Nancy's SOLID dates from interview last night

[SarahMc]

Nancy's just one person out of a long lineage of doomsday prophets.

http://www.chrisnelson.net/end6.htm

[Eta C]

I think NL picked the date by looking at a copy of the one-cartoon-a-day calendar I have on my desk at work. The cartoon for the 20th has the typical bearded begger holding a sign that says "The World is Coming to an End!" and at the bottom in smaller print "www.worldsend.com" Think anyone has that domain name yet?

[ocasey3]

I think NL picked the date by looking at a copy of the one-cartoon-a-day calendar I have on my desk at work. The cartoon for the 20th has the typical bearded begger holding a sign that says "The World is Coming to an End!" and at the bottom in smaller print "www.worldsend.com" Think anyone has that domain name yet?

It appears to be a music production site.

[Jigsaw]

Josun, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was yelling at you--you do seem like a nice guy. But you have to understand how aggravating it is to hear you say this to Purple Kitten:

I know you are in the UK, and I know you have children and a boyfriend by your posts....So if what she says is in fact truth ...I believe the UK will fare well, so take your children and loved ones and go to a safe place

PurpleKitten is one of the people who came in and registered here at the BABB because she was genuinely frightened by the whole Planet X thing, and she came here seeking reassurance. Since she's been here I think we've been able to calm a lot of her fear and to help her realize that none of this is going to happen. However, it doesn't help to have you say, "Nancy is probably wrong, but if she's right, then I hope you and your family are in a safe place." That's just totally opposite to what the rest of us are trying to accomplish.

It doesn't matter that you spent half your post also saying, "Well, Nancy's probably wrong". First, for the rest of us, there is no "probably" on this issue--she is "definitely" wrong. Second, people like PurpleKitten, being already upset, aren't going to focus on any of your "Well, Nancy's probably wrong" qualifiers--they're only going to hear the negative part about "I hope you're in a safe place next week".

So, I don't have any personal issues with you, okay? I understand that you aren't entirely convinced the government isn't lying to you as Nancy says. Many people believe the government is lying to them, and actually, it probably is, occasionally.

But, geez, dude, this is something that even Big Brother couldn't cover up--a planet four times the size of Earth zooming in from beyond Mars? No way would every astronomer on Earth miss that.

I want you to look at this list of amateur astronomical observatories. Brace yourself--incoming!

