Contagious 9/11 topics

[BadScience]

I am not much of a poster here, so I have no voice, therefore forgive me to place an opinion: but do we need this forum to be used for more and more 9/11 debates?
The name bar of this site says Bad Astronomy and Universe and there is very little evidence of 9/11 having any significance or relation to either.
There are many highly educated people here in filed of astronomy and science and topics about Moon Hoax, Appolo etc are of rare high educational value.

But if these same people get engaged in a debate with 9/11 conspiracy terrorists [sic] the situation quickly gets out of the hand with 800 replies that become more or less a mirror of any other 9/11 forum with the same copy-and-paste arguments on both sides. Believe me, these things do consume your lives, bring nothing that has not been said 100 times before and turn out a whole forum into a mine-is-bigger contest!

Not to even mention that it is impossible to read through 800 replies - it is like listening a phone conversation of 10 people all at the same time.

There is a Conspiracy Theory out there that once you start engaging in a 9/11 topics it will soon hijack the forum into an unreadable word mash with both sides becoming overnight amateur explosion/ demolition/ politics/ government... experts. Nothing wrong to voice your opinion, but in 800 replies?

So far my experience is that people who are real experts in government affairs and are "IN", have actually very little intention to post on internet (or in fact to acknowledge the existence of internet at all!) My proof? Just randomly read any of the 9/11 topic replies on this or any other forum and you will probably come to the same conclusion.

It must be not enough Moon landing hoaxes lately or someting. Bring some juicy ones, you lousy CTs!

[Matherly]

It must be not enough Moon landing hoaxes lately or someting. Bring some juicy ones, you lousy CTs!

Actually, I think your quite right there. There just isn't enough space based conspiracies to keep this part of the board going. So Phil and Fraiser have allowed all conpiracy theories to be disscussed here.

But you have a point. Things have gotten a bit... repetative.

[Mellow]

I have to say I agree also, don't read this part of te board nearly as much as I used to.

[Swift]

I have mixed feelings. I understand how you feel BadScience - 9/11 has nothing to do with Astronomy. But here, as elsewhere on this forum, we discuss a lot of other science too. I like that, and would probably participate less if we only discussed astronomy.

As Matherly said, it would be a lot quieter if only space based conspiracies (moon hoax, UFOs) were discussed here. 9/11 definitely has a science component in its discussion. You are right that the same thing gets repeatedly alot, but the same thing happens when we discuss the Moon Hoax too.

[R.A.F.]

I have mixed feelings.

As do I. We must be careful for what we "wish" for. This board is very lucky not to have Moon hoax believers starting thread after thread after thread. When that is done, it all becomes a mess.

However, If you think there are a lot of 911 threads here, you should check out the JREF conspiracies forum...it's pretty much "wall to wall" with 911 threads.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing, it's just the way it is...

[Grand_Lunar]

It is a mixed feeling, BadScience.

Nice as it is for a variety of conspiracy theories to be around here, events of the world just happen to involve 9/11 events.

On the plus side, issues regarding that do involve science, so it can be tackled here.

Eventually, though, the claims become tiresome.

[Tinaa]

I also have mixed feelings. I have to read the same ole stuff over and over and over and over... Moderating this area is no fun at all. We are desperately trying to get a set of rules for this part of the board. That would make my job much easier.

Thanks to all of you for trying to help keep things running smoothly-er.

[Grand_Lunar]

Moderating this area is no fun at all.

I can tell!

