Baseball Hall of Fame

[ToSeek]

Ripken, Gwynn elected to Hall of Fame

Mark McGwire fell far short in his first try for the Hall of Fame, picked by 23.5 percent of voters while Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr. easily gained baseball's highest honor.

Tarnished by accusations of steroid use, McGwire appeared on 128 of a record 545 ballots in voting released Tuesday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.

Ripken was picked by 537 voters and appeared on 98.53 percent of ballots to finish with the third-highest percentage behind Tom Seaver (98.84) and Nolan Ryan (98.79).

The former
Baltimore Orioles shortstop said he was both relieved and euphoric. If he had been picked by two of the eight voters who didn't select him, he would have set the percentage record — but he didn't mind.

"All I wanted to hear was, `You're in,'" Ripken said during a conference call. "I really didn't get caught up with wanting to be unanimous or wanting to be the most."

Gwynn received 532 votes for 97.61 percent, the seventh-highest ever, also trailing Ty Cobb, George Brett and Hank Aaron.

Eight sportswriters thought Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame??

Anyhow, congratulations to both. I still remember the evening Cal broke the consecutive games record - one of my coworkers at the time was in the ballpark.

[Swift]

Eight sportswriters thought Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame??

Oh sure, he was a great third baseman and shortstop, but he never really showed much of a work ethic.

[SeanF]

Eight sportswriters thought Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame??

I read an article over the weekend about whether or not Ripken would be the first unanimous choice (gotta keep in mind - a handful of sportswriters didn't vote for Babe Ruth).

Anyway, the article quoted a former member of the Writers Association about the possibility of a unanimous vote. I don't remember the exact words he used, but the gist of what he said was, "It never has happened, and until it does happen, I don't think it's going to happen."

Thanks a lot, pal.

[Doodler]

Ripken, Gwynn elected to Hall of Fame



Eight sportswriters thought Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame??

Anyhow, congratulations to both. I still remember the evening Cal broke the consecutive games record - one of my coworkers at the time was in the ballpark.

Heh, I'm more surprised 128 thought McGuire SHOULD.

[farmerjumperdon]

Must be a quirk of the voting process and be related to the number of votes they can cast and how many are on (and how they get on) the ballot.

If it was as straightforward as:

Vote for the players you think should be in, in order of their belonging,

It would be hard to imagine someone not voting for people like Ruth and Ripken.

I wonder if Ron Santo is still eligible?

[ToSeek]

There was a mention elsewhere of one writer submitting a blank ballot in protest of MLB not addressing the steroids issue to his satisfaction.

[antoniseb]

I thought Jim Rice & Andre Dawson had a good chance this year. Oh well.

[Jim]

Eight sportswriters thought Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame??

Yankees fans.

(gotta keep in mind - a handful of sportswriters didn't vote for Babe Ruth).

Red Sox fans.

[Lord Jubjub]

NPR had an interview today with the writer that sent in the blank ballot. He really came across as a bit of a whiner. Somehow he had convinced himself that because he couldn't prove that Ripken didn't use steroids, he had to assume that he did use steroids.

[hhEb09'1]

I wonder if Ron Santo is still eligible?

In the Veteran's Committee, everybody is eligible.

From this:

Gwynn, who compiled 3,141 hits and a .338 batting average during his 20-year career with the San Diego Padres, said he was fidgety and nervous before he received the call from Jack O'Connell, the BBWAA secretary-treasurer.

[pumpkinpie]

NPR had an interview today with the writer that sent in the blank ballot. He really came across as a bit of a whiner. Somehow he had convinced himself that because he couldn't prove that Ripken didn't use steroids, he had to assume that he did use steroids.

Also, that every baseball player was at least *aware* of steroid use, so even if they themselves were clean, because they didn't tattle on fellow players the are not hall worthy.

[Maksutov]

How about two halls, one for those who did what they did honestly, and one for those who cheated.

[Doodler]

How about two halls, one for those who did what they did honestly, and one for those who cheated.

Because the hall for honest players would be empty.

