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Thread: Superstrings Could Be Detectable As They Decay

  1. #1

    Post Superstrings Could Be Detectable As They Decay

    One of Einstein's predictions for relativity is the concept of gravity waves; these are emitted whenever massive objects move. The more massive the object the stronger the gravity wave. ...

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    Wink missing in action.............. sparticles

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
    One of Einstein's predictions for relativity is the concept of gravity waves; these are emitted whenever massive objects move. The more massive the object the stronger the gravity wave. ...

    Read the full blog entry
    Fraser. As superstrings are part of supersymmetry, and not one of the 17 particles or their 17 anti-particle partners....sparticles ...has ever been detected at a particle physics lab, or a cloud chamber, or a photographic cosmic ray emulsion, or a spark chamber, or a wire chamber, or a bubble chamber, I'll bet a hot fudge sundae to the first taker no superstring gravity wave will ever be detected, and that the theory will continue to founder for lack of either an experimental design or same such experimental confirmation. Ciao. Pete.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trinitree88 View Post
    I'll bet a hot fudge sundae to the first taker no superstring gravity wave will ever be detected, and that the theory will continue to founder for lack of either an experimental design or same such experimental confirmation. Ciao. Pete.
    The majority of the population of the 15th century would have made the same wager for the world being flat. 100 years later, the same bet would have been offered for the earth being central to the universe. 100 years ago, a similar wager would have been offered for gravity exceeding the speed of light. My point? Since the beginning of time, science and physics models have consistently preceded observation. I’d at least give CERN a few years to detect the particles before so quickly dismissing this elegant theory.

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by jamini View Post
    The majority of the population of the 15th century would have made the same wager for the world being flat. 100 years later, the same bet would have been offered for the earth being central to the universe. 100 years ago, a similar wager would have been offered for gravity exceeding the speed of light. My point? Since the beginning of time, science and physics models have consistently preceded observation. I’d at least give CERN a few years to detect the particles before so quickly dismissing this elegant theory.
    Jamini;906203. CERN may have all the time they want or need, but like a horse race, a difference of opinion occurs every day. I'm not dismissing the theory in it's entirety, but am reminding our fair readers that it's elegance remains conjectural, despite decades of review. As one who has followed the triumphs and failures of the worlds of particle physics and astrophysics since Dr. Baxter introduced it in "The Strange Case of the Cosmic Rays", Bell Telephone TV movie from the fifties.....there have been many unanticipated turns. I might lose a hot fudge sundae, but I'm not fence sitting. The Standard Model of Particle physics has upheld hundreds of thousands of interactions in detectors worldwide, minimally in the last few decades with only minor tweaking. I'm less inclined to abandon it. Pete.

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    trinitree88 – True, but the Standard Model as it stands today has many of its own shortcomings and fails altogether to address gravity. While all other unification theories are unable to account for the relatively minute force of gravity, string theory – and M-Theory in particular, require it. I’m not saying it’s the end all theory of everything but I wouldn’t go betting any fudge sundaes’ on its downfall just yet. Current particle accelerators lack sufficient energy to detect the heavier particles; CERN may be able to shed some new light on the subject and I for one am very much in anticipation of the results.

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    As string theorist Jim Gates points out. String theory is mathematics. It is not science yet. It is not conjecturing either.

    Mathematicians do not do things ad hoc. Physicists, at times, do make up math ad hoc to make it fit what goes on in a lab. Richard Feynman did just that when he created his Feynman diagrams to describe QED. It works so they use it. Mathematicians would cringe at doing things like that. They only resolve things, not in a lab, but with two column proofs complete with axioms, postulates and proven past theorums to look at some mathematical components and derive proofs.

    String theory is just that. It has never attempted to save any model and was only trying to mathematically describe what goes on in the nucleus. It was called the "dual resonance model". They were studying regge trajectories in particle accerator experiments and were in competition with another math called the "quark model". Inelastic scattering experiments proved that the math of quarks was more accurate. String math could not account for the existence of anything but bosons at the time and was put aside by physicists. But the mathematicians do not care about reality. They just like their math and keep expanding upon it.

