictures taken on the moon can't possibly be used in any court of law because, there's still no original negatives or transparencies, not to mention that so many of those images indicated nearly 50% reflective terrain as well as for containing illumination "hot spots", plus none of the thousands of such images never indicated any radiation fogging nor thermal stress (how pathetically odd).

I certainly have no problem with anyone disagreeing, though most pro-NASA souls seem quite willing to toss out a little flak by their stipulating that those very artificial looking patterns are merely of common hot rock, even though there's no other image being offered of such creative hot rocks nor even of any creative frozen and radiated to death Mars rocks, where I'd even be receptive to polluted Earth rocks. This discovery is hardly as pathetic nor as pixel limited as the Mars face, although the frozen Mars forest certainly looks interesting.

Many of my supporters that are not entirely convinced, they haven't been so rude as to insist that everything in the image is entirely natural, as that would not only be foolish but, it'll obviously **** me off to no end, unless of course they're offering something of merit in order to back up their stance, as for that I'm willing to concede.

BTW; I'm not "superior", at least nowhere as superior as most Borg and not to mention braille opponents, as I'm only the village idiot that can still see without utilizing a Borg implant and, one that knows damn well what something looks like if viewed from an airplane, even though I simply can't put two and two together without making a few too many mistakes while also having to flinch over those involved with the Apollo sting/ruse that has bled over into the Magellan mapping of Venus, now adversely affecting what's to be seen in at least some of those Magellan images. Not to mention 9/11, there's Apollo bad blood and subsequent bad DNA just about everywhere.

So, if as you say you're not a pro-NASA Borg and, if you're the least bit capable of working a little outside the "nondisclosure" box, then there's lots of most interesting things to be getting involved with. The fact that you see something other than I do is certainly not to be unexpected, as I've been taunted by many on just about every item and subject, such as the following page is where I've tried to focus upon the bridge consideration, as for being one of the least complicated of issues to discuss. If it's not a constructed bridge; then what the hell is it?
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-bridge.htm

[Musashi]

Mr Guth, I would suggest that you seriously revise your tone.

Hay Musashi, only warlord bush can still see those WMDs and, for that little indiscretion, thousands of nice folks have bought the farm because of it. I suppose that's perfectly OK by your anti "snotty tone" standards of observation?

I know you have a hard time staying on subject, but what does Bush or WMD have to do with this topic? I suppose it's perfectly ok to bring up irrelavent arguments in your "everyone that is not me is a Drone even though I am just a village idiot" fake self depreciating style of argument.

If your latest is any indication of how you get your thoughts across, than I suggest that you get some learning under your belt and then come back to argue.

I've recently changed my views upon the Islamic factor, as they could be Muslim lizard folk or just nasty Cathar lizard folk. I'm thinking, if any could survive, they'll likely have to be about a tough to kill off as bin Laden or Saddam.

Oh look, more nonsense. What are you talking about?

I certainly have no problem with anyone disagreeing,

It certainly doesn't seem that way.

Many of my supporters that are not entirely convinced, they haven't been so rude as to insist that everything in the image is entirely natural, as that would not only be foolish but, it'll obviously **** me off to no end,

Now that is truely a wonderful sentance. First of all, it is not rude to suggest that everything in that picture is natural. Second of all, I never insisted that. Finally, it is good to know that disagreeing with you will **** you off, even if it is a contradiciton of what you have said before.

Good luck in life Mr Guth.

[Archer17]

.. If it's not a constructed bridge; then what the hell is it?
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/venus-bridge.htm

A figment of your imagination. Of all the planets and moons in the solar system why play "Hoagland" with Venus?? Why the confrontational attitude? You didn't expect everyone here to jump on your bandwagon, did you? Did you really think this thread through when you posted it, or was it done intentionally to provoke a response? Venus has a temperature over 800 deg F, an atmospheric pressure about 90 times that of Earth, and in addition to it's primarily carbon dioxide atmosphere, it's clouds are composed of sulfuric acid droplets... not a very conducive environment for life of any kind, let alone those you propose. If you want to come across as credible, I suggest you tone down the insults and stick to the topic you started -- Venus.

[The Bad Astronomer]

When I saw that Brad Guth, known USENET and email troll, had joined the BABB, I decided to give him a chance. I see I made a mistake. This thread is locked, as are the rest he has started, and he is banned.