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Thread: Verbatim transcript of Phil/Nancy debate is here (whew!)

  1. #61

    So, does that mean today is the beginning of THE END?

    Frankly, Nancy Lieder is off her rocker! I hope to see the lunar eclipse tonight bu it's been cloudy and rainy today. But it's not like I've never seen one before. Another thing I want to ad is that I found out about this website around a year ago when Phil Plat was a guest on Coast to Coast, my favorite talk show.

  2. #62
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    The C2C MP3 is not a copy of a protected work. It is a pirate (read pirate) of a work. The original doesn't exist, it was a live broadcast.
    Okay. If the Fair Use Exemption of the Copyright Law isn't good enough for ya, how about the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992?

    http://www.sagebrush.com/vcrtech.htm#copyright

    In the USA, recording radio broadcasts for personal use is arguably permitted under the "fair use" provision of copyright law, and seems clearly permitted for music broadcasts under the Audio Home Recording Act of 1992.
    http://www.unc.edu/courses/pre2000fall/law357
    c/cyberprojects/fall01/MusicOnline/page19.html

    Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 (AHRA)

    Exempts consumers from lawsuits for copyright violations when they record music for private, noncommercial use
    The Act itself, and the pertinent section.

    http://www.virtualrecordings.com/ahra.htm
    SUBCHAPTER D. PROHIBITION ON CERTAIN INFRINGEMENT ACTIONS,
    REMEDIES, AND ARBITRATION

    Section 1008. Prohibition on certain infringement actions
    No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings.
    That good enough for ya? Right there in black and white, "you the Consumer can't be sued for copyright infringement for recording something off the radio for non-commercial use."

    Even the RIAA says it's okay to record things off the radio for your own personal non-commercial use.

    http://www.minidisc.org/ahra.html

    RIAA Clarifies the Legality of Home Audio Recording

    The following is a part of a reply from <http://www.soundbyting.com> (a Recording Industry Association of America site) to those who enquired whether non-commercial copying of CDs to MD constituted copyright infringement.

    ... As long as the copying is done for noncommericial use, the AHRA gives consumers immunity from suit for all analog music copying, and for digital music copying with AHRA covered devices.

    < snip >

    In summary: You cannot be prosecuted for making non-commercial copies with AHRA covered devices (e.g. MD and DAT recorders).
    So my non-commercial use of the radio broadcast was to post a transcript of it on the Internet, and Fluffy's non-commercial use of the MP3 of the radio broadcast is to post it here, too. And both these actions are permissible under the Fair Use Exemption of the Copyright Law and the Audio Home Recording Act.

    And the reason the cites are all referring to copying music is because they're all having to do with P2P filesharing and Napster and Kazaa, etc., but the Copyright Law and the AHRA are also applicable to radio talk shows, baseball games, etc. You're allowed to record the Cubs game or Rush Limbaugh for your own non-commercial use.

    And the "owners" of the broadcast--the Cubs or Rush or Coast to Coast--can't do anything about it. As long as you're not making copies of that Cubs game or Rush show and selling them, then you're in the clear.

    And the reason why everyone's up in arms about Kazaa is because this AHRA exemption does not apply to "using a computer to copy music", which is what P2P filesharing does. It only applies to "using a cassette recorder or 'digital media' to copy music".


    I suggest that if you still have a problem with this, you e-mail or PM the Bad Astronomer and talk to him about it, 'cause I think I'm about done with this.

  3. #63
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    Jigsaw: I wanted to let you know that you are now famous at TT-Watch....they linked to your transcript for all the zetazanies to read.....

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tt-watch/message/14751

  4. #64
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    Ah, Jigsaw. The price of fame--linked to a zetasite. :P

  5. #65
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    Excellent! The Fight Against Ignorance proceeds apace...


  6. #66

    Excellent work!

    Good job with the transcript Jigsaw!

    Unfortunately reading what Nancy was saying made me want to stab myself in the face with a soldering iron. I can't wait to listen to the recordings of the show when I get home.

  7. #67
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    Hot or cold?

  8. #68
    Excellent Transcript Jigsaw. I fell asleep waiting for the program to come on and missed it. It's really great to be able to read it here and find out exactly what went on, although there was no doubt about the outcome. This will give me something to read on those nights when I'm afflicted with insomnia. And rock3t, be careful with them there soldering irons okay? And good job Phil, although debunking NL should seem like child's play to you by now. Yeh and perhaps you SHOULD work on those uhs and ohs a little bit.

  9. #69
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    I admit I am unfamiliar with copyright law.
    I agree that the transcript is legal, the recording is legal, and that the owners of the brodcast have the legal right to protect their work.