http://www.seds.org/billa/obs/obslist.html

Paul Andrew
Apogee Robotic Observatory
Ashen Path Observatory
Bear Observatory
Blaber Observatory
Bob's Backyard Observatory
Jean-Pierre Bousquet
Tycho Brahe Observatory
Bush Observatory
Camp David Observatory
Carr Astronomical Observatory
Cave Creek Observatory
Chico Community Observatory
Cloudbait Observatory
Rod Cook
CopperHead Ridge Observatory
Darklight Observatory
Deer Meadow Observatory
Don Dillinger's Garden Shed Obsevatory
DiRocco Observatory
The Dobservatory
Mike Dodd
Rick Drozd
Dave Elting
Etscorn Campus Observatory
EverStaR Astronomical Observatory
David Fansler
Darin Fields
Fleenor Observatory
Marcel Fontaine
Fox Park Public Observatory
Frog Pond Observatory
Garden Spot Observatory
Gerbil Bank Observatory
Grasslands Observatory
Doc Greiner
Mike Gore
Berthold Hamburger
Erik Hansen
Juan Herrero
Hidden Loft Observatory
High Knoll Observatory
Hill Observatory
Hocking Hills Observatory
Hornback-Stuart Observatory
Jefferson Valley Observatory
Bruce Johnston
Junk Bond Observatory aka 701 Sierra Vista
KAC Observatory
W.M. Keck Observatory !!
Al Kelly
Kenyon Astrophysical Observatory
Kiesel Park Observatory
The Kiowa Observatory
Doug Kranz
Lance Hill Observatory
Laurent CORP
Steve Lee
Linnhe Observatory
Jim Loudon Observatory
MAC-Hunter Observing Site
Dale Mais
Maple Ridge Observatory
Bob McGovern
The Meadow Observatory
Mervyn Millward
David Morris
Mount View Observatory
Nee-Bee Observatory
Nova Quest Observatory
Onan Observatory
Gary Opitz
Orion Observatory
Osmundsto Observatorium
Owl Observatory
Devon Oxford
Paddy's Green Observatory
Palominas Star Haven Observatory
Jim Pennington
Valère Perroud
Chris Picking
Piesport Observatory
PlettStone
Plus Ultra
Pop The Top Observatory
Port Elizabeth Peoples Observatory
Prairie Grass Observatory
Ptolemy's Cafe
Rancho DeLUX
rfreeze
James Roe
Saaletal-Observatorium
Eric Sanchez
Shrine of Saint Elwood Observatory
Skafars Universe
Skyjunkie's Observatory
Sonoita Hills Observatory
Donn Starkey
Starstuff Observatory
STI Observatory
Stone Haven Observatory
Robert Suding's Rolling Roof Observatory
Tidewter Farm Observatory
Tim's StarDust Observatory
Eddie Trimarchi
The Thunderchild Observatory
Todi Astronomical Observatory
TwinOaks Observatory
An Unconventional Observatory
Vanguard Amateur Observatory
Vedeler Observatory
Vitovlje Observatory
Voula Amateur Astronomical Observatory
John Watzke
Weasel Creek Observatory
Woden World Observatory
Woodville Observatory
Denny Woolaghan
Astropad
Central Montana Astronomy Society
Codorus Creek Observatory
Conlin Hill Observatory
Eric Cote
Ed Couture
Hyde Memorial Observatory
Bobby Middleton
Frank Schwartz
Sweet Hill Observatory
Bill Arnett's temporary hack
Michael J. Cook
Chris Heapy
Andy Heath
Bert Katzung
Jeff King
Le Sueur Manf. Co., Astro Pier
Ag Nuca (wedgeless!)
Gordon Lupier
Guido Pasi
Ralph Pass
Pier_Tech, fancy piers
Robinson Astronomical Observatory
Semi Permanent Telescope Pier
Partick Sogorb, nice portable pier
Wayne Watson
Acorn Hollow Observatory
Arcturus Observatory
ASH Naylor Observatory
The Astronomy Center
Athanasios Georgiou
Osservatorio Astronomico Bassano
Observatorio Astronomico Los Estancos
Observatorio Astronomico Melaga
Steve B.
Biggs Observatory
Bil Hill Observatory
Biosphere 2 Center Observatory
Birch Grove Observatory
Dave Bloomsness
Boothe Memorial Astronomical Society
Brayebrook Observatory
Aben Brown's Minidome
Camanche North Observatory
Chumack Observatory
Doug Clapp
Clearview Farm Observatory
Croation Amateur Astronomy
Ken Dauzat Optical Observatory
José Carlos Diniz
Deep Sky Observatory
Eagle Observatory
Don Franck
Frog Rock Observatory
Observatoire Gap-47
Joe Garlitz
Gilday Observatory
Heaven's Glory Observatory
Goldendale Observatory
Michel Graveline
Halfmoon Stream Observatory
Highland Road Park Observatory
Horning Observatory
Hundred Foot Observatory
JAT Observatory
Jornada Observatory
Robin Kemp
Stephen LaFlamme
Las Brisas Observatory
Littlebear Observatory
Madison Astronomical Society
Majden Observatory
James Clerk Maxwell Observatory
Juan Menendez
Observatorio Astronomico Municipal de Mercedes
Joaquin Tapioles Merino
Pete Mills
Observatoire Mirabilis
Morgan County Observatory
Mountain Skies Observatory
The Mueller Observatory
NF/ Observatory
Northern Cross Observatory
Northwood Ridge Observatory
Nyrola Observatory
Oak Creek Observatory
Kunihiko Okano
Pebble Beach Obseratory
Peterberg Observatory
Petroglyph Observatory
Pickney Ridge Observatory
Poor Meadow Dyke Observatory
Powell Observatory
David Ratledge
Pinhead Observatory
Ritchie Observatory
Paul Robinson Observatory, NJAA
RD-1 Remote Observatory
Robosky
Observatorio Rofh
Rosse Observatory
Warren Rupp Observatory
Jan Sandberg
Cal Sandfort
Seething Observatory
Sewickley Academy Observatory
Silvercreek Observatory
Simon's Dome
SkyScape Observatory
Skyshooter's Mobile Dome
Sky Tour Observatory
Southern Cross Observatory
Springbrook Observatory
Starbase Two
Star Catcher Observatory
Star Cruiser Observatory
Starhouse Observatory
Steve Stefanik
The Stirland Observatory
Stony Ridge Observatory
Robert Suding's Domed Observatory
Tarp Domed Observatory
Tar River Astronomy Club
Three Rivers Observatory
Thrush Observatory
TOC Observatory
Trailtop Observatory
Domi Verrascina
James C. Veen Observatory, two domes
Math Vos
Walker Observatory at DeMiguel School in Flagstaff, AZ
Willow Creek Observatory
Worchester Park Observatory
Deep Sky Eye Observatory
Elsberry Observatory
Kotipu Place Observatory
Milky Way Observatory
Tom Perry
Robert Reeves
La Scala Observatory
Arrakis Observatory
ARGO Cooperative Observatory
Astrogaze
Big Woodchuck Weekend Solar Observatory
Blackberry Observatory
Randy Brewer's deck
Burton View Observtory
Club Observatory Columba
Shannon Davenport's Collapsible Hoop Dome
Deck House Observatory
Bob Van Deusen's Flip Roof
Michael Dziak
Greenbox Observatory
Jeff Dillon
Lon Dittrick's Flip Top
DogPatch Observatory and DogPatch II Observatory and
Mark Kaye
Bert Katzung
Folding Portable Observatory
Graham Mobile Observatory
Lehigh Valley Amateur Astronomical Society
Lookum Observatory
Maize Sunfire Observatory
Moby Dick
Arie Nagel
Michael Nepp
Oil Region Astronomical Observatory
John Polhamus's tent
The Outhouse
Michel Pezet
Rockland Observatory aka Tarphenge
Ryder Homestead Observatory
Eric Schandall
Frank J. Shepley
Solar Observatory
Don Stefanik
Sunflower Observatory
Tenagra Observatories
Jim Vail's Flip Top
WHORF
Dan Wolk

