Does a Big Rip preclude the possibility of Eternal Recurrence?

[BISMARCK]

If the Universe continues aging without end, then, at least from what I've read, random quantum fluctations must eventually produce all possible states of existence, given that anything that has a greater than zero probability must happen when given an infinite amount of time. From reading that essay, this includes de facto copies of you and me, living out the same lives we've lived, over and over again.

So, in a Big Rip scenario, would this be possible? Or would any particles that pop into existence in the vacuum just immediately be ripped apart? Would the expansion of space preclude the existence of any other thing whatsoever?

[astromark]

No. . .

And with some research into this interesting idea. . . . No.

The great expansion that has been called the big bang is a stand alone incident. The why and how are as yet unexplained. We do not know that it has not happened before or some where else.

Our knowledge only reaches 13.7 billion light years. We have no idea what might be beyond our field of view.
Random speculation is pointless as the perimeters are unknown. Anything is possible or just as likely not. Its all one ? You will implode your mind dwelling on this. We just do not know.

[Peter Wilson]

Speculating 10 gazillion years into the future is a lttle silly.

But that's what you get when a washed-up folk-singer goes into astrophysics

[BISMARCK]

Well it's fun anyway.

[Warren Platts]

. . . anything that has a greater than zero probability must happen when given an infinite amount of time. From reading that essay, this includes de facto copies of you and me, living out the same lives we've lived, over and over again.

This idea goes back to at least Nietzsche's doctrine of "eternal recurrence" (cf. SEP article), and probably some strands of Hindu theology as well. I don't buy it though. It pretty much does away with free will, for one thing. Also, eternity is a long time; so the odds are that we are much closer to the beginning of time than at the end of time. So many new episodes are possible, the universe will never get around to broadcasting reruns.

[BISMARCK]

Well, in theory, matter could arrange itself so that your life would play out in exactly the same way, and all it would take is an atom on the Moon to move a little differently for it to not be a "rerun."

[Peter Wilson]

This idea goes back to at least Nietzsche's doctrine of "eternal recurrence"...I don't buy it though. It pretty much does away with free will, for one thing...

I don't buy that.

So somewhere, a billion kagillion lightyears away, some creature very similar to me is posting a very similar post...

How does that take away my choice, here & now, to decide what my next word will bee?

[mugaliens]

If the Universe continues aging without end, then, at least from what I've read, random quantum fluctations must eventually produce all possible states of existence, given that anything that has a greater than zero probability must happen when given an infinite amount of time. From reading that essay, this includes de facto copies of you and me, living out the same lives we've lived, over and over again.

Statistically speaking, yes - given infinate age and size it's theoretically possible.

However, given the vast number of combinations required to form de facto copies, it's nearly statistically impossible.

[BISMARCK]

Right, but, hypothetically speaking, with an infinite amount of time, doesn't that mean that it must happen?

[Kwalish Kid]

For there to be recurrence, a system has to be closed and have the same physical laws roughly applicable. In the case of a universe that has an increasing expansion rate, it is impossible to define a closed area. Additionally, it is impossible to claim that the same physical laws are equally applicable to even aan defined by a co-moving coordinates (coordinates that expand with the expansion), because the density is decreasing.

[mugaliens]

Right, but, hypothetically speaking, with an infinite amount of time, doesn't that mean that it must happen?

Statistically speaking, no, it does not. It simply means that it could happen. The odds are, however, against it, even in an infinately large universe.

However, I will acceed that if things were truly infinate, in both time and distance, then yes, there would also be infinate copies of everyone, down to every last molecule, action, spoken word, thought, and history.

However, I'd have to say that there's no evidence to date that supports we have a truly infinate universe, and I think someone once calculated there are around 10^496 quarks in the entire universe (not just the known universe). If that were the case, it would be a trivial matter to demonstrate the gross statistical bais against such duplicity at our scale (billions of billons of atoms, and that's just in a single drop of sweat!).

[Jens]

If the Universe continues aging without end, then, at least from what I've read, random quantum fluctations must eventually produce all possible states of existence, given that anything that has a greater than zero probability must happen when given an infinite amount of time.

I think it is possible, though, to have a temporally infinite universe that never repeats itself. It is possible to have an evolving system that never repeats itself. For example, the universe could be moving from a situation with almost zero entropy toward one with larger entropy, but never having been in a state of 0 entropy and never reaching one of infinite entropy.