Any good designs for a spacesuits?
No. Organic carbon falls into hot lower regions where it's liberated as CO2 again.
We know much more about Venus now, so there's a better series of ways to do it.
Even if it could work, Venus would revert back to a hellish world because…
Seeding the clouds must be preceded by lowering the temperature with a gigantic shade.
Wouldn't Venus need a moon as well as a new atmosphere?
Any good designs for a spacesuits?
It's like prefering a location 1 kilometer underwater in a pitch-black ocean to a spot on ground level with sunlight when colonising a planet.
*don't get political now
EDIT: Ok, a lot of posts suddenly! Ok, so Venus is not as terrible as we think? Would someone in a space suit survive standing on the surface?
And you can see the Sun when it is between the clouds.
And my base is utilitarian and don't think I will enyoy (by your qualities, for me, every celestial body is unique and interesting) arthrosis on the Mars or the Moon.I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT VACATON, you will not get as much from the Moon or Mars as from Venus.
And lige is not only about fun....from what you will build that casino, from moon metal poor rock or from martian ice?
And I actually would enyoy being on Venus temporarily, because;
-it is different
-it is interesting
I will explore.
And base on non-terraformed Venus is billion times cheaper than terraforming and it will be ready in a few years, not terraforming thousand of years.
Air castles are beatiful but that will completely elimitanate the purpose of my colony - mining.
A good artistic image of the surface of Venus;
Yes, it is dark and barren, but no fire lakes or sufluric acid rain/seas or demons or tormented people . It is like overcast day on Earth in the (rocky, volcanic) desert.
And if the deep sea submarine would get from the 1 km deep water where is the same pressure as on Venus but +85 percent density, then rocket will certainly start from the Venus.
And a colony in the clouds will have problems with 300 km/h winds and long time erosion by H2SO4...
There is no ACID on the surface, but there are the resources for what we are looking for.
And unique scientefic observation...if you terraform it you will destry the nature and we will never reveal it's secrets because it all will be uniform - Earth-like.
Did anyone see 'The Fifth Element'? I was thinking of Phloston Paradise with the flying luxury liner (which, of course eventually explodes). There is also the game Freelancer (with around 50 explorable solar systems) that also feature a company that offers 'paradise planets' and (orbiting) luxury liners.
But if it's mining you're after, you need a different approach. Who knows, these two factions might one day peacefully coexist on and above Venus
Mercury will be a great source of metals, Venus of the same materials as Earth except oil of course, asteroids, if metal rich, will be also useful.Some iron from Mars and some metal and helium 3 from the Moon will be also useful, but outer solar system icy moons of gas planets will be not much useful, except as a source of water for Mercury and Moon colonies.Probably even hydrogen from the gas giants can be mined.
My list of potentional mining colonies in Sol system, arranged from the best to the poorest:
1.Mercury (EXTREME amouts of metals)
2.Venus (metal, minerals)
3.Mars (water, iron, metals, minerals)
4.Moon (some metals,minerals, helium 3 - to fusion reactors)
5.Titan (methane fuel, some water)
4.Gas giants (hydrogen, helium)
6.Metal and mineral rich asteroids
5.Ceres, other asteroids and comets (water) and icy moons (also water)
6.Pluto (too far away to be feasible even in the far future, a bit of methane and water)
The low gravity bodies (asteroids and comets) will be mined invasively using robots, other colonies will have some sciencific/recreational uses except Pluto, because of extremly low gravity and being too far away.
EDIT:A good idea about planets used both ways , because even the recreational colony will need some materials, fuel and water, but also the personell maintaining the surface mining operations needs some vacation...but in the early years of the space colonisation, there will be a rotating crew and they will go to a vacation on Earth.
Or the air casyles should provide water and oxygen - send some of these to the ground.SYMBIOSIS of a luxus hotel and a mining colony !
Microbes help terraformnig will be cheap and great..but not possible cos the carbon will burn with the 60 bar oxygen..must first freeze the planet.
Better keep those miners happy!
With the spacesuit required for the movement on wild, untamed Venus, you will not be able to mine with pickaxe .
And; could be diamonds on Venus?There are a lot of volcanos...
Trying to speculate on Venus transformation goals using today's technology as a basis is actually much more exciting than simply falling back on simple comic book anecdotes (like floating cities) which actually have less engineering basis than the giant sun shields and surface domes.
For now - the most important thought I can add to this is: the sum of all workable technologies would be greater than the individual parts, and it is the combination of these technologies through stages, to different levels, that in theory might transform Venus from stage to stage.
