Astronaut Love Triangle Gone Bad

[Neverfly]

What a terrible man is Oefelein IF he is like that!
"Helping"a married woman having an affair? and then after having a couple of Sexual encounters , found another woman and leave her to pursue another?

Lisa might have done committing adultery , but he has his contribution too. Im sure he knows that Lisa is married,thats why they kept it in secret.
Im kinda thinking that Oefelien has taken advantage of the vulnerability of Lisa and uses her for sexual satisfaction.

Possibly. But maybe you only say that because you are a woman.
Remember too that woman do that same thing as well.
and it was HER not HIM having the affair.

And from the news articles we can also tell that she is quite manipulative...

[Van Rijn]

Exactly right, legally speaking. The only legal standard for insanity is that you must know that society thinks what you're doing is wrong; she clearly did. And for the umpteenth time, she must shoulder responsibility for it. I just think the situation could have been avoided with a more sensible mental health policy.

Possibly, maybe, even if there were trusted people she could have gone to. I suspect NASA will now set up some kind of mandatory regular psych meetings and reviews, and given the realities of their situation, I have a hunch that the astronauts will consider the doctor as the enemy and say as little as possible. I just doubt there is an effective and doable response to an issue like this.

[Van Rijn]

And from the news articles we can also tell that she is quite manipulative...

Well, we're speculating, but being manipulative would be useful to reach her position. While I do feel some sympathy for her, I suspect part of this is because she was just too much of an astronaut. That is, in order to get where she did, she had to push ahead of many other very good people, which takes a lot of determination to stand out in front of everyone else. I don't think she could accept that she had lost in this competition and was determined to find a solution.

[Neverfly]

true- and there IS a lot of speculation...

I STILL don't pity her though...

[Whirlpool]

Well, we're speculating, but being manipulative would be useful to reach her position. While I do feel some sympathy for her, I suspect part of this is because she was just too much of an astronaut. That is, in order to get where she did, she had to push ahead of many other very good people, which takes a lot of determination to stand out in front of everyone else. I don't think she could accept that she had lost in this competition and was determined to find a solution.

Yeah.. I have read from the article that she and Oefelein are engaged in some competitions. Maybe , thats part of her personality thats why she cracked because she cant take being defeated.

[Doodler]

What a terrible man is Oefelein IF he is like that!
"Helping"a married woman having an affair? and then after having a couple of Sexual encounters , found another woman and leave her to pursue another?

Ya know, it could be that he saw this mindset developing in her and might have wanted a slightly more sane companion.

[R.A.F.]

...it was HER not HIM having the affair.

He must have been unaware that she was married.

Seriously though...you sound like you're making excuses for him...

I also seem to recall an incident of an (unmarried) female military pilot who was "involved" with a married male pilot...and the military considered her to be having an affair...

What's good for the goose...

[Neverfly]

He must have been unaware that she was married.

Seriously though...you sound like you're making excuses for him...

I also seem to recall an incident of an (unmarried) female military pilot who was "involved" with a married male pilot...and the military considered her to be having an affair...

What's good for the goose...

No not at all- i was stating the facts for those who where pitying and defending HER and acting like he was the bad guy.

They are both guilty of ... well.. Acting like idiots


Good point Doodler

[R.A.F.]

When this started, I "predicted" that the attempted murder charge would be dropped, and it was.

I now "predict" that Lisa Nowak "might" be convincted of assault and attempted kidnapping, but will not be sentenced to jail time. More likely she'll be sentenced to some form of mental counciling.

Other than waiting to see if my "prediction" comes true, I have nothing further to add to this thread...

[sarongsong]

...it was HER not HIM having the affair...

As I understand it, the 1st affair began in 2004 when both were married, he divorced in 2005, the 2nd began in late 2006, Nowak was told in January 2007, the same month she separated from her husband. Now that NASA has fired her and she's returned to the Navy, she and Oefelein may face courtsmartial; fraternization.

[Gillianren]

No not at all- i was stating the facts for those who where pitying and defending HER and acting like he was the bad guy.