    Once they did math for spinning strings they realized that strings not only could vibrate and split. They could spin and, further, when they could be shown to spin and vibrate, they would not produce waves..They would produce particles. Now baryons were in their picture. Heterotic strings were born.

    Back to the lab.

    Particle physicists were trying to see, since the uncertainty principle seemed to forbid it, if they could calculate conservation of energy in collisions. They were curious if there was some precise number of charges put into a collision that would give a precise Newtonian output. The math of string theory gave them a prediction that if you put in exactly 496 charges into a collilsion you will be able to account for any additional charges added that will result in a good head count for conservation.

    Guess what? That number is right on the head in experiments.

    Their math then predicted that Grassman numbers might describe some of the rules that exist in extra dimensions. Einstein felt that EM was something that came from another higher dimension. Grassman numbers are a math that is not commutative. For us A x B = B x A. Further we see A x A= A^2. For Grassman A x B= -B x A and A x A=0. A Russian electrical engineer proved that this math does describe EM under certain circumstances.

    Their math made predictions that a time delay should exist between bodies and that message carriers should exist. That mathematical journey popped out Einstein's metric tensor and wasn't even looking for it. However, their math also came up with the wrong sign for the metric and this allowed tachyons to exist. With tachyons in existence, probabilities could be greater than 100% and less than zero. They were put aside again by the physicists.

    Keep in mind that these mathematicians were not interested in any theory of the whole universe or "Theory of Everything". They were only interested in their proofs. The math of spinning strings advanced when it was realized that the math of opposite circulaly polarization would by added to produce a standing wave. This put the tachyon monster away.

    String theory math is the only math to verify Hawking radiation and can unite GR with the quantum world.

    Their math predicts the need for the heavier cousins of the electron..the muon and the tau particle.

    String theory is dependent upon supersymmetry being valid while supersymmetry is not dependent upon string theory. String theory math predicts that most higher mass superpartners have gone away and have transmuted themselves into the lightest supersymmetric particle called the LSP. It might not have the same force laws that ordinary matter has and could be a candidate for dark matter. String theory sees DM as the exhaust of breaking down extra dimensions into the 4 we are familiar with. String theory does not require the extra dimensions. It only allows for them to exist. Gates has produced a model that only requires 3 spatial dimensions and one of time. He feels that the signature for string theory will come from the spaces between the filaments in the CMB. He feels that proof of supersymmetry will be a strong indication that string theory might be valid.

    Take what I said above with some suspicion. I am still reviewing the video course that Gates produced and will review it more thoroughly.

    http://www.teach12.com/ttcx/coursede...%20Mathematics

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamini View Post
    The majority of the population of the 15th century would have made the same wager for the world being flat.
    Yes, but there was evidence to the contrary. People just ignored it, didn't want to believe it, or weren't allowed to believe it because of religious constraints.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RUF
    Yes, but there was evidence to the contrary. People just ignored it, didn't want to believe it, or weren't allowed to believe it because of religious constraints.
    This is actually a pretty common misconception. It was fairly common knowledge in the 15th century that the world was round. The old tale of Columbus defying church authorities, not getting funding because nobody believed in his vision? Nope. It was readily apparent from observation that the world was far larger than Columbus said it was, and he would never be able to sail that far. He just got lucky by hitting America on the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueshift
    Particle physicists were trying to see, since the uncertainty principle seemed to forbid it, if they could calculate conservation of energy in collisions. They were curious if there was some precise number of charges put into a collision that would give a precise Newtonian output. The math of string theory gave them a prediction that if you put in exactly 496 charges into a collilsion you will be able to account for any additional charges added that will result in a good head count for conservation.

    Guess what? That number is right on the head in experiments.
    I am afraid I don't understand the part I have put in bold. could you perhaps clarify or elaborate? Also, could you please provide a cite for that, as I was unaware of any predictions made by string theory which had been experimentally verified.

  9. #9

    String Theory or theory of every thing?

