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Thread: Does Life Need Water To Survive?

  1. #1
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    Does Life Need Water To Survive?

    This may be a trick question.

    I'm reading numerous sources that say all life (as we know it) requires water.

    "Ice won't do it. Water vapor in the air won't do it. Somehow there has to condense at least a microlayer of water," for life to evolve and survive, said Gene McDonald a scientist at the Astrobiology Research Element at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

    I'm trying to reconcile this idea with observations of human bacteria found on moon spacecraft; microbes brought to life that were encased in resin for millions of years; spores stored in anhydrous & anaerobic conditions.

    RBG

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by RBG View Post
    This may be a trick question.

    I'm reading numerous sources that say all life (as we know it) requires water.

    "Ice won't do it. Water vapor in the air won't do it. Somehow there has to condense at least a microlayer of water," for life to evolve and survive, said Gene McDonald a scientist at the Astrobiology Research Element at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

    I'm trying to reconcile this idea with observations of human bacteria found on moon spacecraft; microbes brought to life that were encased in resin for millions of years; spores stored in anhydrous & anaerobic conditions.

    RBG
    Well life as we know does require water but we do not know about life elsewhere that may evolve in situations were liquid water is scarce and there are other liquids around.

    Aboout bacteria found on moon spacecraft or in resin or spores that were in anhydrous conditions they started there life on earth were liquid was available to them and when they were put in these extreme conditions the biological functions either stopped or slowed down so they did not water for very long times.

  3. #3
    With out water life either dies or in the case of some bacteria and other little critters, goes dormant and ceases "life functions" until there is water available.

    It has been suggested that there could be life on other worlds that use ammonia as a solvent instead of water. This could exist in liquid form on colder planets or earth temperature planets with higher atmospheric pressure.

  4. #4
    Hum,
    i think the silicate lifeforms from Janus VI would think this as a crude example of carbon chauvinism.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RBG View Post
    I'm trying to reconcile this idea with observations of human bacteria found on moon spacecraft
    What bacteria found on moon spacecraft?

    These? Apollo 12 Remembered - Lunar Germ Colony Or Lab Anomaly?

    Author and space historian, James Oberg wrote in the same thread that 'It is widely believed that streptococcus germs aboard Surveyor-3 (inside the TV camera) survived their three-year lunar sojourn and were brought back to Earth by the Apollo-12 crew. Leonard D. Jaffe was Surveyor project scientist and custodian of the Surveyor 3 parts brought back from the moon.'

    He wrote to the Planetary Society recently that according to a report from somebody on his staff who had witnessed the biological test which gave positive results, a "breach of sterile procedure" took place at just the right time to produce a false positive result."

    One of the implements being used to scrape samples off the Surveyor parts was laid down on a non-sterile laboratory bench, and then was used to collect surface samples for culturing. It was that sample set which showed the presence of the germs, a common human infectuous bacteria.

    Concluded Dr. Jaffe, 'It is, therefore, quite possible that the microorganisms were transferred to the camera after its return to Earth, and that they had never been to the Moon. The test, of course, could only be performed once, and the parts were subsequently taken out of quarantine and fully re-exposed to terrestrial conditions, so we'll never know for sure. But it looks suspiciously like a lab error rather than a lunar germ colony.'

  6. #6
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    Sheesh. Ya, those. It's amazing how prevalent the germs-on-the-moon story is on the internet. (I'm going to have to see if Snopes has anything on this.) I must say, I had my suspicions which I forced aside with the knowledge that these scientists must be working at a scientific level I couldn't even dream about. I guess I was right. Hope they're not the same guys working with Eboli.

    RBG

  7. #7
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    Here's an older article with the original claim:
    http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/head...t01sep98_1.htm

    the Wiki entry includes the comment that the claim was later withdrawn:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_3

    The discussion goes on, the case is not closed:
    http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1311.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of...is_on_the_moon

  8. #8
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    From your last link:

    "To quote David Hume: "The gazing populace receive greedily, without examination, whatever soothes superstition and promotes wonder.""

    Don't you just hate when that happens.

    RBG

  9. #9
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    Well, to be fair, there "might" have been contamination. It's not confirmed one way or the other.

    And, certainly, it is plausible for bacteria to survive in space.

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    You provided some pretty good links there. I believe one of them explains that Strep bacteria barely survive for long outside the body - on Earth.

    RBG

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBG View Post
    This may be a trick question.

    I'm reading numerous sources that say all life (as we know it) requires water.
    The kicker is "as we know it." Yes, life as we know it requires water. If we speculate on what is physically possible, however, I see no reason to assume that life "as we don't know it" would require water, or even any solvent. Whether it is possible for such to develop is, of course, unknown.

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBG View Post
    You provided some pretty good links there. I believe one of them explains that Strep bacteria barely survive for long outside the body - on Earth.

    RBG
    Note that there are different types of bacteria.

    Some are extremophiles.

  13. #13
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    If anyone is still not convinced, until relatively recently science said all life required sunlight also. But life, and not just microbes or bacteria but complex creatures, were discovered to thrive in the darkness of the ocean's great trenches. some at temperatures well above what we ever thought possible. life adapts to it's surroundings, so it's not outlandish to say that life couldn't exist without water.

    Besides, I don't think most scientist say "life can't excist without water", they're saying all of the living things we know about right *now* require water. IMHO, with further exploration of the neighboring planets, I'd be willing to bet that eventually we will find some form of life (not inteligent) on one of our very own neighbors. might be "alien" or could be contaminate from our own probes that manages to hold up to the conditions. ...of course, maybe there won't ever be anything. that's the excitement of exploration.

  14. #14
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    well, we do have a few datapoints that we could consider. There are lots and lots of ice balls in the solar system. There are ice moons, a planet (Mars) with ice, ice comets, etc. And then there's one planet with liquid water.

    So, we have lots of chances for ice life to evolve, and we get nothing (that we know of), and one chance for liquid water life to evolve, and that planet is bursting with diversity.

  15. 2006-Dec-19, 06:44 PM

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