What do you conclude?
the pictures on the URL you posted show that the sky is blue and there appears to be normaal daylight!!! so what point are you making??
Because we've seen the midnight sun ourselves, and we know that you are misinterpreting what was written by the one person on the one website you've referenced. We can even tell from the pictures on the website (broad daylight!) that you're misunderstanding what he wrote.Originally Posted by Attiyah Zahdeh
They travelled rather less than one hundred miles (on admittedly bad roads, which is why it takes a couple of hours) from Fairbanks to Eagle Summit. That's a jaunt for an Alaskan resident: they drive that far to visit friends of an evening.Originally Posted by Attiyah Zahdeh
And they did so from the south: they were outside the Arctic Circle, and they drove to a road that got them a little closer to the Arctic Circle (within 70 miles). Anyone who lived inside the Arctic Circle would have stayed where they were. (Which would probably be in their beds, since the midnight sun is remarkable only to those of us who rarely see it.)
Edit: Now I'm confused. Your post has disappeared while I was typing.
Get it into your head!!!! the sky is blue, its daylight!!!!! aaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!
sorry I ma leaving this thread before I type something I will regret!!!
mutter mumble curse burble!!!!
Where is the normal daylight in the picture from the State of Alaska Division of Tourism?
Please show all the pictures on posted URL to a group of university students or to any group of people, then ask them whether these pictures were taken during a night period (dusky period) or were taken during a normal daytime with a normal blue sky.
Attiyah Zahdeh, the author of the website to which you link writes, in his very first line:
(My bold.)Alaska (and that part of the world above the Arctic Circle) is known as the "Land of the Midnight Sun" for 24 hours of daylight during the Summer.
According to the only person you are prepared to believe on this matter, "Midnight Sun" = "24 hours of daylight".
What do you conclude?
The picture from the State of Alaska Division of Tourism shows that the horizon sky is not of a normal perfect daylight. The skylight of the horizon shows a dusky appearance. It could be concluded that the skylight of the zenith sky was of a normal night.
I know this because I have some experience with photography. I had to take astrophotos in Obervational Astronomy in college. Also, my dad was a police investigator, and often had to take photographs of crime scenes. I helped him take pictures and develop them the old-fashioned way in a darkroom with tubs of chemicals.
Bright lights in the field of view of a camera cause the surroundings to dim greatly. This is true even of my digital camera at home. Even true of my Mini-DV movie camera. When I point the camera at a lamp in my house, the room suddenly looks darker, even though to the naked eye there is no change in the light level of the room.
Try it yourself.
"a real midnight Sun"!
What does ""a real midnight Sun" mean to you?
Does it mean a real Sun at midnight, or a real night which the Sun appears during it even as late as at its middle?
In using "a real midnight Sun", does the doubt concern the night or the Sun?
Edited to add:
Did you read what was written at the link you keep pointing to?
Alaska (and that part of the world above the Arctic Circle) is known as the "Land of the Midnight Sun" for 24 hours of daylight during the Summer. 'Midnight' sun really means that the sun is up at midnight, but reaches its lowest point after 1:30 am. Perhaps the "All-Night Sun" is better.
Does "All-night Sun" or "24 hour+ sun" make it any clearer?
As I said before, "dusky" is not the same as the term "dusk." "Dusky" is a commonly used modifier. The normal sky when the sun is just above the horizon can be described as "dusky." It is not black. It is blue.
Neither. The use of the term has been explained to you repeatedly. If you refuse to accept it, that's your problem.When you hear a person saying :"I want to search for a real midnight Sun", do you consider that he is doubtful about the Sun or about the night?
Meanwhile, arguing about brightness during midnight sun is quite pointless, there is nothing special about it, the nights near solstice are bright enough to read a book outside even here several hundred kilometers below arctic circle.
How dark is it where you live 5 minutes after sunset? If sun doesn't get lower than that whole "night", do you think it should be darker here?
That you're wrong, the same thing I've concluded from my greater-than-yours understanding of the English language.Please google this title "reminder of Fairbanks area day light hours" and read "Finding the Midnight Sun".
What do you conclude from this article and the shown photographs, Gillian?
