Newbie
I hope no one has posted this before, I screened through a lot of the threads and didn't find it so I assume not.
http://chfbs.org/high_school/high_sch_math.htm
Yeah, read it. I wish I could get a look at their curriculum, I can't even imagine how they plan to synthesize God and Mathematics.
Aren't we supposed to be out of the Medieval Age?
Banned
Sounds like someone is very interested in teaching a totally valid curricula but relating everything to God.
They still learn the math, so what's your beef?
Order of Kilopi
A babtist school relating things to God? For shame.Originally Posted by mugaliens
Yes; I'm agreeing with mug.
Order of Kilopi
Personally I'm against lying.
Order of Kilopi
what are they lying about?
Order of Kilopi
You are? It must be weird to sleep while standing up...
If this is a private religious school like it sounds like (I didn't follow the link, and there's no information in the post), then who cares? If you don't agree with it then don't send your kids there. That's the nice thing about having the freedom to make personal choices.
edit: korjik and Ronad Brak, just some advice, you probably don't wanna go there, in this forum.
Established Member
My first reaction was "oh no, what does their science curriculum look like?"
Science/History curriculum
It actually sounds pretty reasonable. Note the heavy emphasis on the use of the scientific method. I actually get the impression that some people worked very hard to design a curriculum that imparts a solid foundation in math and science, with just enough religious overtone to be accepted by this Baptist institution.
Banned
hmmmm... while I have great concerns about mixing religion with mathematics, I don't know that the simple mixing requires lying. If I'm wrong perhaps you could site a specific example...
I don't know... perhaps irrational numbers are an attempt by the gods to warning us against an over dependence on rationality...
on the other hand, they may just be messing with our heads...
Order of Kilopi
Ok Gillian!You are? It must be weird to sleep while standing up...
Order of Kilopi
I'm not sure exactly what they are getting at, but it sounds more like they are teaching math for what math is, but using the faith to describe why it works out so perfectly.
And, they probably have some interesting word problems... If 30% of the congregation sinned...
Order of Kilopi
Firstly, you probably shouldn't insult Gillian by compairing her to meOk Gillian!(j/k)
Secondly, naw, there was no gramatical error (AFAIK), but the conjugated form of lie, lying, has multiple meanings for the same spelling. Its one of the word pairs that I find most confusing (Lie and lay conjucation), even after the thousands of "lie/lay" worksheets we did for homework thoughout school :-P
That, and trying to conjugate die and dye. ...in the words of the great Ralph Wiggum, "Me fail english? That's un-possible!"
Banned
Well... I will wait until I see the curriculum before I brand it as teaching lies...
Order of Kilopi
I know! (in bold)Firstly, you probably shouldn't insult Gillian by compairing her to me
Secondly, naw, there was no gramatical error (AFAIK), but the conjugated form of lie, lying, has multiple meanings for the same spelling. Its one of the word pairs that I find most confusing (Lie and lay conjucation), even after the thousands of "lie/lay" worksheets we did for homework thoughout school :-P
That, and trying to conjugate die and dye. ...in the words of the great Ralph Wiggum, "Me fail english? That's un-possible!"
My wife has been drilling the use of lay/lie (among other grammar things) into my head for so long that I always pause before I use one of them. It makes speaking difficult sometimes. Oh well . . .
Order of Kilopi
I appreciate Fazor giving me some advice earlier and as a result I thought I'd better stay out of this thread, but since it's also impolite of me to not explain myself after being asked what I meant, I'll just give a little explanation by anology and then leave this thread.
If you say, "I believe the Apollo photos are fake," then I have no problem with that, you can believe what you want. But if you say, "The Apollo photos are fake," then I'd expect you to be able to either produce reasonable evidence that they are fake or failing that, accept that you can't be certain they are fake. When a person demonstrates the ability to apply reason and analytical ability in their life but refuses to apply these abilities to certain matters so that they become dogma, I think it is a failure of integrity and is dishonest.
