To build the Great Pyramid today

[Caryn]

If we took 100,000, 200,000 even, of the strongest most skilled, totally motivated manual laborers on earth today, with the top structural engineers in charge of them, and gave them the best food and accomodation, and all the necessary tools, raw, materials and stones that the ancient Egyptians had, all readily to hand, but no power tools or use of electricity, is it within our purview to be able to build a Great Pyramid today?

If not, why not?

Approximately how long would it take?

And if they were allowed all the latest power tools, cranes, tractors, diggers etc? Could they do it, even then?

[Sticks]

It would not be possible today for the following reasons

• How will you ever get planning permission - someone is bound to say it is a blot on the landscape
• Who is going to stump up for this, and how will they get a return on their investment?
• How coulld you get it passed the environmental impact assessment
• How could you get a risk assessment done for such a project
• Someone is bound to object to all that quarrying (See above about environmental impact)
• The height to which it is to be built - Can you get the approvall from the FAA ?
• Who are you going to get to build it? and will you be avble to get them their work visa's

[Blob]

Hum,
it is probably better to build a huge dam, say, on the Colorado or Yangtze River, with a unused labour force.

[Swift]

Ignoring the work permit, political, and environmental issues, I have no doubt it could be built. I recall a TV program several years ago where some archaeologists lead a group of local laborers in Egypt through the various steps of cutting blocks and moving them around. It was all quite doable. I couldn't quickly google a link. Not sure how long would it take, I'm guessing a long time (a couple of years?)

[Caryn]

In the UK work rules have tightened up so much after the 1987 Kings Cross fire, that just to dig a hole really is as depicted below!

[Doodler]

If we took 100,000, 200,000 even, of the strongest most skilled, totally motivated manual laborers on earth today, with the top structural engineers in charge of them, and gave them the best food and accomodation, and all the necessary tools, raw, materials and stones that the ancient Egyptians had, all readily to hand, but no power tools or use of electricity, is it within our purview to be able to build a Great Pyramid today?

If not, why not?

Approximately how long would it take?

And if they were allowed all the latest power tools, cranes, tractors, diggers etc? Could they do it, even then?

Took'em a couple years to build the MGM Grand, but it looks pretty sweet.

1) Why in the heck would you use slab stone in this day and age. Facades maybe, but structure? Way too expensive to cut and ship. If for some reason we were to do one in the 21st century, I'd be all over cast-in-place concrete.

2) Cheap labor is no problem, at least in the US. Spanish fluency is suggested, though.

3) Why would we build a pyramid, anyway? Its a tomb for a type of national leader that simply doesn't exist anymore, so its something of an obsolete concept to begin with.

[Whirlpool]

If we took 100,000, 200,000 even, of the strongest most skilled, totally motivated manual laborers on earth today, with the top structural engineers in charge of them, and gave them the best food and accomodation, and all the necessary tools, raw, materials and stones that the ancient Egyptians had, all readily to hand, but no power tools or use of electricity, is it within our purview to be able to build a Great Pyramid today?

If not, why not?

Approximately how long would it take?

And if they were allowed all the latest power tools, cranes, tractors, diggers etc? Could they do it, even then?

I think not profitable to built such a thing today.
Pyramids before are built as tombs for their deads then.
If it will be built today , what would be its use?
Not pretty same thing as a cemetery .

[Romanus]

Could we build it with no power tools or tractors? Absolutely. But as others have said, who would want to?

[Caryn]

My question is theoretical.

According to this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_P...ction_theories
the method of construction that was used is still not at all clear.

Even the numbers of workers is not sure, with estimates from 30,000 up to 360,000, or even 500,000!

[Serenitude]

Nearly all of the construction methods are understood to some level, not only for the pyramids but for such things as the obelisks, etc...

[sarongsong]

...Its a tomb for a type of national leader that simply doesn't exist anymore...

Who was buried in the Great Pyramid?

[jamini]

Who was buried in Grant's tomb?

[Serenitude]

Who was buried in Grant's tomb?

So would that make the answer Pharoah Great?

[novaderrik]

Who was buried in the Great Pyramid?

wasn't Khufu buried there?

