Anger after a trip to the bookstore

[Bawheid]

You know, seriously, there is no appropriate place for books like that, including fiction. It's a lie presented as truth and distributing it is irresponsible.

Well I, for one, would be sorry to see them go. I love reading cranks' writings. Yes, I like laughing at them, but I also find it fascinating to try to work out what was going on in their heads.

I had a look through the Stargate Conspiracy today. It's a wonderful piece of crank writing. At first, it seems to be an anti-crank book, debunking all the cults that claimed the Ancient Egyptian gods were really aliens and discussing how the cults arose.

But it turns out to be a crank book after all.

I am the proud owner of a copy of the Stargate Conspiracy and it easily the worst book I own, and I have a copy of Oliver North's autobiography. I did buy it knowing it was a nonsense but it turned out to be worse, in fact it is (chooses word carefully for Gethen's benefit) codswallop.

[robin]

I am the proud owner of a copy of the Stargate Conspiracy and it easily the worst book I own, and I have a copy of Oliver North's autobiography. I did buy it knowing it was a nonsense but it turned out to be worse, in fact it is (chooses word carefully for Gethen's benefit) codswallop.

Most crankery isn't pleasant to read in detail, but it still fascinates me that it exists. I find it fun to treat them as puzzles, to work out how they arrived at such a view of the world. Some are more interesting than others, of course. If they've just made a mistake, that's not too exciting; the best cranks take a very few facts and spin a whole alternate world out of them. If they start flitting randomly between physics, metaphysics, mathematics and history, you've hit gold.

As I said, I just looked through Stargate Conspiracy in the bookshop, and I was intrigued. But if it's not so amusing once you get into it, I'll take your word for that.

[Bawheid]

It is the usual start with a fact, take the obvious conclusion, move on to the next logical position, and on and on, except the obvious conclusion is suspect and the logic is dubious. It isn't even internally consistent.

Buy a good book instead.

[robin]

Sounds like just the sort of thing I enjoy, the way you put it. But then, I'm weird.

[Maksutov]

I was also angered recently at books a million. I asked to be directed to the astronomy section. The employee took me around the store, and i found myself staring at new age and astrology crap. She was obviously confused! I've yet to return.

You remember Carl Sagan's story about being a kid in Brooklyn, going to the library, and asking for literature about stars. He wound up being given a bunch of Hollywood fan magazines. #-o

[Spacewriter]

I posted a rant on my own blog a while back about a foray I made to Barnes and Noble late last year. We were looking to see if they had copies of my book in stock yet. It's an astronomy book, so we started looking on our own for the science section. We found 8 rows (ROWS) of mythology, pseudo-science, New Age Crystal bunkum, religious prophecies, and other such stuff, but couldn't find the science section.

Finally I asked and the dweeb at the desk looked thoughtful, then puzzled, then frustrated, then got a piece of paper out to check it. Then he brightened up and said, "I think we have a few science books over in the computer section."

Sure enough they did, over in the corner, facing a back wall, have a couple of shelves of science, shoehorned into the computers and languages section. No signage. No nothin'. Not even my book, although I understand that it wasn't in stock at that time.

I don't recommend B&N to anybody who is serious about finding science books. Their selection is, shall we say, a bit lacking. Borders is a little better, but there's a reason I point people to Amazon on my web site (aside from the referral points). They do have access to everything.

Of course, if I know about indy booksellers, I recommend folks try them too... the best one I ever cultivated was Tattered Cover Books in Denver.

[milli360]

Of course, if I know about indy booksellers, I recommend folks try them too... the best one I ever cultivated was Tattered Cover Books in Denver.

I used to go there and browse. Nice place, but I can be happy almost anywhere.

[Maksutov]

I think libraries were invented, in part, for crank books. That way we can read them without buying them. :wink:

[Taibak]

I posted a rant on my own blog a while back about a foray I made to Barnes and Noble late last year. We were looking to see if they had copies of my book in stock yet. It's an astronomy book, so we started looking on our own for the science section. We found 8 rows (ROWS) of mythology, pseudo-science, New Age Crystal bunkum, religious prophecies, and other such stuff, but couldn't find the science section.

Finally I asked and the dweeb at the desk looked thoughtful, then puzzled, then frustrated, then got a piece of paper out to check it. Then he brightened up and said, "I think we have a few science books over in the computer section."

Sure enough they did, over in the corner, facing a back wall, have a couple of shelves of science, shoehorned into the computers and languages section. No signage. No nothin'. Not even my book, although I understand that it wasn't in stock at that time.

I don't recommend B&N to anybody who is serious about finding science books. Their selection is, shall we say, a bit lacking. Borders is a little better, but there's a reason I point people to Amazon on my web site (aside from the referral points). They do have access to everything.

Of course, if I know about indy booksellers, I recommend folks try them too... the best one I ever cultivated was Tattered Cover Books in Denver.

