A question about French onion soup

[weatherc]

This question stems from an argument that I had with my 94 year old grandmother. She likes to order French onion soup at restaurants, but she doesn't like it to be served with the cheese on top. She swears that onion soup didn't used to come with the cheese on top, and that this is some sort of recent phenomenon. I told her I have never heard of such a thing; I was under the impression that onion soup with cheese on top went back even further than my grandmother does.

What I'm thinking is that she's remembering back to World War II, and that many things were being rationed, possibly including the cheese that was put on top of onion soup. She may have started eating onion soup just when there didn't happen to be any cheese on it, and then never got used to it when it went back to its more traditional form.

With that said: Does anyone know if French onion soup has always been served with cheese on top? Was there ever a time (such as during the war) that onion soup was served without the cheese? Was there a regional preference about whether the soup got cheese on it or not (my grandmother lived in New York State and New York City up until the late 40s)?



P.S. -- I promise if I find out that I'm right that I won't go and tell my grandmother she was wrong. I just want to know for my own benefit.

[Ronald Brak]

You put cheese in onion soup? First time I've heard of that. I'm pretty sure the French don't put cheese in it. I think it's very likely that granny is correct. Especially when you consider that onions are cheap and cheese expensive. Nowadays dairy subsidies are a couple of hundred million dollars a year in the U.S. and although they started in the 1930's I think it was probably in the fifties that they really took off.

[weatherc]

French onion soup, at least here in the U.S., is usually served with a large crouton or toasted bread on top (which fits the shape of the top of the bowl), and on top of the crouton is cheese.

[PetersCreek]

It looks like French onion soup with cheese on top is at least as old as your grandmother...

"Soupe a l'oignon.--Si vous desirez gouter a cette soupe si appreciee des disciples de Bacchus, preparez-la selon les indications suivantes: Faites revenir dans due beurre (pour deux litres de lait), un gros oignon, coupe en tranches fines; quand l'oignon est bien dore, mettez le lait et le sel et laissez suire. Preparez ensuite dans votre souiere, de fines tranches de pain que vous recouvrez de fromage de Gruyere rape, continuez ainsi jusqu'a mi-hauteur, versez dessus votre bouillon et servez."
— L'Arte du Bien Manger, Edmond Richardin [Agence General de Librarie et de Publications:Paris] 1913 (p. 517)

[Emphasis mine. Sorry I don't have a translation...my French is far too bad for that.]

[weatherc]

It looks like French onion soup with cheese on top is at least as old as your grandmother...

"Soupe a l'oignon.--Si vous desirez gouter a cette soupe si appreciee des disciples de Bacchus, preparez-la selon les indications suivantes: Faites revenir dans due beurre (pour deux litres de lait), un gros oignon, coupe en tranches fines; quand l'oignon est bien dore, mettez le lait et le sel et laissez suire. Preparez ensuite dans votre souiere, de fines tranches de pain que vous recouvrez de fromage de Gruyere rape, continuez ainsi jusqu'a mi-hauteur, versez dessus votre bouillon et servez."
— L'Arte du Bien Manger, Edmond Richardin [Agence General de Librarie et de Publications:Paris] 1913 (p. 517)

[Emphasis mine. Sorry I don't have a translation...my French is far too bad for that.]

Thanks. That information at least lets me know that I'm not insane.

[tlbs101]

I have only ever had it with cheese. I wouldn't eat it any other way -- and it *is* better with Gruyere, not some cheaper cheeses.

Now you've done it ... I have to go get some for lunch.

.

[Ronald Brak]

Wow, they put milk in it too.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Always, always with cheese. French-Canadian family, here.

[Doodler]

I have only ever had it with cheese. I wouldn't eat it any other way -- and it *is* better with Gruyere, not some cheaper cheeses.

Now you've done it ... I have to go get some for lunch.

.

Provalogne isn't bad. I've had it a few different ways. Some with the croutons, though my preferred mode is with the single piece of baguette bread on the bottom of the bowl.

[tdvance]

Wow, they put milk in it too.

It's even better if you put various potent potables in it.

The best French Onion Soup I've tasted was from Carol's Creek restaurant in Southport, Annapolis, MD--made with wine.

Todd

[weatherc]

It's even better if you put various potent potables in it.

The best French Onion Soup I've tasted was from Carol's Creek restaurant in Southport, Annapolis, MD--made with wine.

Todd

That sounds really good.

[PetersCreek]

Lore connected to the dish has it that Louis XV (or a Louis close to that number) himself made the first French onion soup with onions, Champagne, and butter.