  10. #70
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    Thank you for typing that jigsaw. None of the PX stuff is on air or in the papers here in Aust as far as I know, so it was great to read.
    Mel.

  11. #71
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    I think the transcript is great! I stuck around to listen to the debate live, and it was fun.

    I'll chime in about the copyright/piracy real quick.

    Has anyone contacted C2C about allowing the recording and transcript? Like most things on the net, people will say Yes if you just ask. If C2C has a beef with it, we can take down the transcript and mp3 from the web. No big deal. I doubt C2C will have an annuerism over this. I think Noory had a ball with it, personally.

  12. #72
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    I'm still wading through the transcript (didn't get to hear the show, drat!) and just wanted to say an enormous "THANK YOU!!!!" to Jigsaw for doing all that work. You did a wonderful job; a real public service and the info you provided will be around for years to haunt Nancy.

    Psi-less

  13. #73

    Looney Bin?

    I think Nancy's first clue that she's full-of-it should be that the United States Fed Gov't isn't pounding down her door to experiment on her and use her to contact the Zetas.

    I'm suprised that one of her neighbors or the local police haven't isn't trying to commit her to a mental institution for being a danger to society.

  14. #74
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    Good point blue. However, the amount of stuff that is wrong with Nancy and pX is enough to fill this board several times over (and likely has come close)..

  15. #75
    I can't stop wondering where Phil actually finds the motivation to deal with this kook at such length.

    I felt the need to point out stuff about mammoths and Finland... there have never been mammoth body finds here. Never ever. I am pretty sure that as a local I would have heard of them.. frozen mammoths are mostly found in Siberia. Never in Finland or the rest of Northern Europe by that matter.

    Even if I'm not a pro, my common sense says that there is a good reason to this. During the last Ice Age Finland, Sweden and Norway were completely covered by a big glacier. This glacier effectively wiped out everything that was on or anywhere near the surface... it's an impossibility to find the remains of anything that lived here prior to the melting of the glacier some 8-9k years ago.

  16. #76
    Since Nancy seems to like talking palaeontology with an astronomer maybe the way to get her to talk more about Planet X is to have her interviewed by a palaeontologist. Maybe the real way to talk about UFOs and the Zetas is to have her interviewed by a submariner.

    Is anyone planning to send her a Christmas card ?

  17. #77
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    Welcome to the BABB, Huckfinn! If you'll look around, I think somebody has a thread going on the "frozen mammoth" thing...

  18. #78
    Thanx for that transcript, Jigsaw!
    Really wish I could've heard it; it sounds like a real hoot.
    You know; there's a way we can please everyone: the planet X-ers, and the rest of us Earthlings. Here's what we do: Let 'em know astronomers have found planet X; and take 'em all to a spot in the desert where "they can see it clearly".
    Then; drop a REALLY big round rock on 'em with a mile-high trebuchet.
    Bingo - everyone's happy. The Xers get what looks an awful lot like a planet dropped on 'em; and we don't have to worry about them anymore.... (Evil chuckle)

    Sorry; that's the best I can do after being awake 40 hours....

  19. #79

    Transcript

    Thanks so much for the transcript. I was unable to hear the interview, so I'm happy I was able to read about it.

    I'm new to the forum. Just thought I'd make my presence known.

    Not sure if I want to start a new topic, but thought I would throw out the question. Do you think zetatalk will finally belly up and disappear, when the Sun fails to set late tonight?

    Eric Carlson

  20. #80
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    Eric, welcome to the board! That's been a matter of some debate both here and on sci.astro, as well as probably other places.

    The general consensus is that while some will fall by the wayside, the True Believers will simply jump to another PX prophet (Mark Hazlewood, James McCanney) or swallow whatever explanation is offered by Ms. Lieder.

    Nobody really expects Ms. Lieder to admit she was wrong. Nor do we expect that from the real hard-core PXers.

    Too bad. Admitting a mistake is a sign of maturity, and a sign of a desire and ability to learn.

  21. #81

    Or just maybe...

    Just maybe...they'll all have a round of koolaid some time this week to toast to the approaching doom...hate to be so gruesome, but I think alot of the followers of Ms Lieder missed the Heaven's Gate ship...

  22. #82
    Just got the opportunity, thanx to the excellent download provided by one of the bb members, to listen to the broadcast. Mr. Plait did a superb job; made her look like a real idiot, especially when she started spouting 'zetatalk?'
    The problem though, is the same problem when dealing with fanatics - countering wild claims with logic. These people don't want logic; it won't sway them. What they want is complete and unswerving acceptance of their weird patchwork of reality.
    MY question is how Ms. Weirder - I mean ms. Leider will respond when the day comes and goes. How much do you want to bet that the Zetans - in their infinite mercy and power - will override their rule of noninterference, step in and save Earth 'At the last second'?