To be honest, that sounds more like a case of the person in charge of that section not doing his or her job. At the Barnes and Noble in Saugus, MA, where I work, we keep our science section well stocked. It's also on the other end of the building from the New Age section (which, incidentally, is further away from the fiction section than I'd like :roll: ). The astronomy bay is even the best in that section. I enjoy poking through it on breaks.

[Spacewriter]

To be honest, that sounds more like a case of the person in charge of that section not doing his or her job. At the Barnes and Noble in Saugus, MA, where I work, we keep our science section well stocked. It's also on the other end of the building from the New Age section (which, incidentally, is further away from the fiction section than I'd like :roll: ). The astronomy bay is even the best in that section. I enjoy poking through it on breaks.

Hmmm... Saugus is pretty far away for me. If it was closer, I'd give it a try. I tried another B&N over in Natick (I think) and ran into the same problem; hidden science books, few good pickings, etc. Do managers have leeway in how much they stock of a certain topic?

I also went over to Tatnuck in Worcester and found it to be okay... still a little light on the science in favor of new age crystally stuff, but they do have a nice restaurant...

[milli360]

Do managers have leeway in how much they stock of a certain topic?

Are you thinking perhaps you live in a woo-woo infested part of town?

[Spacewriter]

Do managers have leeway in how much they stock of a certain topic?

Are you thinking perhaps you live in a woo-woo infested part of town?

No, not really. I now have two data points for B&N and one for Tatnuck, so I don't have a trend; just a suggestion that some topics (science) don't sell as well as others (new age crystal hand wavy feel-good aromatherapy-will-awaken-your-inner-aura stuff).

The two B&Ns were in Natick and Nashua (maybe it's something to do with the letter "N")...

[TheGalaxyTrio]

A credit card and amazon.com shall set ye free.

I think I personally kept amazon's West Coast operations alive during their early years.

[HenrikOlsen]

You know, seriously, there is no appropriate place for books like that, including fiction. It's a lie presented as truth and distributing it is irresponsible.

Stick them with the other religious writings?

Or roleplaying sourcebooks?
I can think of several of the woo-woo books you could base an alternate earth style game on.

[PeterFab]

Or roleplaying sourcebooks?
I can think of several of the woo-woo books you could base an alternate earth style game on.

It has been done, sort of.
Kenneth Hite's books 'Suppressed Transmissons' and 'Suppressed Transmissions 2' contains articles meant to add spice to roleplaying games.
In ST2 there is an article 'One Giant Leap After Anaother: Lunatic Theories' where he mentions Richard Hoagland's theories.

[AstroSmurf]

The "GURPS Mars" sourcebook was kinda interesting that way. It included several scenarios, from more realistic to fairly "out there". Interestingly, the author(s) was definitely of the opinion that Hoagland and Velikovskiy are on drugs, though the ideas might be used for entertainment purposes.

[PeterFab]

The "GURPS Mars" sourcebook was kinda interesting that way. It included several scenarios, from more realistic to fairly "out there". Interestingly, the author(s) was definitely of the opinion that Hoagland and Velikovskiy are on drugs, though the ideas might be used for entertainment purposes.

Yes, I liked GURPS Mars too. And Ken Hite definetely also considers Hoagland and Velikovsky to be out of contact with the real universe, but good for gaming.

[Tensor]

Interestingly, the author(s) was definitely of the opinion that Hoagland and Velikovskiy are on drugs, though the ideas might be used for entertainment purposes.

Sorta like we use them for entertainment purposes....

[Zac]

You know, seriously, there is no appropriate place for books like that, including fiction. It's a lie presented as truth and distributing it is irresponsible.

As the great prophet Sagan once said in regard to Velikovsky's idea that Venus was spat out of the Jovian system and wrecked havoc in the solar system (being responsible for many of the events descibed in the bible) until it settled into it's current orbit:

"There are hypotheses in science that are wrong. That's perfectly all right, it's the aperture to finding out what's right. Science is a self correcting process. To be accepted new ideas must survive the most rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny. The worst aspect of the Velikovsky affair is not that many of his ideas were wrong or silly or in gross contradiction of the facts, rather, the worst aspect is that some scientists tried to surpress Velikovsky's idea. The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion or politics, but it is not the path to knowledge, and there's no place for it in the endeavour of science. We do not know beforehand where fundamental insights will arise from about our mysterious and lovely solar system. The history of our solar system shows clearly that accepted and conventional ideas, are often wrong and that fundamental insights can arise from the most unexpected sources."

[mickal555]

Hello
every time I go into a newsagent and ask for the astronomy section looking for sky and space magazine (I havent found yet). They just stare blankly at me 8-[ and I get embarresed (I am 13) and take me to the astrology/new age section witch is what the plastic card says (nothing about science up there), and mixed into the astrology/new age are the science and astronomy magazines they havent even got a section to themselves its like they have been sqashed into UFO sightings and rubish
its very sad . They never help me.

[aurora]

A credit card and amazon.com shall set ye free.

I think I personally kept amazon's West Coast operations alive during their early years.

I really like Powells, they have a web site at powells.com

I like the way they handle used books better than the way amazon does it.