After reading the posts in this thread it's clear to me that either believer is living up to his/her name and is sincere, in which case the posted content was inappropriate by rule 12, or he/she is deliberately baiting posters here, in which case it's inappropriate by rule 14, disruptive posts.
In neither case is it bullying to point this out.
Reductionist and proud of it.
Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. Benjamin Franklin
Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat tails. Clarence Darrow
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. Mark Twain
LOL, Occam, I was originally going to write "venera incognita" but didn't for some reason. I forgot most of my college latin.
Second is insolation. A cloud city can use both direct sunlight and sunlight that is reflected from the clouds, so that it could have PV or thermal power systems on top or bottom or could use terraces for agriculture. However, an orbiting station can only use the sunlight that falls directly on it except when they are in shadow, and the rapid revolution and more rapid rotation of an orbital station makes lighting more dynamic, requiring more frequent adjustment.
Third is atmosphere. A could city is protected from solar and cosmic radiation and most meteors by the atmosphere at altitude, but an orbiting station would need to bring it's own solar shielding and heavy shielding may be worse than none when it comes to cosmic ray cascades. A cloud city would have time to repair a leak because of the similarity is gas densities inside and outside and precautions might require the use of simple respirators. However, a leak in a spaceborne station is a catastrophic emergency that can lead to rapid hypoxia and anoxia and would require an entire pressure suit for survival.
Fourth is resources. A floating city would be able to extract material directly out of the atmosphere and is capable of supporting surface mining operations with relatively straightforward and low energy aerostats and aerodynes (balloons and planes). An orbiting station would not be able to mine anything and transferring material between the surface and orbit would require big rockets. Of course, cloud cities would also need rockets for ascent and perhaps for the initial descent, but once in place they could mine, refine, and manufacture material for their own purposes. Furthermore, cloud cities can create their own rocket fuel in situ, but orbiting stations cannot.
Fifth is safety. As mentioned above the atmosphere provides safety from many space hazards. There might be hazards unique to Venus cloud cities in the form of turblence and volcanic eruptions, but these are analogous to hazards on earth. Mobile cloud cities may be able to avoid volcanoes that are erupting or threatening, and aerostatic or aerodynamic methods may be used to avoid or mitigate turbulences. If required, aircraft could evacuate residents from one cloud city to another one if there was an imminent threat, and this would be simpler in an atmosphere than trying to rendezvous ships and stations in orbit.
All things being equal, or equivalent, a cloud city can do more with less when compared to an orbital station. It requires less volume, less energy, less technological complexity and less mass and can perform tasks that are simply not possible with an orbital station.
As for why even be in the vicinity of Venus, I can imagine many services a floating venus colony could provide. It could be a base for solar observations and maintaining solar satallites which will be critical for warning of solar weather. It could farm food for earth's minions in an environment that is arguably safer than floating farms on earth's oceans or agri-forming currently non-arable land on earth. It could also be a major source of raw life support materials for colonies on the moon, Mars and beyond. It's rapid orbit makes it a better location for staging emergency missions to other space assets that may be on the other side of the sun from the Earth at the time of the emergency.
As for m1omg's ideas, high temperature materials will not make the surface livable. The materials may be useful for robot missions to the surface by humans cannot survive those temperatures. Insulation does not stop heatflow, it mearly slows it down. Even a vacuum shell would warm up via radiation and conductivity through the few hard points you may have. Eventually (probably rapidly), a dome on the surface of venus would be as hot inside as it is outside. Refrigerants won't work because they require moving heat from one location to another, but there is no cooler location to dump the heat when you're on the surface of Venus. This is true of any spacesuit you would try to use. You might be able to get away with modules that cool via offgassing cryogenic liquids, but that would extend your stay for mere hours, or a few days at the most. Therefore you would still need support from other locations, such as floating cities, where you can intermittantly recharge those cryogenic coolant tanks and cool off the pressure vessels used on the surface. Ascent from the surface could probably be performed by using the principle of boyancy (balloons), perhaps filled with the off-gassed coolant.
Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.
Transforming Venus is not done in a straight line, like pouring algae on the planet and it turns into Earth, but might be achieved rather through a multitude of baby steps with each goal as an end in itself.
1. Cooling and CO2 removal to transform from a hellish nightmare world into a nightmare world.
2. Different tech to transform from a nightmare world into a kind of Earth-sized Mars-like terrestrial world, unlivable without life support.
3. Different tech applied to transforming the terrestrial arid world into a water supporting world.
Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.