[Serenitude]

I must say I'm still stunned by the very unscientific denial of Mac into the Hall.

Simply put, there is absolutely no evidence, whatsoever, that Mac took steroids. There is simply his denial to go McCarthy and name names in a Congressional hearing. Mac is demonstrably very concerned with children's affairs, and went to the hearing specifically to address these, not to participate in a witch-hunt.

Mac hit 49 homers in his rookie year. He has, when not injured, been a consistent homer hitting beast his entire career. He didn't just "get lucky" one year on juice and post big numbers. He was also large and muscled his entire career. His build, although refined over time, certainly did not just pop up one off-season.

He also never denied being a fitness freak and using legal edges in his build, as all pro-sportsmen do. During the andro-controversy, he made no qualms about his use of it. He not only didn't attempt to hide it, he answered unequivicably "yes" whenever asked. It was often visible in his locker during interveiws. He would show it to reporters when asked. He has a history of honesty regarding performance enhancement. He also stopped taking it when it became an illegal substance.

The man single-handedly saved Baseball. Love him or hate him, you can't deny that. He single-handedly brought the game back from the edge of lethal fan apathy, specifically strike induced "meh".

As a reward, for nothing other than sports-radio fuled pure speculation, one of the most important and classiest players in the game is being denied to the Hall of Fame. Baseball is dead to me.

Does no one on a scientific forum sympathize that he may be in the impossible situation of having to prove that something that never happened never happened? I darn near made a Conspiracy Theory forum thread based on that alone. He can admit to being a scumbag he never was to satisfy the baseless speculation of those who've already pronounced judgement without being in possession of any facts, or he can continue to be in the impossible-to-win situation of having the burden of proof upon him to demonstrate that something that never happened never happened.

Is this logical or fair? Or is it just me?

[Doodler]

Is this logical or fair? Or is it just me?

Not just you. But then, life is neither logical nor fair. Personally, I could care less what they pump themselves up with. If anything, its about the only option left for these meatheads to actually earn the ridiculous sums of money they make. The sporting public has a bizarrely hypocritical attitude towards what constitutes fair and unfair. It would seem to boil down to "thou shalt not get caught", which to me, invalidates any arguements about the "purity" of play.

Baseball's at least honest enough not to ban the stuff. I almost wish they'd show Congress a little backbone and tell'em to stuff their high horse up their backside and keep right on creamin' and clearin'.

[SeanF]

I must say I'm still stunned by the very unscientific denial of Mac into the Hall.

Election into the Hall of Fame has never been scientific. It's a matter of subjective opinion, and always has been.

Baseball's at least honest enough not to ban the stuff.

Little behind the curve, Doodler. MLB banned steroids in 2002.

[hhEb09'1]

Does no one on a scientific forum sympathize that he may be in the impossible situation of having to prove that something that never happened never happened? I darn near made a Conspiracy Theory forum thread based on that alone. He can admit to being a scumbag he never was to satisfy the baseless speculation of those who've already pronounced judgement without being in possession of any facts, or he can continue to be in the impossible-to-win situation of having the burden of proof upon him to demonstrate that something that never happened never happened.

Is this logical or fair? Or is it just me?

I'm a fan of Mc, but I think the logic is not that he hasn't proven that he didn't do it, but that he had an opportunity to deny it, and he didn't. Everybody keeps bringing that up, anyways.

[WHarris]

Little behind the curve, Doodler. MLB banned steroids in 2002.

Which was a year after MacGwire retired, IIRC. If there was no rule against using them, then it shouldn't be used as a reason to keep him out of the Hall of Fame.

[hhEb09'1]

I almost wish they'd show Congress a little backbone and tell'em to stuff their high horse up their backside and keep right on creamin' and clearin'.

Baseball doesn't really want to face the free market, and Congress has helped them with that little problem, so they're kinda Congress's comare

[farmerjumperdon]

I'd agree with most of what has been said, except the part about him being baseball's savior. Baseball would still be around without his contributions; or as Charles de Gaul once said:

"Graveyards are full of indispensable people."

