2003 UB313 gets a name; what will it be?

[baric]

"Persephone" has been tossed around a bit as a name for the new planet. But since it's officially a dwarf planet, that seems unlikely.

What would you name our newest dwarf planet?

My preference would be Ymir, the greatest of the frost giants in Norse mythology.

[M24StarCloud]

Personally, I think Hervé Villachaize is a nice name for a dwarf.

[Sticks]

If there are going to be so many DP's why give it a name? Why not stay with the classification number as we do with stars?

In fact if Pluto were discovered today, what would it's classification number be? Maybey it should be stripped of its name and given a classification number along with Ceres, if that is how the IAU feels.

Not that I'm bitter

[Vilkata]

I like Ymir! Except - what if theres a "frost giant" bigger than 2003UB313? Then that wouldnt exactly work.

(Note that typing its number/letter name gets annoying, and is exactly why it needs a proper name... I don't want to keep going "So, you heard about 2003 UB313?". Maybe we would convert it to Leet - Sooe Ubeie ? )

---Vil.

[CuddlySkyGazer]

If there are going to be so many DP's why give it a name? Why not stay with the classification number as we do with stars?

I don't think there are going to be that many. There are billions of stars, and hundreds of thousands of small solar system bodies, but the wildest estimates of dwarf planets don't go much above 100. There are more countries than that, and they all have names!

Ceres and the candidates in the asteroid belt all have names already. For the trans-Neptunian objects, I'd go with mythology (but not Roman just in case there are any planets out there), perhaps restricted to gods of the underworld, or the cold or the dark!

[parallaxicality]

If I remember correctly, KBOs and scattered disc objects must be named after gods of creation. Ymir was one so yeah, that would work. The fact that Mike Brown and co chose a female nickname for their discovery does suggest however, that they are going for a female name.

[kheider]

I like Ymir! Except - what if theres a "frost giant" bigger than 2003UB313? Then that wouldnt exactly work.

---Vil.

Oops. One of Saturn's turds (an insignificant satellite or asteroid) is named Ymir.

I guess if they want a female name Freyja is an option.

Eitri would be good because he is already a Dwarf!

I like the thought of Pluto being killed (demoted) by a dwarf...

-- Kevin Heider

[baric]

Oops. One of Saturn's turds (an insignificant satellite or asteroid) is named Ymir.

I don't think that's much of a roadblock. There's an asteroid named Persephone, but I think the name was still being considered for 2003 UB313.

[baric]

If there are going to be so many DP's why give it a name? Why not stay with the classification number as we do with stars?

2003 UB313 is somewhere around the 10th or 12th largest body in our Solar System. It deserves a real name, I think.

In fact if Pluto were discovered today, what would it's classification number be? Maybey it should be stripped of its name and given a classification number along with Ceres, if that is how the IAU feels.

Not that I'm bitter

As far as Kuiper Belt objects go, Pluto is really big and fairly close. It would be considered one of the most prominent ones and probably the first to get a mission. It would have a real name as well.

[Ilya]

I don't think that's much of a roadblock. There's an asteroid named Persephone, but I think the name was still being considered for 2003 UB313.

There are several asteroids which share names with some moons of the gas giants.

[Romanus]

--Probably after a god that no one outside of Joseph Campbell (R.I.P.) would know about.

[Disinfo Agent]

I still favour Persephone, though it's technically not a planet.

[Wolverine]

I'm wondering what nomenclatural protocol will be followed for dwarf planets more than anything else. These items both ran the same day (Aug. 24th), and I've not seen any hints at clarification since:

From SkyTonight:

Now that 2003 UB313's own classification has been resolved, the IAU will ask Brown to suggest a real name for it, says Ted Bowell (Lowell Observatory), who serves on one of the IAU committees responsible for solar-system nomenclature. "We hope to announce a name within a month or so," he said.

From Space.com:

Despite reports that a name for this object is pending from the IAU, Brown said an early proposal he submitted was long ago rejected. He does not know what he will do now, name-wise. "I'm still trying to figure out what the rules are," he said today.