[eburacum45]

100,000 men for 20 years is Herodotus' figure; the tmescale seems right- even a little rushed.
From Wiki
"The accepted values by Egyptologists bear out the following result: 2,400,000 stones used ÷ 20 years ÷ 365 days per year ÷ 10 work hours per day ÷ 60 minutes per hour = 0.55 stones laid per minute "
But would 100,000 men be any faster than 30,000 men? It may be that there is a practical limit on the number of people who can work on a stone at once.

Most of the men would be employed to haul the blocks, I think. The quarry would get too crowded if it had too many stone masons.

You would need a chain of blocks from the quarry(s) to the pyramid, with a block passing up the ramp every two minutes or so. The number of people used depends on how long the supply chain is, and how many men it takes to drag a stone. If the quarry is a kilometer away, it might take 30,000 men to haul a block every two minutes along that road; if it is two kilometers away, it might take twice that number - as there will be twice as many blocks en route at any one time (but the pyramid still gets built at the same rate).

Strange problem, isn't it?

[eburacum45]

The Great Pyramid was built for Khufu, it seems; that pharoah ruled for twenty three years or so- apparently long enough to get the Pyramid built.

[korjik]

The practical knowledge in how to move large masses with nothing but muscle power has been lost, but that does not make the job impossible. I have no doubt that rebuilding the great pyramid by hand could be done, but I also know that the learning curve on how to do the job efficiently would be steep. I would bet that the techniques used at the end would be much different that the techniques used at the start.

[NEOWatcher]

...Strange problem, isn't it?

Of course, it's not that simple. For the first few courses, which are naturally a good percentage of the project, a whole lot of stones could be laid at the same time. Add to that, a 12 hr day maybe. And, possibly multiple ramps until you get to a certain height, and then maybe it wouldn't seem that far fetched.

Early on, you have most of the men dragging the rocks from the quarry, and they slowly transition more and more to lifting the rocks (up a ramp or whatever) since the quarry supply would need to slow down anyway.

[Caryn]

What is going to be the minimum daily calorific consumption of these workers? Assuming they are not worked to death and then replaced, what was their diet?

The Great Pyramid of Mexico http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Cholula
is 30% bigger than the Egyptian one.

The Aztecs merely claim it was built by a post-Flood giant!

[Doodler]

The Aztecs also claimed carving your heart out made the gods happy. If its all the same, I'll get a second opinion...

[sarongsong]

The Great Pyramid was built for Khufu, it seems...

Yes, but no evidence he was buried there:

...one must wonder if, perhaps in this one case, the King and his architects out smarted both the ancient thieves and modern archaeologists and that somewhere in, or below, the last wonder of the ancient world, rests Khufu and his sacred gold... Unmuseum

[danscope]

Hi, Of course, with the advantage of steel, and pre-cast beams. pulleys, wheels
and dacron rope, chain etc...etc... we have an enourmous advantage in the hand tools available to do the job. Imagine that you have a steel beam about 40 feet long, and a fulcrum, such that a block can be lifted and swung over to the next tier. If the block weighs ...say 2 1/2 tons, you make a slung platform such that 25 men walk on board the end platform, balance the stone, and then swing the stone up to tier. Yes, you have to bring the jig up each tier, but once you have mastered the method of lift, it goes quickly, with the advantage of
steel, cable, chain etc. I think modern man would not be "skidding" stone.
Hand car-Rail is more efficient, and worth the labor and material.
It can be done, no question. It requires the will to purpose.
The old ones were pretty smart though. You have to admit.
But...they weren't smart enough to do something else besides build pyramids.
Later, they realized that they could send a shaft into a mountain easier,....
so that's what they did.
Best regards, Dan

[novaderrik]

they built a lot of things besides pyramids. there are temples and statues all over the countryside that are pretty damn amazing.

[Caryn]

We have 5000 years of building experience.

The Egyptians didn't have any.

How did they get the the alignment, surveying, angles, tunnels, shafts, knife blade fit, work solid granite without iron tools, illumination etc so right, without any precedents to go by, let alone having none of our amenities and power tools?

They knew less than us.

But did they have superior IQs, foresight and 3D perception to us?

Or just like there are hardly any scientific or artistic geniuses today, in that era, genius and inspiration just flourished?

[PhantomWolf]

It would not be possible today for the following reasons

You forgot the OSHA regulations:

• Padding on the whips
• Whipping breaks every 20 mins to prevent whipping elbow
• non-slip mats on the ramps.
• lectures on proper pushing and stone lifting techniques.

......