Personally, I've said nothing of what blame he bears; that's something I know I don't have enough information to speculate on.

I understand what you're saying about "doctor as enemy," Van Rijn, and you do have a point. However, if NASA could accept a few flaws--yeah, how likely is that?--it would help a lot.

[Whirlpool]

I understand what you're saying about "doctor as enemy," Van Rijn, and you do have a point. However, if NASA could accept a few flaws--yeah, how likely is that?--it would help a lot.

Possible.. you have a point.

[HenrikOlsen]

I understand what you're saying about "doctor as enemy," Van Rijn, and you do have a point. However, if NASA could accept a few flaws--yeah, how likely is that?--it would help a lot.

The problem with a system like NASA's is that it doesn't select for the most mentally stable people, it selects for the people best able to fool the psychiatric evaluations.

[Neverfly]

The problem with a system like NASA's is that it doesn't select for the most mentally stable people, it selects for the people best able to fool the psychiatric evaluations.

Now if THAT is the case- I would whole-heartedly agree.
However, I will also point out that NASA holds a MUCH cleaner record than government or business alike.

So IF that is true- I agree that NASA would need better psych evals. However, NASA is in the business of putting people into space. They have a MISSION. It is NOT their business to pander to peoples feelings...

Im not saying that these things don't matter. Im saying that it isn't NASA's place. They have a goal of the best for the job gets the job. If you get grounded for psychological reasons- TOO BAD!

I'm sorry if that seems harsh but NASA isn't in the business to inflate egos or make astronauts feel good about themselves. They need to keep their crews safe and cannot accept ANY threat to their crews or missions-including a threat from a crewmember.

[mugaliens]

Ya know, it could be that he saw this mindset developing in her and might have wanted a slightly more sane companion.

Ok, let's dispell with some myths, here...

Yes, as far as his personal selection of companions go, he probably did select a slightly to significantly less obsessive companion.

Good for the "O".

On to the next topic...

[mugaliens]

No not at all- i was stating the facts for those who where pitying and defending HER and acting like he was the bad guy.

They are both guilty of ... well.. Acting like idiots

Good point Doodler

I'm not sure of "Ol...", as it appears he opted for a more sane individual than a less sane individual.

That seems perfectly normal to me.

What she did deviated from normality, to be sure. What she did, why she did it? It's up to the psych docs to make the determination.

[mugaliens]

As I understand it, the 1st affair began in 2004 when both were married, he divorced in 2005, the 2nd began in late 2006, Nowak was told in January 2007, the same month she separated from her husband. Now that NASA has fired her and she's returned to the Navy, she and Oefelein may face courtsmartial; fraternization.

There's no fraternization, by reg, between two field grade officers.

The only courtsmartial that could be faced would be in conjunction with felonious assult, that being, most likely, the highest charge the military could find her guily of.

HOWEVER, that's ONLY if the civilian authorities hand her over to the military authorities. Barring that, the civilian authorities could find her guilty of cimes up to and including attempted murder.

The really sad thing is that instead of crying her eyes out, as most women would do when jilted, she chose a course of action that stood a good chance of leading her into far deeper waters.

Regardless of how just or unjust our legal system might be, going after one's relational rival, in any manner or form, at best displays an obsessive/agressive disposition, and at worst will result in jail time.

If you're ever jilted, say to yourself, "Fine! I'll find a new life elsewhere." Then, walk away, take the one to three years the experts say it takes to heal, and re-engage with a healthy individual.

[mugaliens]

The problem with a system like NASA's is that it doesn't select for the most mentally stable people, it selects for the people best able to fool the psychiatric evaluations.

Actually, it selects for the people who're most mentally, emotionally, and physiologically capable of accomplishing the mission, and Lisa proved her mettle by doing exactly that.

Their mission has nothing to do with establishing stable extra-NASA relationships.

[Whirlpool]

If you're ever jilted, say to yourself, "Fine! I'll find a new life elsewhere." Then, walk away, take the one to three years the experts say it takes to heal, and re-engage with a healthy individual.

