Anyone see "300"?

[Blob]

Hum,
faster than the Cutty Sark

[Serenitude]

Strangely enough, I never get tired of formulaic, chliche'd Hollywierd action movies, as long as the fights are cool.

I've just always been a fan of hoplite-style fighting my whole life. Reading LotR as a child, I always imagined myself with a spear and shield at the Gates of Mordor. When D2 hit, I was always a Javazon. Morrowind? Spear-guy. NWN? Spear Weaponmaster. Guild Wars? Paragon I'm glad that this movie is hitting, in that I hope it stimulates some to read about the real conflict, and if not learn some real history (it's rather complicated to work out exactly just what happened...), at least be stimulated enough to explore and interpret for themselves.

However, for myself, I'm just interested in watching some cool phalanx and hoplite fight scenes

[Lord Jubjub]

I was just watching the online Ebert & Roeper review. They showed the clip of Xerxes threatening doom to Sparta.

Xerxes was definitely channelling the G'ould.

[angrynight]

I've just always been a fan of hoplite-style fighting my whole life.

I first learned about the Hoplites in history class and how improved technology allowed the Romans to take them down. I've loved military strategy ever since. I even came really close trying for a career as a military officer . I'm consequently a huge fan of RTS games like Command & Conquer.The only problem is that they're built for balance not realism. I wish there was a high-quality true-to-life mainstream simulation I could find easily.

[Serenitude]

I wish there was a high-quality true-to-life mainstream simulation I could find easily.

Or at all Good luck. And if you find one, let me know. I'd be interested as well

[Damien Evans]

Or at all Good luck. And if you find one, let me know. I'd be interested as well

me too, though Rome: Total War seems to do a pretty decent job

[V-GER]

Yeah, I was crushed when I found out Captain America and Hellboy didn't really exist.

Not as crushed as I was when I found out Captain America had died...

RIP Steve Rogers, 1941- 2007(until they bring him back of course).

[Blob]

I hope it stimulates some to read about the real conflict, and if not learn some real history...

Hum,
indeed,

An Iranian archaeologist and expert on the Achaemenid era has called the Hollywood film 300 racist and hostile towards historical realities.
In an opinion piece published on the Cultural Heritage News Agency website, Professor Shahrokh Razmju accused the film's producers of fabricating history and insulting Iranian culture.
He went as far as to suggest that they should be sued in court for charges of racism.

Read more

[Musashi]

I am crying for them.

[V-GER]

Hum,
indeed,



Read more

The Iranian historian is hardly objective himself. Also I think it's hilarious that he wants Unesco to "take measures" against the film makers. Considering the views their president has expressed about mid 20th century history, the Iranians aren't in a position to lecture anyone.

[Blob]

Hum,
while it is possible the historian is speaking for the entire country and/or agrees with president on 20th century history, i don't know.

[V-GER]

I doubt the esteemed professor would disagree with the goverments view of history, could be wrong of course(I hope I am actually). Just wanted to bring up a point in response to the article.

Anyway, I'm not too sympathetic for their/his offence. Every time someone mentions the words "insulting the culture of...." as a reason to punish someone I get upset.

[Musashi]

Yes, I am holding my breath waiting for the professor to acknowledge the holocaust or condemn his president for denying it.

[Gillianren]

Okay, we got the graphic novel from the library yesterday (yay for putting it on reserve a couple of months before the movie came out), and I have to say, while there are some differences between the two (the whole romantic subplot, say), I was astonished at how word-for-word it was in places. Quite a good adaptation, really, as adaptations go.

And, yes, the graphic novel would have been NC-17 if filmed as drawn, though there were exposed breasts in the film but not in the novel.

[V-GER]

I picked it up from the post office an hour ago, looks amazing. I glanced through it and spotted a few images from the movie trailer(or rather the other way around since the comic came first but anyway).

[debateaway]

The Iranian historian is hardly objective himself. Also I think it's hilarious that he wants Unesco to "take measures" against the film makers. Considering the views their president has expressed about mid 20th century history, the Iranians aren't in a position to lecture anyone.

