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Thread: Pioneer 10's Anomaly

  1. #61
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    Myles Standish
    That was also the name of the leader of the Pilgrims. Wierd.
    Well, it wasn't me.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    The reason there are scientific papers written concerning anomalies, is that science tries to explain the observation using current standard physics. When it appears to fail, the next step is to try new hypotheses...

    In general, I personally support Nereid's and Cougar's discomfort in jumping to new physics (I do not support the dark matter or dark energy hypothesis).
    The Faraday story is interesting: New physics were a matter of coarse in his century. Today, new physics are only resorted to when they are necessary to salvage the existing model. I am talking specifically about the Dark Matter and Dark Energy hypotheses you eschew.

    Whenever there is anomalous data such as the Pioneer experience, we should retest: Eliminate variables. Simply assuming there is something that the researchers are missing is unfair to them, and an offense to the spirit of discovery.

  3. #63
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    Pioneer Anomaly

    In reply to Jerry's, "Whenever there is anomalous data such as the Pioneer experience, we should retest: Eliminate variables. Simply assuming there is something that the researchers are missing is unfair to them, and an offence to the spirit of discovery."
    I do not disagree with your thought. First try to eliminate simple explanations. If the anomaly still remains, try different hypothesis, to try to resolve the anomaly.

    Comment:
    In this case, I believe the Pioneer anomaly is real. I think I can see a link between a group of anomalies. I have a rough hypothesis, with no new forces or particles, that seems to explain what is observed. I will see if I can tidy it up and see what you guys think. Probably take a couple of months.

    It would be funny if the hypothesis is correct, as it seems a bit obvious, if the anomalies are viewed as a group rather than individually. Particularly if no new physics is allowed.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by William View Post
    In this case, I believe the Pioneer anomaly is real. I think I can see a link between a group of anomalies. I have a rough hypothesis, with no new forces or particles, that seems to explain what is observed. I will see if I can tidy it up and see what you guys think. Probably take a couple of months.
    How about a sneak preview? You never know, somebody might have some further insights or show why it isn't possible.
    As above, so below

  5. #65
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    ...or show why it isn't possible.
    Or is possible.

  6. #66
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    Spacecraft Motion Anomalies

    Additional Spacecraft motion anomalies.

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...t-anomaly.html

    Mysteriously, five spacecraft that flew past the Earth have each displayed unexpected anomalies in their motions. …
    These newfound enigmas join the so-called "Pioneer anomaly" as hints that unexplained forces may appear to act on spacecraft. …
    A decade ago, after rigorous analysis, anomalies were seen with the identical Pioneer 10 and 11 spacecraft as they hurtled out of the solar system. Both seemed to experience a tiny but unexplained constant acceleration toward the sun.
    …Now Jet Propulsion Laboratory astronomer John Anderson and his colleagues — who originally helped uncover the Pioneer anomaly — have discovered that five spacecraft each raced either a tiny bit faster or slower than expected when they flew past the Earth en route to other parts of the solar system.

  7. #67
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    101101011 started a new thread on this article.

    There are six sets of anomalous data relative to near-earth events that I am aware of 1) Gravitational assists, 2) Periodic displacements of the the GPS satellites during calibration 3) Displacement of Faulcutt pendelums during the delta g maxima, 4) Gravity 'B' probe calibration anomalies 5) Differential weights found in the continental mass standards when they are brought together. 6) Different values measured for 'g' in various locations.

    It would be interesting to pull the net residuals for all of these unexpected observations together and look for threads of commonality.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It would be interesting to pull the net residuals for all of these unexpected observations together and look for threads of commonality.
    I have to agree with you there. I bet we'll see the results of such studies before the end of 2010. (I give such a long timeframe, because I think it will take a while to figure out how to work all the results together)
    Forming opinions as we speak

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    [snip]

    3) Displacement of Faulcutt pendelums during the delta g maxima,

    [snip]
    What is a "Faulcutt pendelum", a "delta g maximum"?

    I am unfamiliar with either term.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nereid View Post
    What is a "Faulcutt pendelum", a "delta g maximum"?

    I am unfamiliar with either term.
    Nereid. I think that's Foucault pendulum...fixed plane of oscillation relative to the distant stars....Mach's principle. pete

  11. #71
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    Delta g maximum is when the rate of change in the net gravitational force vector is the greatest. It is an interesting phenomenon that has not always been repeatable, but it has shown up often enough in well-controlled situations that it shouldn't be written off as an artifact...yet.

    Good but old overview:

    http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/head...t06aug99_1.htm

    http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf074/sf074a05.htm

    There was a lot of anticipatation prior to the 1999 solar eclipse, but very little follow-up on what was actually observed. I suspect the results were rather ambiguous:

    http://pass.maths.org/issue9/xfile/

    Tis year's eclipse in August, NASA and other groups attempted a range of experiments to finally confirm or deny the result. Their conclusions are still awaited, though at PASS Maths we have already heard that one laboratory in Austria replicated the effect.
    http://home.t01.itscom.net/allais/bl...a/wuchterl.htm

    ...We propose a mechanism, based on pressure-modulated air drag, to account for the observed deviations. An eclipse-effect on a Foucault pendulum can then be explained as air drag modulation caused by the atmospheric pressure modulations due to the moon's shadow.
    Obviously, more testing is needed.

  12. #72
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    Before you ask, I had nothing to do with this.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by trinitree88 View Post
    Nereid. I think that's Foucault pendulum...fixed plane of oscillation relative to the distant stars....Mach's principle. pete
    Ah yes, I expect you are right, trintree88 ... it seems many of Jerry's posts contain errors in key terms (and worse), errors that may be sufficiently severe as to lead to serious misunderstanding ...

    So, Jerry, did you intend "Foucault pendulum"?

  14. #74
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    I once typed 'James West Telescope' - and failed to correct it. Much of what I type comes out phonetic, and I have to go back and plink threw it again. I presented on the foulcutt pendulum effect, I wonder how i spelled it then. Sometimes, I have to admit, I will leave something wrong just to see who is still listening (Try posting an equation where the units don't add up, and Celestial Mechanic always pops out of the woodwork.)

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