Note that this is just my opinion and I believe everyone is free to believe differently. If anyone wants to discuss this issue specifically, please start a new thread that has no mention of religion in it.
Banned
I can understand this, however, I would personally suspend judgment until I see the curriculum. Certainly there are "Christian" schools and academies in this coungry that integrate religious belief with academics. I don't know that this in itself indicates that they are teaching lies...
Order of Kilopi
What I have to say is quite similar to Lurker's comment. I would have to see what the actual course material is before I pass judgment. There is a fairly large population that believe everything comes from god. Add those who think that studing something is studing god because everything comes from god, and you would end up with what you see in the discriptions.
The way they put the descriptions is what they believe, so I think that calling it lying may be a bit strong.
May be a bit strong is the key here. If the actual curriculum is crummy, then you are right. I just dont think the jury is out quite yet
Banned
There are some excellent scientists and mathematicians who are deeply religious; Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu. I don't think that holding a deep religious conviction necessarily interferes with one's ability to perform rigorous scientific investigation.
Edited to Add:
I would add that science and engineering are deeply indebted to the great work of Muslim mathematicians who believed that they were but empty vessels through which Allāh reveled his divine truths.
Established Member
They're lying because God is inferior to mathematics.
Order of Kilopi
Well, I in no way meant that you shouldn't participate in the thread, but I just thought we were close to a point where emotion might take over reason, and I hate to see one or more regulars end up on the wrong side of the rules and wind up suspended. The reason BAUT is such a great forum is in no small part due to the entertaining and insightfull minds of it's regular memebers, and it pains me to see them get suspended/banned. Unfortunately, it's enevadable that some discussion is going to be in danger of crossing the line.
Established Member
The only thing I can come up with after reading that is "HOO BOY!!"
tbm
Order of Kilopi
Order of Kilopi
I have gone through the trouble of removing religious refferences from the passage so we can discuss it in this forum:
MATHEMATICS
GEOMETRY
Students will examine the nature of a supernatural being as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a supernatural being was the inventor of that consistency. They will see a supernatural being's nature revealed in the order and precision they review foundational concepts while being able to demonstrate geometric thinking and spatial reasoning. The study of the basics of geometry through making and testing conjectures regarding mathematical and real-world patterns will allow the students to understand the absolute consistency of a supernatural being as seen in the geometric principles it created. Students will demonstrate an awareness of the structure of a mathematical system, connecting definitions, postulates, logical reasoning, and theorems while exploring attributes of geometric figures. Students will make and verify conjectures about angles, lines, polygons, circles, and three-dimensional figures through coordinate and transformational approaches. Through the knowledge of conditional statements and their converses, constructing and justifying statements about geometric figures and their properties, students will begin understanding the concepts of constructing geometrical proofs. Students will be able to solve problems with the use of formulas for the areas and volumes of polygons and circles while applying them to real-world situations; in addition, they will develop and improve their spatial visualization and reasoning skills with three-dimensional figures. As they investigate properties of parallel lines, students will write deductive arguments to justify their conclusions and apply those properties to real situations. Students will apply their knowledge of triangles to develop properties of parallelograms, trapezoids, and kites as they continue developing their mathematical reasoning abilities and their algebraic skills by learning to write coordinate proofs. Right-triangle trigonometry will be introduced in the area of sine and cosine ratios and vectors. Finally, students will study circles from an algebraic point of view by writing equations of circles in the coordinate plane.
ALGEBRA II
Students will examine the nature of a supernatural being as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a supernatural being was the inventor of that consistency. Mathematical study will result in a greater appreciation of a supernatural being and its works in creation. Students will extend their mathematical knowledge beyond Algebra 1 by continuing to develop an understanding and usage of advanced algebraic concepts including functions, polynomials, rational expressions, complex numbers, systems of equations and inequalities, and matrices. Students will develop calculator skills.