Nancy is asking me to believe that all those astronomers peering through their telescopes somehow missed a planet four times the size of Earth, out by Mars?

Right. :roll:



And now I am going to tell everyone the story of the Millerites.

In the 1830s, a Baptist farmer and amateur Bible scholar named Miller who lived in upstate New York added up all the dates in the Bible and calculated that the date that Christ would return would be sometime between March 1843 and March 1844. This date was later recalculated to be October 22, 1844. Thousands of people joined his sect and sold their farms and quit their jobs and went up on various hillsides on October 22 to await the Second Coming. Needless to say, Jesus didn't show. Those Millerites who didn't drop out of the sect in disgust later regrouped and founded the Seventh Day Adventists.

And the moral of this story is...?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?



http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/m10.html
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerites

[JackTripper]

Ha! Enough w/the Millerites...there's a wonderful book called "Apocalypse Delayed" which is the history of the Jehovah Witnesses and their many, many dates for the End Times.

I'd like to note that I don't mean to offend anyone with religious beliefs - certainly believe whatever you want - just that people have been SO SURE of their interpretations of the Bible and in particular the Book of Revelations when in fact such opinions have always been wrong, leading me to suspect there is no 'right way' to figure it out (if there even is a 'solution' to figure out, but exegesis is beyond the scope of this board).

Regarding conspiracy theories in general.....nah, here's a government which can't organize a HEALTH CARE plan; where presidents can't even sneak in a little adultery...and you think they can get it together to squash truths? I believe in little little conspiracies, sure, and there's things going on without my knowledge politically, that's obvious - but something like a huge planet barrelling down the solar system? Uh-huh...

I used to have a friend who insisted NASA was covering up little green men....I always figured NASA would LOVE proof of intelligent life "out there". Could you imagine the funding they'd get? No more "cheaper, faster, more effecient"..they could bloat with the best of the agencies....

[josun]

jigsaw wrote:
So, I don't have any personal issues with you, okay? I understand that you aren't entirely convinced the government isn't lying to you as Nancy says. Many people believe the government is lying to them, and actually, it probably is, occasionally

Carolyn wrote:

What about this, you 2 trust all those nice astonomers, meterorologists, geologists an other assorted sci types on this site to not lie to you, to be totaly sincere, when they say they have looked into it an its buncome, balony, hooey, balderdash etc (have I forgotten anything ?)