[BadScience]

Yes of course, it is interesting to read first 200 posts, but it is my experience 9/11 crowd can pretty much hijack a forum and turn it into a screaming theatro. Then soon, most of the serious members will drop out tired of even reading the same stuff, like let's say in 600 reply somebody say, "Hey check this guy and point you to the prof. Jones pages".
I am not blaming 9/11 people (althrough some of them proved to have pretty weird motives) because this is a deep issue of our time and it push many people into questioning the future of our lives (On side note, many US media would often claim our world time is now divided into pre-9/11 and post 9/11 - which only shows its preschool mentality).
But no matter on which side you are standing on 9/11, discussing it is not a old cozy "moon-landing made in a studio set" story where you can wave a scientific hand and call "C-rock" guy the name he deserves. (Dumb as wall)

9/11 is a horror story of our times but not because some buildings may or may not have explosives. There are hundreds of thousands human lifes, including many children lost as a direct or indirect result of 9/11. And for what? For yacht payments, big christmas bonuses and fat portfolio. Killing for profit is not a science. And killing for profit it is.

Unfortunately most of the time neither side of 9/11 argument is willing to acknowledge the implications of these events for all of us and next generation (if any). It is very easy to take 9/11 out of context and pretend it was all done in a snow globe. Surprised attack! Shock and Awe! They hate our freedom! Bring it on! etc...
This is again example of a pre-school mentality that is always a cause of bigger and bigger trouble when adults behave like this.

To bring it to the original title, on forum such as this a pre-school mentality will draw all adults away and you will end up moderating pre-schoolers trying to outdo each other who can google "facts" faster.

Honestly I loved when you were talking about Moon hoaxes, UFOs, or even other political CTs. I had learned a lot from the first two - things that you can't easily google or read anywhere because many of the people wasting time here are space and astronomy insiders.

But a 9/11 talk is just throwing things which both sides google, see on TV or read in official report or on back of cereal box at each other, without ANYONE here having actually being the insider.

[Swift]

<snip>
9/11 is a horror story of our times but not because some buildings may or may not have explosives. There are hundreds of thousands human lifes, including many children lost as a direct or indirect result of 9/11. And for what? For yacht payments, big christmas bonuses and fat portfolio. Killing for profit is not a science. And killing for profit it is.

BadScience, I'm not exactly sure what your point is here, but I suspect it is getting into politics, which is not allowed on this board. I can appreciate it that 9/11 is a very emotional issue, and one can debate therefore whether it is appropriate for discussion on BAUT. But I would hate for you to get caught up in the same problems.

[Laguna]

No, it takes more than to google to counter 9/11 claims.
It took quite some effort to learn something about fusion and fission bombs, find backgound information on different designs and differences between US and USSR designs.

[Van Rijn]

Honestly I loved when you were talking about Moon hoaxes, UFOs, or even other political CTs. I had learned a lot from the first two - things that you can't easily google or read anywhere because many of the people wasting time here are space and astronomy insiders.

Yes, you do pick up interesting details here and there, but I think you'll find that even with this subject you'll get burned out the hundredth time a MHer starts a thread with "Why can't you see the moon landings with a telescope from earth?" or "There are no stars in the moon landing pictures!" About insiders: While there certainly are people here that work in aerospace fields that can add important details and perspective that are much appreciated, most of the technical details presented are available to anyone that does the research on and off the internet. The point is this isn't a debate between "insiders" and MHers. This is a discussion that is based on the science and engineering that is ultimately available to anyone who looks at it carefully.

But a 9/11 talk is just throwing things which both sides google, see on TV or read in official report or on back of cereal box at each other, without ANYONE here having actually being the insider.

No, the discussion here on 9/11 has been about the evidence and the claims. Just like the MH issues, this involves knowledge and research into various areas of engineering and physics. You'll see many of the same types of issues involving evidence (what we see in an image), engineering (for instance, how buildings collapse) or physics (for instance, how metal weakens or nuclear devices work). Mind you, I do get tired of the repetition as with the MH claims and I'd say some of these threads are pointless, even given the "it's for the lurkers" argument. In those cases, I don't participate or participate very little.

[Time Has Come Today]

Debating 9-11 was a prior venue of mine before my religious experience which put me on my current path, and calling, to save this planet from the comet and global warming,,, but I will allow myself this one time comment since I feel most compelled to discuss truth wherever and whenever it is called for.