PRE-CALCULUS
Students will examine the nature of a supernatural being as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a supernatural being was the inventor of that consistency. Mathematical study will result in a greater appreciation of this supernatural being and its works in creation. Students who have successfully completed Geometry and Algebra 2 will develop skills in advanced algebra, analytic geometry, and trigonometry. The students will focus on the mathematics concepts that connect the thoughts of the mind with the realities of the universe, experiencing the creative power and order of a supernatural being.
CALCULUS
Students will examine the nature of a supernatural being as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a supernatural being was the inventor of that consistency. Mathematical study will result in a greater appreciation of a supernatural being and its works in creation. The students will understand the basic ideas of both differential and integral calculus and its importance and historical applications. The students will recognize that a supernatural being created our minds to be able to see that the universe can be calculated by mental methods.
Established Member
No, you didn't.
Established Member
If I could link both your posts together Lurker as they are very well thought out.
and this one:-
Clearly this is a curriculum that is entered by the student with the knowledge that they want it taught this way. This in no way invalidates the mathematics which clearly would be taught for what it is ... math.There are some excellent scientists and mathematicians who are deeply religious; Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu. I don't think that holding a deep religious conviction necessarily interferes with one's ability to perform rigorous scientific investigation.
Edited to Add:
I would add that science and engineering are deeply indebted to the great work of Muslim mathematicians who believed that they were but empty vessels through which Allāh reveled his divine truths.
No problem. By selecting the right teaching institution for ones beliefs is a highly appropriate thing to do. Until the math is understood it is a process of logical and intuitive learning. As a member of any community it would be very important to know the belief that one practiced and its application to the mathematics being taught.
Mathematics in itself is a process of logic and deduction, measure and application, it is accuracy and having an influence not taught that corresponds with the community would be damaging to say the least. What if one was to be inspired and put their own interpretation to mathematics without understanding the values of their community.
In short it would be a recipe for social disaster. The mathematics would not be affected but certainly the student could be if not guided in the belief of their choice. Not wanting to be rude but is editing out all belief references a veiled method of promoting an atheistic model of mathematics?
The real question is secularism. Is teaching mathematics without consideration of the values of those being taught a clear plug and therefore showing an unbelievable religious bias to promote and encourage atheism?
Good teaching and careful consideration by both teacher and student should empower the student to be confident in the choices they make through learning high quality mathematical skills.
I can only offer one case in point, mine, where my plunge into a world of mathematical possibility which has changed my beliefs and so broadened my horizons that I am more totally comfortable with what I now believe than this time last year.
Isn't that sort of independent and fair approach viable? Teach the mathematics requested by the student and if the answers justify a change of belief in any direction then it was the value of the mathematics and not the cold hard limitations of ignorance that encouraged it.
I would rather live in a world where I could choose any model for learning mathematics and let the value of what is learned speak for itself!
Order of Kilopi
I find that people can generally believe in the existance of supernatural beings such as leprechauns and fairies without having these beliefs described as religious, however, I do appreciate that you may think I have not sanitized it enough to make it suitable for this forum. I'll try again.No, you didn't.
GEOMETRY
Students will examine the nature of a non-human intelligence as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a non-human intelligence was the inventor of that consistency. They will see a non-human intelligence's nature revealed in the order and precision they review foundational concepts while being able to demonstrate geometric thinking and spatial reasoning. The study of the basics of geometry through making and testing conjectures regarding mathematical and real-world patterns will allow the students to understand the absolute consistency of a non-human intelligence as seen in the geometric principles it created. Students will demonstrate an awareness of the structure of a mathematical system, connecting definitions, postulates, logical reasoning, and theorems while exploring attributes of geometric figures. Students will make and verify conjectures about angles, lines, polygons, circles, and three-dimensional figures through coordinate and transformational approaches. Through the knowledge of conditional statements and their converses, constructing and justifying statements about geometric figures and their properties, students will begin understanding the concepts of constructing geometrical proofs. Students will be able to solve problems with the use of formulas for the areas and volumes of polygons and circles while applying them to real-world situations; in addition, they will develop and improve their spatial visualization and reasoning skills with three-dimensional figures. As they investigate properties of parallel lines, students will write deductive arguments to justify their conclusions and apply those properties to real situations. Students will apply their knowledge of triangles to develop properties of parallelograms, trapezoids, and kites as they continue developing their mathematical reasoning abilities and their algebraic skills by learning to write coordinate proofs. Right-triangle trigonometry will be introduced in the area of sine and cosine ratios and vectors. Finally, students will study circles from an algebraic point of view by writing equations of circles in the coordinate plane.