Thank you both for making me see ,that I get a little a little harsh where more reasoning should be used, I honestly enjoy purplekittens posts, However my writing will at times betray, my heart condition for my fellow people of the Earth,

This is truly a wonderful site, and sometimes I would like to say to people that get caught up with PX ,is to get strong and do not let that Womans predictions ruin your life, However most of you on this site do that.

Because of Time on my hands to browse the internet of late, I also had fallen into that trap, and yes was starting to doubt the Government due to the many strongly in disfavor of it by the many websites that post all sorts of Conspiring claims that the Governments of the World are involved in. So it was just a matter of time that" this fish" was going to get hooked into one of them.....Oddly enough I never did before this!
So ,when I reply to someone in more of an unsure or abrubt manner ,It is actually me telling myself to do this, when I am telling others, Kind of saying let us fight this crazy thing together.
My problem with the Internet is , I am accustomed to looking at a persons eyes and studying thier body language as to statements made...obviously I cannot with the internet.....So for me to truly question a person(Nancy) that speaks of a calamity of this sort , I need to speak face to face ,and not by e-mail or a website, because as you know words can be misleading or if you touch a nerve you can get thrown out of a session.

And by the way! I did enjoy both your rebuttals of my statement...It shows honesty in the way that they were presented, Showing me that quite possibly I can start to fully believe the words that are posted by those concerned on this site.

Well that ends that chapter, so I wish a good day to the many that post here..............The evil Mr. josun (Just Kidding for Gawds sake)

[purplekitten]

PurpleKitten is one of the people who came in and registered here at the BABB because she was genuinely frightened by the whole Planet X thing, and she came here seeking reassurance. Since she's been here I think we've been able to calm a lot of her fear and to help her realize that none of this is going to happen. However, it doesn't help to have you say, "Nancy is probably wrong, but if she's right, then I hope you and your family are in a safe place." That's just totally opposite to what the rest of us are trying to accomplish.

It doesn't matter that you spent half your post also saying, "Well, Nancy's probably wrong". First, for the rest of us, there is no "probably" on this issue--she is "definitely" wrong. Second, people like PurpleKitten, being already upset, aren't going to focus on any of your "Well, Nancy's probably wrong" qualifiers--they're only going to hear the negative part about "I hope you're in a safe place next week".

Thank you Jigsaw... When I read Josuns reply, I did feel like I should never have expressed my fear. Im sorry that I am an inferrior person, who cannot help but be afraid. Before I found out that Nancy had gived definate dates, I was fine. I was fine going through 15th. I was convinced that it didn't exsist... I trusted all of you when you told me that it DIDNT exsist. I still do trust you all. I went and looked for it, and couldnt find it. I knew it didnt exsist. I know now that it doesnt exsist.

I don't know why I have a horrible gut feeling. Its nerves of having to go through this whole waiting crap again. Its giving me nightmares. Its stupid I know and I apologise if it seems I am wasting anyones time with this. I don't mean to frustrate people or make them mad. Maybe I shouldnt post here anymore.

And Josun... Im sorry.

[josun]

Purplekitten wrote:

Thank you Jigsaw... When I read Josuns reply, I did feel like I should never have expressed my fear. Im sorry that I am an inferrior person, who cannot help but be afraid

Purplekitten,
You have every right to express your fear, I have it also at times.

I wish to sincerely apologize for presenting the original statement to sound cold and calloused
I realy meant no harm in that statement, I just presented it in a less than desirable way, and have had it brought to my attention, And you are in no way a inferior person, In fact when you post I can emphatize with you ,because I was in that fear also.

So no hugs for me ,I will understand....In fact you can trash me for my statements anytime you would like, and I will learn to respond to people a little more kindly (-(
Cheers,
josun

[purplekitten]

*hugs Josun*

I can be a little emotional about things sometimes... When I am scared, my imagination can sometimes run riot and make me forget some things. That is why I need a little reasurence sometimes.

I can understand how frustrating it can be to try and reassure someone who is frightened of something that they don't quite understand. Most people here are scientists and astronomers so they can understand the reasons why it couldnt exsist or do anything that Nancy claims it can do.

Im in no way scientifically inclined. All I am is a little Goth Gal who makes hair extentions for a living. I love looking at the stars in the sky because they are amazingly beautiful and I love learning about the planets and the universe because it is so unbeliveably amazing! But when people start talking in scientific terms, my brian spazzes out and it just doesnt compute

And that I think is where my problem lies....