1.9-11 was scripted and that is the truth.
2.Osama is aligned with the U.S. intelligence covert community(still, as in the cold war days).
3.The 9-11 commission did a good 'white-wash'.
4.Marvin Bush was never subpeoned to testify his positon in the two companies that handled surveillance and security at the W.T.C. and airports.
5.The buildings did implode after being hit by the remote controlled planes that had no hijackers in the cockpits.
6.Al Queda did not cause our Pentagon to have wargames that paralled the attack that day.
7.PNAC happens, and so do Pearl Harbor catalysts when you want them to.
8.No such 'comedy of errors' has ever happened before in history, and only a fool could believe the 'official version'
**9.PNAC's interventionist agenda was always about the Oil, and not about bringing Freedom and Democracy to the M.E.(though that was a good ideal, even if not practical).
10.??!!The investigations teams that looked at the W.T.C. mess were 'insiders'.

**Although about the Oil, the larger agenda is the accomplishment of a One World Government Order which is to be achieved through a multiple 3 stage war setting. War is the ultimate distraction for the masses, and allows the government paticular privileges that it normally does not have.
As we can see under G.W.B., these same people who pretend to want to defend our Freedoms, are taking them away very quickly.
Fascism is the Order of the Day, and anyone mildly familiar with the Bush family dynasty history, knows the truth of Fascism's presence within the past 100 years, and especially during the Nazi era.
*See John Loftus's book 'The Secret War Against the Jews' for a good understanding that you will not find anywhere else.

??!!The Office of Personnel Management was privatized around 1996, and Carlyle Group bought it from the first party that initially took over this function.
Carlyle is in effect the owner defacto of these U.S. of America, or at least a majority share holder of our Corporate Government.
Carlyle employs their subsidiary U.S.I.S., and they do the hiring and surveillance background check for the Government.
With that said, now you know how to stack the inside deck to benefit a covert operation of this magnitude.
Of course, normal compartmentalization methods are employed, and 'nudges and annoying folk', are disposed of as needed.

However, even these insiders are getting annoyed with what they are seeing, and there is a splintering of these insiders away from the main script.

*Also, as we currently witness overseas, the Russian connection is also breaking up, and hence they made this spectacle of the poisoned Russian agent known to everyone, so as to shut down opposition wherever they might be. A 'warning' if you will.

*And as we all know, this is a 'Paradigm' objective with global reach, and so all this 'conspiracy' is monitored by the useful idiot(if you will), who knows not what they are helping to enable, but only wishes their $5.75 pay check for spying out their fellow brothers and sisters comments in free open forums.


Of course, nothing will ever come of this N.W.O./One World Order, because if the Earth is to be saved from Global Warmings effect and the destroyer comet, the Industrial-Oil paradigm will have to tame itself and behave.
And that is a certain fact, and will have to be accepted.

[jt-3d]

5.The buildings did implode after being hit by the remote controlled planes that had no hijackers in the cockpits.

Well I hope you do better at saving the planet.

This has probably all been dealt with here, at some point. Certaintly most of it has. And it's rediculous.
I'll just ask you where did all the passengers go? Were they on the planes but nobody was flying? I wouldn't get on a plane with no pilots. Would you? Did pilots take off and then parachute out? Nobody calling from the planes mentioned the pilots bailing out. Oh, they did mention hijackers though. Oh yeah, they also mentioned the pilots being killed by the non existant hijackers. Are the passengers all living in luxury somewhwere with assumed names? Care to tell that to the victim's families?

[BadScience]

??!!The Office of Personnel Management was privatized around 1996, and Carlyle Group bought it from the first party that initially took over this function.
Carlyle is in effect the owner defacto of these U.S. of America, or at least a majority share holder of our Corporate Government.
Carlyle employs their subsidiary U.S.I.S., and they do the hiring and surveillance background check for the Government.