[Doodler]

Little behind the curve, Doodler. MLB banned steroids in 2002.

My mistake (or is that error, since this is a baseball thread? ).

[Trebuchet]

Ripken, Gwynn elected to Hall of Fame



Eight sportswriters thought Ripken shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame??

Anyhow, congratulations to both. I still remember the evening Cal broke the consecutive games record - one of my coworkers at the time was in the ballpark.

Probably eight who preferred to vote for someone who was on their last try, rather than a sure thing.

[pumpkinpie]

[snip]Baseball is dead to me.

Oh, Serenitude, don't let this turn you away from baseball! Remember, these votes came from baseball *writers.* Just don't read any of them, but keep enjoying the sport!

[Serenitude]

Nah. I'm bitter over something else baseball related this year. I'm sure I'll calm down by next season.

See, I paid last year an exhorbitant sum of money for the Baseball package so I could be sure to see all of the Indians games. AFTER we signed up and paid, we find out the Indians were going to be blacked-out from the Baseball package due to signing and independant deal.

There was no mention of this on the DirectTV website or in the literature. So, we paid for the Baseball package to watch exclusively to watch Indians games, and saw not a single one all season. MLB and DirectTV also refused to give us even a partial refund. Several hundred dollars that would have been better spent as kindling for weenie-roasts.

Grrr. Baseball

[Donnie B.]

I can understand your bitterness there, Serenitude. It certainly sounds like grounds for a class action suit, but with the relatively small dollars involved it probably wouldn't attract any advocates.

I have heard one or two sports pundits who say Macguire (sp?) shouldn't get voted in because he doesn't deserve it based on his numbers, rather than the steroid issue. They point out that aside from his home runs, he was a pretty average player. They also mention that Roger Maris (whose career was similar, and who held the HR record for decades) is not yet in the HOF.

Correct me if I'm wrong here -- and I recognize that Mac has not been proven to have used them -- but wasn't steroid use against the law at that time? Never mind the rules of MLB, steroid use outside its medical applications was a criminal act, and one which (if the accusations are true) was done only to enhance performance rather than recreationally or as self-medication. Wouldn't that be serious enough to deny the HOF?

[Swift]

I'm sorry you got ripped off on your money Serenitude, but if there was an Indian's season not to see, last year would have been a good choice .

Just think, only a little over a month till pitchers and catchers report.

[Serenitude]

I'm sorry you got ripped off on your money Serenitude, but if there was an Indian's season not to see, last year would have been a good choice .

Just think, only a little over a month till pitchers and catchers report.

Yes, and now I have Cable, where the Indians games are broadcast for free...

[hhEb09'1]

Yes, and now I have Cable, where the Indians games are broadcast for free...

Maybe you can sue them, this year.

[farmerjumperdon]

My mistake (or is that error, since this is a baseball thread? ).

E 4.

[farmerjumperdon]

Mark McGwire 9.42 (9.4230)
Babe Ruth 8.50 (8.5010)
Barry Bonds 7.72 (7.7206)
Jim Thome 7.36 (7.3646)
Manny Ramirez 7.15 (7.1483)
Ralph Kiner 7.09 (7.0893)
Harmon Killebrew 7.03 (7.0333)
Sammy Sosa 7.00 (6.9992)
Alex Rodriguez 6.86 (6.8568)
Ken Griffey, Jr. 6.78 (6.7848)
Ted Williams 6.76 (6.7610)
Carlos Delgado 6.72 (6.7239)
Juan Gonzalez 6.62 (6.6199)
Dave Kingman 6.62 (6.6197)
Mickey Mantle 6.62 (6.6157)
Jimmie Foxx 6.57 (6.5650)

Just posting this for the stats nuts. These are the top 20 in HRs as a percentage of at-bats.

Not that outrageous performance equals guilt, but the only other category I've found with this kind of dominance is Ricky Henderson with stolen bases.

He was certainly a prolific performer in this one very big category, but not much else. That kind of narrowness in contribution does seem to be worth consideration. As someone else said, Maris isn't there, though he is not on this list either.