    Whether the string theory can live up to its claim of being theory of every thing and whether it will ever produce a feasible prediction as such remains still a debated question to us. String theory was born in probably in 1960s. Here strong interaction dominated the fundamental forces in the nature like 1) Gravity 2) Electromagnatism3) weak nuclear interaction. Experiments in High energy particles accelerators revealed a stunting proliferation of resonances particles- all particular energies amounting to over growing zoo of particles and in our opinion all these particles can not be the elementary particles. There remains many other flaws of string theory we think it so. a) The string theory for its mathematical consistency must have 25 special dimensions rather than 3 of which we humans are familiar. A rescue attempt replaced the string with new fermionic variety with infinitesimals particles spins attached to the tubular force brought down us 25 to 9 dimension at least
    Lastly despite all of our effort we still can not explain why there are no free single quark particles in the nature?
    Then came QCD theory in 1970- The quantum field theory of strong interaction hit final blow to understand physics in string theory- When strong interaction became weak at very short distances ?But for the strings coupling that occurs over largest distances known as Lattice QCD however can be fit string concept
    Professor Pranab Kumar Bhattacharya, Rupak Bhattacharya, Ritwik Bhattacharya; Upasana Bhattacharya, Aindrila mukherjee
    www.unipathos.com

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    How does one "tune" a Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave detector across different sections of the frequency bandwidth available to it? What prevented the inflation epoch from disintegrating the cosmic superstrings? Are they postulated to be such an integral part of spacetime that inflation could not "extract" them from spacetime? Perhaps they gradually dissipate by leaking quarks to supply addditional mass as the universe expands. Aha! Charge parity is preserved after all; the missing anti-matter was stuffed into the cosmic superstrings. A pleasant fairy tale.

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    I think the article confuses Cosmic Strings with Superstrings. Look at the definition they give:
    cosmic superstrings. Theoretically speaking, these would be narrow tubes of energy left over from the beginning of the Universe. The first moments of inflation after the Big Bang would have stretched them out to enormous lengths through the Universe's expansion.
    Confused? One's undetectably small and the other's undetectably large.
    STARGAZING: All I see are the lights of a billion places I'll never go. --Howard Tayler, Schlock Mercenary

  12. #12

    String &Superstring

    String theory is dependent upon super symmetry being valid while super symmetry is not dependent upon string theory.”…..The problem is that relativity and the quantum theory are precise opposites. General relativity is a theory of the very large: galaxies, quasars, black holes, and even the Big Bang. It is based on bending the beautiful four-dimensional fabric of space and time. The quantum theory, by contrast, is a theory of the very small, i.e. the world of sub-atomic particles. It is based on discrete, tiny packets of energy called quanta.. The key to the puzzle may be hyperspace. In principle, if we add more and more dimensions, we can ripple and bend them in different ways, thereby creating more forces. In 10 dimensions, in fact, we can accommodate all four fundamental forces. Actually, it’s not that simple. By naively going to 10 dimensions, we also introduce a host of esoteric mathematical inconsistencies (e.g., infinities and anomalies) that have killed all previous theories. The only theory which has survived every challenge posed to it is called superstring theory, in which this 10-dimensional universe is inhabited by tiny strings. In fact, in one swoop, this 10-dimensional string theory gives us a simple, compelling unification of all forces. Like a violin string, these tiny strings can vibrate and create resonances or “notes.” That explains why there are so many sub-atomic particles: they are just notes on a superstring. Similarly, when the string moves in space and time, it warps the space around it, just as Einstein predicted. Thus, in a remarkably simple picture, we can unify gravity (as the bending of space caused by moving strings) with the other quantum forces” [ Reference-; t “Stiphen W, Hawking’s Universe” by Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Theoretical Physics at the City University of New York,] A new approach that revived the link to string theory was first suggested by Maidalena JM in journal Adv. Theor. Math.physc.2:231-52; 1998,who first established a link between a close relative of QCD and a superstring in a 10 dimensional curved space time. Although the theory was in big question, a super symmetry N=4 gauge theory came and it was sufficiently different from QCD. The Maidalena’s theory raised a lot of interest but seemed for long time to be quantitatively unverifiable. This was because it takes the form of a duality in which the strongly coupled String theory corresponded to weakly coupled QCD like theory and vice versa. The spectrum of the N=4 theory was then formed [ Minahan JA & Zarembo K- High energy physics 0303:013:2003] to be equivalently described by quantum mechanical charm of a type discovered by Hanse Bellie in 1931
    Professor Pranab Kumar Bhattacharya, Rupak Bhattacharya, Ritwik Bhattacharya; Upasana Bhattacharya, Aindrila mukherjee
    www.unipathos.com