Okay. You've had the phenomenon described to you by your own cited website. You've had it described to you by people on this board who have observed it from farther north. You've had the etymology explained to you. You've had other translations than Arabic given to you. I'm curious. What, exactly, would it take for you to understand that "midnight sun" means "the sun is in the sky at 12:00 midnight"?
"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
I don't know how much of this is a language issue, how much is not understanding the concept of the angle of the earth relative to the sun, and how much is simple refusal to face facts (despite everyone telling you the same thing) but this couldn't be much more straightforward to me.
Your banging your heads, Attiyah thinks the blue sky is a seperate issue to the light from the su. This is an attempt to support the position in the locked threads that (s)he is supposed to be working on supporting with some evidence and facts. If (s)he can establish that the sky is black even though the sun is 'up' at night time it will support the position in the other threads. I don't think there is any evidence you can give short of taking Attiyah to the Arctic that will have any influence.
Summary so far:
Eye-witness accounts from inside the Arctic Circle, or other than at the solstice, don't count.
Eye-witness accounts from ~25km and ~5km from the Arctic Circle on the solstice don't count.
An eyewitness account from >100km from the Arctic Circle on the day of the solstice does count.
This latter account contains the word "dusky", which is interpreted to mean "midnight dark", even though it also contains the phrase "24-hour daylight".
Only photographs taken towards the sun are significant, since they show a dark sky. Photographs taken looking away from the sun, which show a normal level of daylight, don't count.
Our explanation of the difference in apparent light level in these two classes of picture (as a result of differences in exposure) doesn't count.
The original meaning of the phrase "midnight sun" cannot possibly be known, since it was coined by people now dead who left no records: therefore, we are free to imagine that it was intended to mean "the sun out and the sky dark", in the teeth of current dictionary definitions.
I fear captain swoop may be right.
But, Attiyah Zahdeh, can you see what a complete shambles of an argument that is? It rests on nothing but one cherry-picked datum and special pleading.
There are several ways to quickly get a lot of eyewitness accounts of the appearance of the sky, at midnight, on the solstice, on the Artic Circle - just get a list of towns that are near it (in Alaska, Canada, Greenland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia), find some local tour operators, and make some phone calls.
There might even be places with a line on the ground, like the zero meridian at Greenwich Observatory, marking the Artic Circle, to which the tour operators take tourists, at midnight, on the solstice.
Instead of phone calls, how about finding an internet discussion forum that is highly likely to have people who've stood on the Artic Circle, at midnight, on the solstice? For example, there must be hundreds of people in Rovaniemi* who've done this (and, being Finns, will likely also write in English, and join discussion fora).
*This is just the first 'big' town I found, looking at a map, that's very close to the Artic Circle.
In midwinter in the arctic circle, it is dark at 12:00z. In midsummer at 00:00z it is light.
That's all you need to understand. And whilst I've not experienced either circumsytance myself, I know many who have - and, indeed, have numerous times seen the latter on TV.
Sure there is a line painted on the ground at Santa Claus' Village that tourists can jump across, but it's not really accurate. The real Arctic Circle goes about a kilometer north of that. As I've understood it, it crosses the runway at Rovaniemi airport and moves a couple of hundred meters north and south every few decades due to nutation.There might even be places with a line on the ground, like the zero meridian at Greenwich Observatory, marking the Artic Circle, to which the tour operators take tourists, at midnight, on the solstice.
Do you know if there's a tourist thing in Rovaniemi, or nearby, where people (tourists) go, at midnight, on the summer solstice, and stand on (or near) the (possibly not) Arctic Circle?
It's likely so little a thing that the locals could care less (unless there were some cultural or religious festival/occassion?), but the kind of thing that an entrepreneur would at least try, possibly an American ex-pat.
Or maybe we could ask our US BAUT members if they know of any touristy thing like this, near an Alaskan town?
And I guess we could also ask Attiyah Zahdeh to say how many eye-witness accounts he would consider the minimum acceptable (to provide a satisfactory answer) - 3? 30? 300? 3,000??
Attiyah Zahdeh is very interested in the midnight Sun. Several of us have experiences with seeing it from near the Artic Circle, but he should really try to see it from closer to the pole. Try, for example, taking a June vacation in Hammerfest Norway, or getting a job that would put you in Antartica in December. See the midnight Sun so that it doesn't look like Sunset, but rather is five or more degrees above the horizon.
Forming opinions as we speak