I am not aware that Carlyle bought it from a first party. I think you reffering to Welsh, Carson, Anderson, and Stowe who ARE Carlyle Group and bought it for something like 500 millions. Only few people fully realize how amazing the deal actually is. (so kudos to you). Let's not forget the Office of Federal Investigations that has also been part of this sweet-sweet deal and privatized by WCAS.

Anyway, I don't like the 9/11 hijacking of this forum and we should stick to the harmless and cozy Moon Hoaxes, UFOs, Martians etc...
This should stay apolitical forum, and despite some of the previous posts who say otherwise, I don't see how you can actually stay apolitical while discussing 9/11. It is dandy that Phil and Fraiser allowed all conspiracy theories here because of the lack of others, but sadly the really important things in current politics (such as the landgrab of federal agencies last 10 years) are simply conspiracies without the "theories" attached to them. Believe me it is far better and safer to discuss if Buzz and Neil went on the moon or stay in Roach Motel drinking Martini.

This is why I said on the first post of this topic, stay away from it or you will turn the forum into something you no longer like.

[R.A.F.]

Well I hope you do better at saving the planet.

You know what this means, don't you??

We're all doomed!!

[BadScience]

You know what this means, don't you??

We're all doomed!!

It is funny, isn't it! I laugh with you all the way to my bank.
It will not be funny for our kids, but who damn cares about them.

[Tinaa]

...Anyway, I don't like the 9/11 hijacking of this forum and we should stick to the harmless and cozy Moon Hoaxes, UFOs, Martians etc...
This should stay apolitical forum, and despite some of the previous posts who say otherwise, I don't see how you can actually stay apolitical while discussing 9/11. It is dandy that Phil and Fraiser allowed all conspiracy theories here because of the lack of others, but sadly the really important things in current politics (such as the landgrab of federal agencies last 10 years) are simply conspiracies without the "theories" attached to them. Believe me it is far better and safer to discuss if Buzz and Neil went on the moon or stay in Roach Motel drinking Martini.

This is why I said on the first post of this topic, stay away from it or you will turn the forum into something you no longer like.

We allow discussing other CTs to try to teach critical thinking.

[peter eldergill]

It is funny, isn't it! I laugh with you all the way to my bank.
It will not be funny for our kids, but who damn cares about them.

I think you misunderstood RAF's statement. I think he was saying that if the previous poster does the same quality job with critical thinking on global warming than with 9/11, then the planet is doomed

Am I correct RAF?

Pete

[Gillianren]

This should stay apolitical forum, and despite some of the previous posts who say otherwise, I don't see how you can actually stay apolitical while discussing 9/11.

Evidence is apolitical. Besides which not all "supporters of the official story" are also "supporters of the current administration." I'm sure there are people (I name no names) who would love to see the current administration shot down in flames. However, quite a lot of them also look at the science and say, "It is obvious what happened here. The evidence all supports the Big Frickin' Plane theory."

It's harder to look at recent events objectively, so let's take a step back and look at, say, Watergate. While this is in and of itself a political crime, the facts stand. The facts don't care about political parties or personalities. The roles could be entirely reversed, with a Democratic candidate bugging CREP HQ, and the facts would stand. The evidence holds.

[Van Rijn]

Anyway, I don't like the 9/11 hijacking of this forum and we should stick to the harmless and cozy Moon Hoaxes, UFOs, Martians etc...
This should stay apolitical forum, and despite some of the previous posts who say otherwise, I don't see how you can actually stay apolitical while discussing 9/11.

We do it by discussing the evidence, not the politics.

When we do discuss arguments about moon hoaxes, UFOs, Martians, etc. there are often accusations of government conspiracies and declarations that those of us who state facts or question interpretations of images are either government propaganda agents or we simply believe "all American government lies." Now, you may find that amusing, but obviously some actually believe it. So, presumably, to stay apolitical we should not discuss these subjects either.