What makes you think that you are in a position to say that "Iranians" are not in a position to lecture anyone? Can you please elaborate on that? As humans we can lecture whoever or when ever. It is up to the individual to listen or not. Are you implying that because of what our president says we can not express our own views??? LOL. Great logic you have there. (I do not agree with our government before you start labelling me an extremist supporter)

Perhaps it may be hilarious that he wants Unesco to take measures against the film makers (Nice sense of humour you got there). Each individual has a right to take certain actions deemed necessary, now if you think that is funny then I think you have displayed a behaviour that resembles ignorance (however Iam sure you are not ignorant...well I do not think that yet but watch this space...heheh). Personally I think that action is unnecessary as opposed to hilarious. (You have failed to look beyond the reason to why he thought his actions were necessary)

I have read some threads about 300 and I must admit I have not seen but I can not help but feel hard done by. Yes there are many ways at looking at the film as many people may just say its a film but from the threads I read and the preview I found some of things offensive and derogative. Yet If everyone had my view this potentially would open a can of worms because to say that this film is offensive then that means 50% of all the other films can be looked at as offensive too i.e. Borat, Braveheart etc So I am in a catch 22 lol. However I would like to mention the fact that there may be movies out there that may offend other countries i.e. England, America etc.... but then again there are lots of films that supports England and America. But you have to ask yourself; has there been a huge film that supports Persia? So far Alexendar and 300 have been made and they are both quite derogative towards Persians (or Iranians). I find that a very convenient coincidence. Also some people say it is just a comic made 10 years ago how could it be politically motivated????? well errr it can because why did they release the film out now??? (for those of you who dont know Iran and America are experience some er..er..technical difficulties at the moment).

Finally I can not believe someone would say this film us educational as it is clearly not because of the inaccuracies. But what many people forget is that there are many uneducated people out there and this film does not help!!!! Also remember most of the text out there that captures the war between the Persian and Spartans (or other Greek factions) is actually written by Greeks!!!! Most of the Persian texts were burned when we were conquered by the Arabs and Mongols.

[Blob]

A technically exciting videogame of a film, 300 loses touch with a critical and moving event in Greek history.
Herodotus, the “Father of History,” told many good stories, but there are few tales in his repertoire that surpass his narrative of the last-ditch stand of the Greeks against numerically superior forces at the pass of Thermopylae in August, 480 B.C. A huge military force led by Xerxes, the Persian King of Kings, crossed the Hellespont from Asia into Europe, intent on the subjugation of Greece. Whether Xerxes intended this invasion as revenge for the Athenian victory over the Persians at Marathon a decade earlier or whether his expedition had been planned all along as the natural extension of Persian rule into Europe is still a matter of debate among modern historians.

Read more

[Musashi]

Happy No Ruz, welcome to the board.

The reality is, it is just a movie. It does not advocate for the hatred of Persians. It seems like a silly thing to get so upset about. It smacks of hypocrisy to condemn 300 but let the hardliners in Iran (like the President and the Ayatollah) make ignorant and inflammatory comments.

[Disinfo Agent]

I would not classify the current Ayatollah as a hardliner, necessarily. But this is politics...

I agree with debateaway that anyone can criticise a film, even president Ahmadinejad.

[Musashi]

Oh, I too agree that anyone should be able to criticize (or voice any other opinion they have about) a film.

[Gillianren]

Most war films are, by their very nature, going to show someone in a bad light. Because this one is from the Spartan perspective, the Persians are shown as the villain. It's true that no one's written this particular story from the Persian perspective, but it wouldn't be very dramatic storytelling, if you think about it.

For example, think about this. "An untold number, but an awful lot, of Persian soldiers drawn from all corners of the Empire came, fought, and lost their lives to 300 Spartans (with the aid of roughly 7000 other Greeks who left before the last attack)." Would you see that movie if it were from the Persian perspective? It's historically accurate, to be sure, but it doesn't portray the Persians in a very favorable light even seen from their perspective, if you think about it.