[Ronald Brak]

Sounds like I've been missing out.

[Argos]

I like mine with cheese on top [it´s perfectly ok], and some slices of Italian bread.

[jfribrg]

I consider myself a French Onion Soup expert insofar as I always order it at a restaurant if it is on the menu. IMHO, it isn't French Onion Soup if it doesn't have a crouton and cheese. I don't care how the French prepare it, I like the crouton and cheese. Also, if most of the cheese is in the crock insead of melted on the outside, then opinion of the chef is greatly diminished. The best part is peeling the cheese off of the crock after the soup is gone.

[Ronald Brak]

Last time I had french onion soup it came out of a packet. It consisted of dehydrated onion, starch, salt, and brown. I added water, heated it, ate half and threw the rest out. I considered eating it all but I decided to save my willpower in case I ever needed open heart surgery without an anesthetic instead.

[Gillianren]

Thanks. That information at least lets me know that I'm not insane.

That is a different question.

For what it's worth, Alton Brown is on your side. He had an episode of Good Eats in which he made French onion soup, and he covered it in his beloved Gruyere.

[weatherc]

That is a different question.

[PetersCreek]

I for one question his sanity for arguing with his 94-year-old grandmother. If she's anything like my grandmother, were winning the argument was even remotely possible, only misery would follow.

[R.A.F.]

I thought it was called French Onion Soup because the onions were French.

[Matherly]

Last time I had french onion soup it came out of a packet. It consisted of dehydrated onion, starch, salt, and brown.

Alton Brown is on your side

These quotes, one after the other, made me laugh. I guess Brown doesn't make that good of a soup after all

[weatherc]

Last time I had french onion soup it came out of a packet. It consisted of dehydrated onion, starch, salt, and brown. I added water, heated it, ate half and threw the rest out. I considered eating it all but I decided to save my willpower in case I ever needed open heart surgery without an anesthetic instead.

The difference between onion soup that comes in a packet and real French onion soup is like the difference between... well, I can't even think of a simile that quite captures the amount of difference between these two things. They are just that different, and one is much, much better than the other.

[Fazor]

Just to point out how weird I am... I cannot remember ever having french onion soup. I know I must have at one point, because every time I see it or even hear the words, I think to myself, "Man, I should have some!"

So in other words, I love French Onion soup, despite the fact that I cannot ever recall having it.

[Maksutov]

The difference between onion soup that comes in a packet and real French onion soup is like the difference between... well, I can't even think of a simile that quite captures the amount of difference between these two things. They are just that different, and one is much, much better than the other.

It's like the difference between those things they serve at McDonald's that have the consistency of cardboard, and a real hamburger. And that's not even considering what the Arch Villains call a "cheeseburger".

Getting back to edible food, I always thought it was called "French onion soup" because it was a French recipe for onion soup. And in my experience bread and cheese are two essential ingredients.

[Paul Beardsley]

I wonder if cheese and onion crisps should just be called "onion crisps" as the cheese is sort of implied? Or, given Mak's point that bread is also an essential ingredient, but obviously isn't present in cheese and onion crisps, perhaps they should be called "onion without bread crisps"? (That's "oignon sans pain crisps" in Leg Language. Oops, wrong thread.)

[Sticks]

But don't you guys across the pond now call it Freedom Onion Soup to go with the Freedom Fries

[Maksutov]

That kind of terminology is now passé.

[toejam]

My "Larouse Gastronomique" English edition 1967 differentiates between onion soup and onion soup gratinee. The soup is the same, but the gratinee is served over "slices of bread dried in the oven, arranged in the serving bowl in layers, each layer being covered with grated cheese. Then the top of the soup is sprinkled with cheese & melted butter & then browned in the oven."

The plain onion soup leaves out the cheese & butter but is still served over crouton slices. (if you can call bread dried in the oven a "crouton".)

[novaderrik]

Last time I had french onion soup it came out of a packet. It consisted of dehydrated onion, starch, salt, and brown. I added water, heated it, ate half and threw the rest out. I considered eating it all but I decided to save my willpower in case I ever needed open heart surgery without an anesthetic instead.

the only way i've ever had French Onion soup was the packet style- but instead of adding water to it, you dump the packet in some sour cream and make a really awesome dip for potato chips.
mmm.. chips...

[mike alexander]

Maybe it's similar to German's Chocolate cake, and some guy in Idaho named Billy French published an onion soup recipe in the Ketchum Independent Democrat-Republican Food Notes column. Originally called "Billy's Onion Soup", the apostrophe and s were dropped, resulting in the French Onion Soup of today.