[Eckelston]

I'm wondering what nomenclatural protocol will be followed for dwarf planets more than anything else.

With tens of potential dwarf planets already named we can't hope to have a consistent naming scheme anymore. Any consistency there is is a consequence of most potential dwarf planets being in the Kuiper belt.

[JeDi]

I'm wondering what nomenclatural protocol will be followed for dwarf planets more than anything else.

I came across this issue on the MPML, surprised that it is really pending.

From Space.com:

Despite reports that a name for this object is pending from the IAU, Brown said an early proposal he submitted was long ago rejected. He does not know what he will do now, name-wise. "I'm still trying to figure out what the rules are," he said today.

Ouch! I missed this one. But since Pluto and Ceres are already gifted with proper names, and some already named KBOs are expected to be dwarfplaneted ... they don't want to rename those, do they? I still don't see why they don't just apply the established rules for minor planets: non-resonant TNO => creation mythology. Do they always want to wait until hydrostatic equilibrium is confirmed or ruled out?

Holy Mother of Bureaucracy!

Or is this bureaucrazy?

[Kullat Nunu]

2003 UB313 is somewhere around the 10th or 12th largest body in our Solar System. It deserves a real name, I think.

17th (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Earth, Venus, Mars, Ganymede, Titan, Mercury, Callisto, Io, Moon, Europa, Triton, 2003 UB313). Pluto is 18th.

Of course it deserves a real name. Even small asteroids are named (if their discoverers care to give a name).

[Wolverine]

Do they always want to wait until hydrostatic equilibrium is confirmed or ruled out?

Perhaps they'll form a committee to form a committee to work out the details.

[baric]

17th (Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Earth, Venus, Mars, Ganymede, Titan, Mercury, Callisto, Io, Moon, Europa, Triton, 2003 UB313). Pluto is 18th.

Of course it deserves a real name. Even small asteroids are named (if their discoverers care to give a name).

I have a great spreadsheet with the orbital and mass data of the 100 or so largest objects in the solar system. I didn't have it handy and wasn't sure how many moons were larger than 2003 UB313, which is around Triton-sized.

[Kullat Nunu]

Triton's diameter is about 2700 km and 2003 UB313's 2400 km (give or take 100 km). If the earlier estimations had been right, 2003 UB313 would have been as much as 3000 km in diameter. Because the object is very bright, in fact it has one of the brightest surfaces in the Solar system, it is smaller than originally thought (that seems to be very common among Kuiper belt objects; almost all of the giant objects have been downsized since their discovery).

[antoniseb]

...it is smaller than originally thought (that seems to be very common among Kuiper belt objects; almost all of the giant objects have been downsized since their discovery).

That is interesting (if true). Somehow there must have been an assumption of a lower albedo that doesn't work out for the larger objects. Hopefully when New Horizons goes passed one or more KBOs in another decade or so we'll get a big clue as to why.

[Kullat Nunu]

Originally KBOs were thought to be as dark as comets like Halley (albedo 0.03, i.e. 3% of light is reflected), which may have originated from the Kuiper belt. Varuna, first of the Ceres-sized objects, was originally believed to be 1000+ km. Ixion, once believed to be larger than Charon seems to be only about 800 km in diameter. It seems that among the large KBOs Quaoar is one of the darkest (0.10), so it wasn't downsized as much as most of them. There is no good estimation of Sedna's diameter, so it may have to be shrinked too. On the other hand, it is unusually red which would suggest a different kind of surface composition. Orcus has also been heavily downsized. It is the brightest after 2003 UB313, Pluto, 2005 FY9 and 2005 EL61, but only 1100 km in diameter (original estimates were 1500-1800 km). I don't know how big its yet to be published "Charon-like moon" is, which may have contributed in the KBO's brightness (the moon was revealed in a Hubble observation proposal). Pluto itself is of course a classic example of a shrinking KBO.

It is possible that some of (especially smaller) KBOs are dark, but many of the larger and especially the giants have bright surface. In the case of the giant KBOs a transient atmosphere could be the culprit. Anyway, it is clear that the trans-Neptunian objects are much more varied group than originally believed.