[josun]

Purplekitten,

In spite of all the reassuring of this site, I too get that bad feeling at times, It is like What if it does, However when I feel like that I come to here and always go away feeling better, My hope for you is that you will also.
We are only Human, and not fully aquainted with the Galaxy around us, and that is probably what causes the fear....Fear of the unknown.

So when the scientific theory is explained at this site and the fact that no people in the astronomical realm have seen it, That it is in fact a Hoax it has to make us feel a little better inside.

Just keep coming here, because the majority do care and want to explain thier knowledge of the universe, I really feel they enjoy explaining. "I know I would".

Cheers....Now go have a Great Day!

edit: Thanks for the hugs, And please do not put yourself down, You mean alot to many people on this board and at your home also.
I think that what you do for a living sounds great....You get to keep up with the Gothic style...
I am for the moment sitting at home unemployed with a mortgage over my head...But I will get through it, In fact I am in a way , enjoying the time out of a stressful work enviorment that I usually get into.

[carolyn]

Ha, my brain 'spazzes out' all the time purple kitten, tis normal

This is a site that I found which you both might like a look at.

http://www.astro.queensu.ca/~hanes/p...rse_Notes.html

I thought it was really good. I'm note a sci type iether, a teacher of DT, a bit of science there but not much.

My take on the bad feeling thing is that Nancy & Zeta talk. Its' akin to hard selling or advertising, as much as you think you are not effected, you are, subcontiously, so although your contious self knows its a load of huey, there is some part of your subcountous that naggs away at you, the advertising industry knows, this it is how they get you to by their products. they where you down slowley over time. the trick is to realise that this is what is happening. then you can start to combat it.

Personal confesion time, ops: today - shoping in saisbury's, I caught my self looking at, no be honest, putting in my trolly... :roll: extra tins of tuna, why ? took me 1 minute to realise, laugh and put them back! see it happens to all of us, usualy when we least expect it, it's what they rely on to keep the ball rolling. Don't even like tuna much!!! end of confesion

[carolyn]

see you call tell i am a DT teacher my spelling is appauling! HA HA, (or my brain is spazzing out again!)

[beady]

But when people start talking in scientific terms, my brian spazzes out and it just doesnt compute

You want to read two books, both by Carl Sagan: "Cosmos," and "Pale Blue Dot." Especially "Cosmos." Maybe better, try to view a copy of the video "Cosmos"; it may be available from your library or, just possibly, from a rental outlet. At a purchase price of $130 US for the DVD (it's also abailable on tape) it's a little expensive, but I thought it to be well-worth it.

If you want a plain-language explanation and demonstration of "all that is or ever was or all that ever will be," this is absolutely essential reading/viewing.

Caveat: He does get a little preachy when talking about conservation and politics. Feel free to just skip over those parts.

[WolfKC]

Only the clocks which keep time by counting power-line cycles. This is rare nowadays; most electronic clocks use a crystal timebase.

Not to mention the fact that many places have power quality monitors installed which will record a deviance of .1 hz or more. This would show up in data all over the country.

You might be missing the point. I'm not saying they will actually attempt to control clocks by power cycle changes or if they did they would be successful. I'm saying that's one of the nutso things Nancy might say.

[poorleno]

Nancy was on a talkshow last night and said that the exact dates the earth will stop rotating are the 20th and 21st..... on the 20th you will see the sunset 2 hours later than usual and on the 21st the earth will stop rotating.....

I do remember Nancy saying that she couldn't give out any exact dates, so what changed her mind?

Ok, is that worldwide or what? What about sweden, will we have 2 hour late sunset too ? Sticking to her theory of course

[WolfKC]

Ok, is that worldwide or what? What about sweden, will we have 2 hour late sunset too ? Sticking to her theory of course

Sticking to her theory, the whole world should notice a late sunset on 20th and rotation stop on the 21st.
But I'm already reading rumors about the whole thing being delayed until June. After all, what fun would it be if it were proven wrong and we didn't have a looming disaster around the corner.

[ToSeek]

According to the latest chat log, the rotation stop is supposted to take place on May 21 when PX is directly over the Atlantic Ridge. Since PX is in the direction of the Sun (at least that seems to be the case - you never can tell since it's not obeying the laws of physics), I'm assuming that's on the order of 10 am EDT. Head for high ground now!