Or she can say .. Fine! I"ll find a new life elsewhere. You're not the only Man here in this planet.

[Neverfly]

Or she can say .. Fine! I"ll find a new life elsewhere. You're not the only Man here in this planet.

He wasn;t the only man on the Shuttle either

[Whirlpool]

He wasn;t the only man on the Shuttle either

She should have thought that way.
I saw her picture wearing the astronaut suit , she's pretty.

[mugaliens]

He must have been unaware that she was married.

Seriously though...you sound like you're making excuses for him...

I also seem to recall an incident of an (unmarried) female military pilot who was "involved" with a married male pilot...and the military considered her to be having an affair...

What's good for the goose...

Are you talking about one of the first female B-52 pilots to grace the papers due to her involvement with an enlisted B-52 maintenance personnel?

Regardless, having an affair isn't against the Uniform Code of Military Justice, but committing adultery, is. By definition, the only person who is capable of committing adultery is the married one.

The female B-52 pilot wasn't booted because she had an affair. She was booted because she lied about it.

[Musashi]

It looks like, from a brief reading of Article 134, that both people are guilty of adultery, even if only one is married.

(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;

(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and

She, Lt. Flynn, was charged with adultery.

[Musashi]

She also never faced a trial, but was instead allowed to resign.

[sarongsong]

There's no fraternization, by reg, between two field grade officers...

You mean officers are free to 'intermingle' with each other?

[Whirlpool]

Umm.. Maybe its a gray area.

Even in offices, for me there should be some rules against employees having illegal relationship. That is really bad.

I mean its already painful when the person you honestly cherish and love is having relationship with other women at the same time , much more painful when its already your husband.

I mean,its not wrong to fall in love , but if falling for it wherein you know its already wrong and will hurt another person , why do it?

[Doodler]

Umm.. Maybe its a gray area.

Even in offices, for me there should be some rules against employees having illegal relationship. That is really bad.

I mean its already painful when the person you honestly cherish and love is having relationship with other women at the same time , much more painful when its already your husband.

I mean,its not wrong to fall in love , but if falling for it wherein you know its already wrong and will hurt another person , why do it?

Because there's a hard line that needs to be drawn between where an employer has control over your life when you're not working for them. This line is already being DANGEROUSLY blurred by employers getting to pick and choose their employees based on their potential impact on their health plans. I am no one's serf. If an employer were to fire me for anything not related directly to the performance of my job, I'd be taken away in handcuffs while he headed to the hospital, directly impacting the cost of his healthcare benefits.

[Whirlpool]

Because there's a hard line that needs to be drawn between where an employer has control over your life when you're not working for them. This line is already being DANGEROUSLY blurred by employers getting to pick and choose their employees based on their potential impact on their health plans. I am no one's serf. If an employer were to fire me for anything not related directly to the performance of my job, I'd be taken away in handcuffs while he headed to the hospital, directly impacting the cost of his healthcare benefits.

Yeah.. unless that affair has taken over an employees job performance , they wont step in. I have that kind of situation here in my office , and, they just don't care. They will soon act IF the wife comes over with a knife and pepper spray , and attempt to kill the mistress! But if not .. poor wife or GF...or poor husband and BF....

[Doodler]

Yeah.. unless that affair has taken over an employees job performance , they wont step in. I have that kind of situation here in my office , and, they just don't care. They will soon act IF the wife comes over with a knife and pepper spray , and attempt to kill the mistress! But if not .. poor wife or GF...or poor husband and BF....

As a rule, I don't date at the office. Though some of the women I've seen working in the field of architecture have had me banging my head against the desk reconsidering that logic.

Added: Plus I happen to work for an architect who's wife works in the office handling real estate management, so here I've got this couple with four kids, the youngest just starting at Frostburg, who've made it work that kind throws that rule's foundation into question.

[Gillianren]

Actually, I met Graham at work. We've been together for four years on the 25th, though we only worked together for about six months of that.