It's true that there aren't a lot of great historical stories known in the West showing the Persians as the good guys, but since our primary storytellers of the era were the Greeks and the Hebrews, logically, there wouldn't be.

And welcome, debateaway.

[Serenitude]

Welcome to the BAUT forum, Debateaway!

Our forum has strict rules concerning political discussion outside of the scope of science and astronomy, so I'll be general in my statement.

Hollywood is driven by making money, not historical accuracy. Unfortunately, in the post 9/11 America, there is not a huge demand for entertainment glorifying Persian invasion and conquest. I do not mean this as a slander. I mean it in the sense that if a studio spent $110 dollars making such a film, they'd lose $110 dollars. I think you'll find, if you have read this thread, that a general sentiment expressed is a hope that the film drives viewers to research the account in more detail and learn the history behind it.

[Delvo]

Most war films are, by their very nature, going to show someone in a bad light. Because this one is from the Spartan perspective, the Persians are shown as the villain.

I'm reminded of another movie based on a true historical "desperate last stand" against ridiculous odds... but just try to imagine the reaction if someone tried to redo "Zulu" today.

[Blob]

Hum,
i think the problem was that they only knew how to sing `the men of Harlech`

[angrynight]

It smacks of hypocrisy to condemn 300 but let the hardliners in Iran (like the President and the Ayatollah) make ignorant and inflammatory comments.

Without getting too political (tough it really is tempting, I'm very political). Muslims like me keep getting told very similar things. Let me make one thing clear, we can disagree all we want, but to accuse us of letting people say things is to assume a level of freedom that doesn't exist. Do you know what Persians allow Ahmedinijad to say? Whatever the hell he wants. To say that for people to be credible they have to risk their lives is very unfair. This message and any reply is probably too political for this board. So if you want to reply come over to my blog through this link.

[Serenitude]

I think you misread the sentiment, angrynight. I don't think anyone has accused modern Persians in general of this. They have accused a particular leader, much as half of America does not agree with President Bush. Without being intimately familiar with other's thoughts, I don't think anyone intended to state otherwise. I think "let" is used in the most general, global sense, and not to imply that you condone his statements by sharing geological area.

It's good that you provide a link to your thoughts should the reader wish to continue the political discussion, as it is flirting dangerously with plunging headlong over the cliff of forum decorum and political rules, and I'd hate to have to shut down a thread over what is probably a simple miscommunication of ideas

[angrynight]

It's good that you provide a link to your thoughts should the reader wish to continue the political discussion, as it is flirting dangerously with plunging headlong over the cliff of forum decorum and political rules, and I'd hate to have to shut down a thread over what is probably a simple miscommunication of ideas

You assume my intentions are noble, when really I'm just trying to get more people to visit my blog.

[Serenitude]

You assume my intentions are noble, when really I'm just trying to get more people to visit my blog.

Nah. I tend to think the worst in everyone. I'm just having a Freaky Friday

[Jim]

I've been thinking about the statement made by Prof. Razmju and the responses to it here. At first, I tended to agree that it was at least overreaction and borderline hypocritical. But, upon further thought, maybe we shouldn't be so harsh.

We have no evidence that he was not told what to say, or that he really disagrees with Ahmedinijad's statements on the Holocaust, or anything beyond his stated belief that 300 has racist overtones. How would you feel if one of your national heroes were portrayed as a villian in a movie (based on a comic book based on a movie based on the other side's version of what happened)?

Take his statement at face value. That is his opinion and he's entitled to it.

We don't have to agree, and maybe we should just leave it at that.

[Musashi]

I certainly agree that Razmju should be allowed his opinion. I just think his calls for UN intervention are a bit ... overboard and speak to a larger issue.


Edit: BTW, angrynight, I am trying to post a comment to your journal but it is not very responsive (maybe getting hammered right now).