  13. #13

    String theory can not solveHow did universe and with its space time, matter came in

    Symmetry and beauty are often found interlinked in this universe. This is not only in art and music but also in mathematics, and in higher level physics. One of the mysterious symmetry is E8 invariant. A sphere for instance are usually associated with operations that leave a geometrical object& of such operations they forms a mathematical group. The mathematical description of continuous symmetries( as opposed to discrete symmetries, such as those that leave a crystal lattice invariant) was described first by the Norwegian mathematician “Sopus Lie” called as “Lie groups’. Finite dimensional Lie groups were described more than a century ago, by dint of considering only group elements infinitetestimally close to identity that is to “rotations” by arbitrarily small angels supply . They identified four infinite series of such labeled An, Bn, Cn& Dn for n=1.2,3,4… which essentially corresponded to linear transformation in spaces of arbitrary dimensions,& that leave certain quadratic expression invariants. There are also five exceptional groups that does not fit into these categories designed G2F4, E6,E7 & E8. Visualizing the rotation of the sphere in 3D space is straight forward in human eye. But Visualization of exceptional symmetries and there action as geometrical objects is much harder. The results of such attempts are collectively referred as Botany of these Lie group E8 always stand out as largest and most difficult of” Exceptional Lie group”. It has 248 dimensions and the Smallest non trivial realization require a space of 57 dimensions at least. In short E8 is as intricate as symmetry can get.
    Symmetry concept played a central role in the establishment of two most successful theories of higher physics. General theory of Relativity and in Quantum field theory in particle physics’ standard model of universe. In General relativity theory symmetry enters through the principal of general co-variance: That the laws of physics should not depend on the co-oridinate system in which they are formulated. This principal enabled Einstein to formulate the equation of gravitational field governing the evolution of this universe. The standard model of symmetry is embodied by the principal of Gauge invariance of Professor A. Salam which determines the way in which elementary particles can interact. Given the principal and the apparatus of modern quantum field theory, all that was needed “to properly formulate the standard model” is the specification of symmetry group, the matter-particle content, and the transformation properties of these matter field(quarkand lepton) under chosen symmetry group. Gauze invariance automatically ensures the mathematical consistency ( re normalizability) of the theory allowing us to extract definite predictions from seemingly infinite expressions and thus making the standard model one of the best theory for ever.
    Yet, in spite of their success neither the general theory of relativity nor the standard model can be final theory of the universe. This is because of a basic incompatibility between the two theories which reflected in the appearance of “ non renormalizable” infinites, when Einstein’s theory was quantified following the standard rules of quantum mechanics. Equally important is “neither they are able to answer some obvious questions. For instances” which sets the pattern of elementary particles found in nature apart from other possible such patterns”?. Similarly what is so special about the standard models symmetry group denoted SU(3)XSU(2)XU(1). It is connected to those questions “ How did universe and with its space time, matter came into being at moment of Big bang?
    To solve these questions came “Unified theory Called the “M theory” or “superstring theory”, yet to be totally constructed. One important difference between Eienstien’s theory of gravity and standard model ,concern in way in which symmetries are realized. In general theory of relativity symmetries act in physical space time where as in gauze thransformation of particle physics act in abstract internal space. An important step in the String theory are the long road to a unified theory is development of supper symmetry,-a new kind of symmetry relating to the particle group Known as Bosons and Ferminos. Supper symmetry leads to super gravity- an extension of Einstein’s theory and it requires 11 space time dimension at least
    Extract from Herman Nicolai,s “ A beauty and a beast” Published in Nature Vol 447: 3rd may P41-42:2007
    Professor Pranab Kumar Bhattacharya
    www.unipathos.com

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