[Byrd]

Carolyn brings up a good point that hasn't been addressed in all this disaster-ism: there's a lot of ancient monuments that were aligned with the stars. We see in them only small changes due to the precession of the equinoxes. If any of this disasterism had been true, they'd have been misaligned... the pieces that were left standing, that is. Stonehenge would have completely collapsed.

[doubtful]

Although many people are quite able to "read" body language correctly, how does one decide by the spoken word if the person is telling the truth? After listening to the mp3 interview, it is quite apparent that NL was NOT channeling the Zetas...after all, wouldn't they be dispassionate about the "governmental conspiracy"? If, as she states, "they" just want to warn us, the info should have been given without all of the passion....LISTEN to her voice...its OBVIOUS that she was just "saying" that it was Zetatalk. OK, the USGS does not report all of the earthquakes, the weather is changing, the world is being polluted, the fish are dying, newly identified diseases are evident, the poles have changed in the remote past, we are running out of fresh water...and on & on & on. Those of us who are now in our 50's were taught in public school that all of these earth changes would occur. People, the earth is a dynamic living planet...it changes, WE ADAPT...There's not a darn thing we can do to affect any major earth change. In the past people, plants, & animals migrated as these changes occured. Did they have access to every scientific study ever published? Did they have access to every "seers" theory? Humanity will live on no matter what! She is lying....listen to her voice with an objective ear......The TRUE enemy of man is ignorance & lack of education. I personally feel that part of the public's acceptance of all of this is due in no small part to the terror alerts, the war, and the current state of the government..... +LLL+

[carolyn]

Hi doubtful

'The TRUE enemy of man is ignorance & lack of education.'

I'd agree with that.

[ktesibios]

Only the clocks which keep time by counting power-line cycles. This is rare nowadays; most electronic clocks use a crystal timebase.

Not to mention the fact that many places have power quality monitors installed which will record a deviance of .1 hz or more. This would show up in data all over the country.

You might be missing the point. I'm not saying they will actually attempt to control clocks by power cycle changes or if they did they would be successful. I'm saying that's one of the nutso things Nancy might say.

Not exactly. I thought you had made a pretty shrewd guess about an excuse we'd be likely to hear from someone completely ignorant about electicity. Might as well debunk it in advance, since it's so easy.

[Jigsaw]

Im sorry that I am an inferrior person, who cannot help but be afraid.

Aw, PK, honey, I'm a Nervous Nellie, too, it's nothing to be ashamed of. You should see the way my family snickers at me when, just before we drive off in the car, I nervously turn around and count heads to make sure they're all there. And they're like, "Mom, we're teenagers now, you don't have to worry about leaving one of us at home in the playpen anymore..."

And don't get them started on "Mom's Y2K Supplies"...

It's okay to be concerned about stuff, as long as you don't let it disable you from functioning normally.

And, honey, I'm neither a scientist nor an astronomer, either--just a housewife who reads a lot.

Josun, I'd bet that if you talked to Nancy in person, you'd come away being even more convinced that Planet X was real. Thing is, she really does believe this, and listening to her in person, all that passion, all that flow of words, she'd have you walking away making plans to start digging a trench in your back yard.

[josun]

Josun, I'd bet that if you talked to Nancy in person, you'd come away being even more convinced that Planet X was real. Thing is, she really does believe this, and listening to her in person, all that passion, all that flow of words, she'd have you walking away making plans to start digging a trench in your back yard.

Who really knows for sure?, After reading a little profile on her and reading some of her IRCs, and listening to the radio talks I feel I almost know her character. I have met others like her....
I have also stated from the onset that She does in fact believe what she is saying, To her this is not a hoax.....for me to start digging a ditch now, I would need to see tangible evidence....Rotation Stopping for instance , or maybe the extra two hours for sunset.....Maybe so at first ,I am not sure, but I would have questioned her theory on as many points as she displays on her site , and kept observing the manner in how she answered.
And besides that! If I dug a trench in my back yard I would end up under water, I would have to choose the Nomadic lifestyle, and be looked upon with all those doubting eyes as I encountered a camp , in one of the secret places,being questioned as to if I was STS or STO,.... Eating worms and grubs and pine needles (vitamin c)...Not to mention all the other enjoyments of that sort of a lifestyle....Hot Dawg!!!Let me at it.