  23. #83
    Um, hello there! New to the boards and such, just kind of ran across this website while doing some research. I had first heard about ZetaTalk through eavesdropping on a conversation between a friend of mine and a classmate, and I was somewhat curious, so I thought I would research on the internet. Going to college at a private liberal arts college, I've been exposed to some weird people, and it especially bothers me that a few people who go to such an acclaimed college (Hendrix College is one of the top liberal arts colleges in the US) actually had interest in this stuff. But, anyways, I found your site, and most importantly these transcipts, to be extremely informative and amusing. I have read a couple of those "Why do people believe weird things" books before (argh, yes, I can't remember the author now, I'm that bad) and I have been exposed to weird cults and factions on my campus before, as i have previousily noted, and yet even still Nancy's case is one that bothers me so much. I don't know if I should feel sorry or angery or what, as it has been noted by many, sometimes it appears as if she honestly believes her crud and that maybe her intentions aren't bad, but at other times her stubborness, ego, and drive to just attack anyone who merely asks a good question makes her appear to be far beyond just delusional. Oh well, I digress, I really just wanted to say that I really liked the debate transcription (great job on that!) and I liked the website.

    Heh, it'll be interesting when June 2nd comes without incident. Zeta's infinite mercy? Maybe, that or government disinformants have convinced us that nothing happened when really 90% the world's population have been killed by this traveling planet X that somehow only a handful will even "see".

  24. #84
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    Hi and welcome to the BABB, get comfortable, look around a bit, as you can see there's more to us than just the Twinkie Debunkers.

    As to "June 2 coming and going without incident", well, see, you just got here, but we've already seen a number of deadlines come and go--first April, when we were ALL supposed to be able to see Planet X with the naked eye, and then May 15th (actually I forget what was supposed to happen on May 15), and May 20th, and now May 21st is heading on out without the Earth's rotation stopping and without any 2-hours-late sunrises or sunsets manifesting themselves, so now the next deadline is, I think, May 25 and 26, when the actual poleshift is supposed to take place, when the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is supposed to align with Planet X, coming out of the sun, and the Earth's "crustal plates" (which is how Nancy keeps referring to them) are supposed to pull apart from the gravitational stresses and cause havoc, doom, destruction, apocalypse, and higher gas prices.

    I may have some of this wrong--it all starts to blur together after a while, ya know? Can't keep my Doomsday Timetable straight...


    Anyway, stick around, read through the threads in the Planet X forum, they're all a real hoot. We're going to miss her when she's gone.

  25. #85
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    Oh, no we won't.


    Besides, somebody else will come along ranting and raving with the Truth(tm) shortly.

  26. #86
    What the heck is a 'Crustal Plate'?????
    Besides that thing mouldering away in the back of my fridge, that is.

  27. #87
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    Well, evidently she has some grasp of the idea of plate tectonics, but it's only a vague grasp. You know how when the subject of plate tectonics comes up on one of those network news "science" bits, the Talking Head always says that the plates "float on the surface of the magma"? I think Nancy takes that literally, that she has a mental image of the "crustal plates" scooting around on Planet Earth like dollops of whipped cream on hot chocolate, and that the gravitational influence of a planet, or even a comet, doing a near-miss fly-by would cause those plates to slide around even faster, causing death, destruction, havoc, etc. etc.

  28. #88
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    That's the problem with Nancy. She comes up with enough things that soound vaguely scientific that people without any real knowledge of astronomy or plate techtonics really believe that she know what she's talking about. Jigsaw's image of the whipped cream and hot chocolate is laughable to us, but probably works for Nancy and her followers. I love that image by the way.

  29. #89

    When did Nancy predict Gore's victory?

    Hi, all, first post here.

    Depending on when she is first documented to have given out that Zeta prediction, it might actually be considered somewhat amazing.

    There are sites where you can bet on politics and the gambling odds were very large against Gore "winning" (or in this case at least getting the most votes) until later in the campaign when he started catching up. At one point, very early on (before the conventions), Gore was thirty some points behind Bush in election polls.

  30. #90

    Where do these people come from?

    I have degrees in sociology and social work. I have 4 years couneling experience, and I am now in the army and I must say I have no idea where people like Ms. Lieder get their ideas. Well I am happy to say it is now May 29th and the Earth still hasn't stopped rotating due to planet x, so guess she'll come up wit some explanation from the zeta's, it should at least be interesting.

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