[Peter B]

What is going to be the minimum daily calorific consumption of these workers? Assuming they are not worked to death and then replaced, what was their diet?

I can't answer the calories question directly, but I can tell you that the labourers who built the pyramids had a good diet, and good medical care.

Archaeologists have discovered the remains of the builders' town, adjacent to one of the pyramids. From there, they found that the workers were regularly fed beef and fish, common enough food for the nobility, but normally a rare treat for the peasants. Also, the archaeologists found the skeleton of a labourer who'd lost part of one of his legs, presumably in an accident. The point was, he didn't die from this - the bones had done whatever bones do when someone survives an amputation.

So clearly the workers were treated well. They certainly weren't worked to death.

They also weren't slaves. There would have been a portion of the workforce which was permanent full-time. But most of the labourers were farmers who were unemployed during the time of the Nile flood. I dare say a regular diet of meat and top health care would alone have been good incentives, apart from the religious value of what they were doing.

[Serenitude]

We have 5000 years of building experience.

The Egyptians didn't have any.

How did they get the the alignment, surveying, angles, tunnels, shafts, knife blade fit, work solid granite without iron tools, illumination etc so right, without any precedents to go by, let alone having none of our amenities and power tools?

They knew less than us.

But did they have superior IQs, foresight and 3D perception to us?

Or just like there are hardly any scientific or artistic geniuses today, in that era, genius and inspiration just flourished?

Believe it or not, 2 things - water, and string Water makes a superb leveler, and weighted string makes an unfoolable plumbob.

[Serenitude]

Ooops - forgot to mention the slave angle.

There is very little evidence, if any at all, anywhere, that slave labor was used. It has always been an assumption. Indeed, the hard evidence is showing us that pyramid building-caliber labour was skilled, and the workers were very well-treated and highly rewarded. Also, it seems most of the population worked on them voluntarily, out of a sense of religious duty, much as one might work a Church stand at a local fair.

[Peter B]

We have 5000 years of building experience.

The Egyptians didn't have any.

Be careful you don't think of the Egyptians as an amorphous blob. They were a culture over time and space, like us. And they were just as capable of learning from their mistakes as we are.

The pyramids weren't all built at the same time. Instead, they were built over a period of 150 years, and when you look at the chronology, you can see how the design of the pyramids changed over time. The pyramids aren't all perfect - some contain mistakes, but the Egyptians learned from these mistakes, meaning they didn't make the same mistake twice. Then, once they had a design which worked, they stuck to it as long as they built pyramids.

How did they get the the alignment, surveying, angles, tunnels, shafts, knife blade fit, work solid granite without iron tools, illumination etc so right, without any precedents to go by, let alone having none of our amenities and power tools?

Alignment: mark the points at which a star rises and sets. Half way between is True North.

Angles: Right angles are fairly easy to make.

Close fit: Only the casing stones of the pyramids fit together as tightly as knife blades. Those stones were made of limestone, which is fairly easy to shape. Their bronze tools would have been quite up to the task.

Illumination: Wouldn't have been an issue, as the tunnels would have been created as the structure was raised.

Look at it this way: the pyramids would have been a lot easier to build if the Egyptians used iron, pulleys, arches and cement. The Ancient Romans had all of these technologies. For those who think aliens built the pyramids (and Caryn, I'm not saying you're one), this suggests the aliens had less technology than the Ancient Romans.

They knew less than us.

But did they have superior IQs, foresight and 3D perception to us?

I don't see any need for any of those. Like us, they had the ability to learn from their mistakes and the ability to work towards a goal they were motivated to achieve.

Or just like there are hardly any scientific or artistic geniuses today, in that era, genius and inspiration just flourished?

Who says there aren't any scientific or artistic geniuses today?

Where's the inspiration in piling a large number of rocks to make a pyramid? Instead, looking at the chronology of pyramid construction, you can see how the design evolved from more modest structures to the Great Pyramids.

[eburacum45]

Very ancient, large structures were built all over Europe as well;
The Great Pyramid was built in 2560 BC, while the massive trilithons at Stonehenge date from 2450 BC; earlier than either was the alignments of stones at Carnac (3300 BC) and the great temple at Ġgantija in 3600 BC.

Something caused these societies to devote vast amounts of energy and time to these pursuits. Not only that, but they did it over and over again for thousands of years in different places. The only motive that I can think that is strong enough to lead to such achievements is faith.