[kheider]

In order of size:
Sun (dia: 1,390,000 km ; mass: 1.989e30 kg)

Jupiter (142,984 ; 1.9e27)
Saturn (120,536 ; 5.68e26)
Uranus (51,118 ; 8.68e25)
Neptune (49,532 ; 1.02e26) (more massive but smaller than Uranus!)

Earth (12,756 ; 5.97e24)
Venus (12,103 ; 4.87e24)

Mars (6,794; 6.42e23)
Ganymede (5262 ; 1.48e23)
Titan (5150 ; 1.35e23)
Mercury (4880 ; 3.3e23) (smaller but more massive than Titan)
Callisto (4800 ; 1e23)

Io (3630 ; 8.9e22)
The Moon (3476 ; 7.3e22)
Europa (3138 ; 4.8e22)
Triton (2700 ; 2.14e22) (orbits Neptune backwards, so it is probably a captured KBO)
2003 UB313 (2400 +/- 100) (Xena; 97AU; inclination 44 degrees)
Pluto (2274 ; 1.27e22)

Titania (1578 ; 3.49e21)

Ceres (950 ; 1e21) (listed only for comparison to the large KBOs)

It is interesting to note that none of the moons break-up the list of the 3 largest known KBOs! (Triton is probably a captured KBO)
So perhaps the largest KBOs really do seem to belong in a group of their own.

Mike Brown's article that shows that Xena is *shrinking*: Xena size

-- Kevin Heider

[Wolverine]

I was a couple days late getting to this week's episode of Planetary Radio -- which I just discovered features Mike Brown. He briefly touched on the naming of names.

[Kullat Nunu]

2003 UB313 shrinked fast, because it was studied so soon after its discovery. At the time of the discovery announcement, Mike Brown said that the object must be in any case be larger than Pluto. The truth turned out to be that 2003 UB313 is very near to the lower limit thanks to its extremely reflective surface, which strongly suggests a frozen atmosphere.

[Sp1ke]

Hey, it's a dwarf planet. Obviously it's "Gimli"

[Bynaus]

I would like Persephone, or Proserpina, the roman analog. I don't think that it will be a problem that we already have an asteroid with that name: there is an asteroid called Ganymede (largest earth crossing asteroid, ~40 km diameter), and another one called Io, and another one called Europa. So, I don't think it will be a problem.

The same applies for Ymir, which I always thought was a cool name, sad that this great name has been given to a mere chunk of rock orbiting Saturn. But just as with Ganymede, maybe the name could be given to 2003UB313 again.

As long as it isn't "Xena", I'll agree to anything.

[mantiss]

IAs long as it isn't "Xena", I'll agree to anything.

Don't go there, I am sure some nutcase will suggest something like Britney sooner or later.

But I agree, Xena is about the worst choice possible, Britney seems mild by comparison.

Maybe it should be called Rupert

[antoniseb]

But I agree, Xena is about the worst choice possible, Britney seems mild by comparison.

'Ymir' sounds like a good choice. I'm not in favor of 'Xena' but it is certainly not the worst posible choice. Choices worse than Xena would be naming it after any of the genocidal leaders of the Twentieth Century. It would also be worse to name it after any substance that comes out of the human body, or any disease that causes a change in how much of a subtance comes out of the body (excpet maybe "Cold", that might be a good name). It would also be bad to give it a really long cute name like "Strawberry Shortcake" or "Pink Fuzzy Bunny". When you look at all the possibilities, I think Xena is in the top half of the class.

[Bynaus]

When you look at all the possibilities, I think Xena is in the top half of the class.

Well, agreed, but I'd say, within the names that are seriously taken into account, it ranges within the last ranks. Lets contact the IAU and suggest "Ymir"

Which reminds me: Why don't they make that descision public? A website, where you could get an ID and then vote with it, whoever you are, wherever you're from. Maybe a several-weeks process, with 50% of candidate names removed every week, so you could get your ID and vote again, until a descision is reached. Fill the website with several links to science education sites, and everyone would benefit.

[Mr. Milton Banana]

Meh. I'll always know it as Xena.

So, I'm a fanboy. Sue me.