ALGEBRA II
Students will examine the nature of a non-human intelligence as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a non-human intelligence was the inventor of that consistency. Mathematical study will result in a greater appreciation of a non-human intelligence and its works in the universe. Students will extend their mathematical knowledge beyond Algebra 1 by continuing to develop an understanding and usage of advanced algebraic concepts including functions, polynomials, rational expressions, complex numbers, systems of equations and inequalities, and matrices. Students will develop calculator skills.
PRE-CALCULUS
Students will examine the nature of a non-human intelligence as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a non-human intelligence was the inventor of that consistency. Mathematical study will result in a greater appreciation of a non-human intelligence and its works in the universe. Students who have successfully completed Geometry and Algebra 2 will develop skills in advanced algebra, analytic geometry, and trigonometry. The students will focus on the mathematics concepts that connect the thoughts of the mind with the realities of the universe, experiencing the creative power and order of a non-human intelligence.
CALCULUS
Students will examine the nature of a non-human intelligence as they progress in their understanding of mathematics. Students will understand the absolute consistency of mathematical principles and know that a non-human intelligence was the inventor of that consistency. Mathematical study will result in a greater appreciation of a non-human intelligence and its works in the universe. The students will understand the basic ideas of both differential and integral calculus and its importance and historical applications. The students will recognize that a non-human intelligence created our minds to be able to see that the universe can be calculated by mental methods.
Hopefully now we can discuss ideas in the passage without bringing religion into it.
Order of Kilopi
It's more tedious than appalling. It's also pointless. If all of their textbooks irrelevantly mention God multiple times per paragraph the students will become used to it and will stop noticing that it's there. Or maybe they'll come to think of God as an annoying pest that's bothering them while they're trying to learn something.
Established Member
If that belief is weaseled into a math lesson, then it's made obnoxiously religious, especially when part of the math lesson is also that the supernatural beings created us.
Calling God by some other name doesn't make the concept unreligious. The only way to make a math lesson unreligious is by not infusing such a concept into it at all.
Order of Kilopi
If that belief is weaseled into a math lesson, then it's made obnoxiously religious, especially when part of the math lesson is also that the supernatural beings created us. It might be obnoxiously religions in your opinion, but like it or not that just an opinion. That's why you wouldn't attend said school. The people who choose to attend the school also choose to believe said beliefs. I doubt they'll find it obnoxious.
Established Member
So essentially are you saying mathematics is incapable of being understood by someone who has a belief system?
Or is mathematics a concept that can be tainted by someones point of view and as such is weak and misleading?
Member
Very simply....that is appalling to me. No more to add
Order of Kilopi
I freely admit that substituting non religious terms in the passage is a far from perfect solution, but currently I have no better ideas on how to make the passage suitable for this forum. By discussing the altered passage If we look at the first sentence of the altered version.
I really doubt that they will. I don't think they will examine the nature of non-human intelligence in their maths class. Therefore I don't think this sentence is true. The students might learn maths, but not the nature of a non-human intelligence. Therefore I think this statement is most likely a lie. In the same way that if I had told you I was going to teach you how to bake a cake but instead I taught you how to build a birdhouse, I would have lied.Students will examine the nature of a non-human intelligence as they progress in their understanding of mathematics.
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