Not really.Originally Posted by Jon Gold
Order of Kilopi
Not really.
Order of Kilopi
What are you talking about? You are very clearly allowed to question your government.
Order of Kilopi
Once again, you might want to review the rules.
Member
Then what is their purpose if not to "to fight the tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy dorks who believe that 9/11 was caused by Jews/the government/neocons/flying saucers/bildebergers or bigfoot."?
Order of Kilopi
Who's purpose?
Member
He must be a friend of yours. Suit yourself.
Member
The "Debunkers". Do try and keep up.
Order of Kilopi
I didn't see any Sky King over there, just a bunch of you. If that is what you consider winning a debate... well, suit yourself.
Order of Kilopi
Whatever the debunkers do has not prevented you from questioning the government. Please, lose the attitude.
Established Member
To weed out illegitimate, unfounded, and politcally-motivated criticism, perhaps?
Member
Obviously they don't think we should question our Government about the events of 9/11, which is why they attempt "to fight the tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy dorks who believe that 9/11 was caused by Jews/the government/neocons/flying saucers/bildebergers or bigfoot."
Order of Kilopi
Well, whatever "they" think, it does not stop you or anyone else from being able to question the government. Maybe you should frame your questions more precisely.
Established Member
How many times are you going to repeat this? I don't quite see how it bolsters your case at all.
Member
When's the last time you heard a member of our Government take a question about 9/11 from the citizens of the United States? I can tell you the last time I heard it.
Order of Kilopi
Edited to add: At least it doesn't stop you from doing so in America. However in places like China, North Korea and Iran, questioning the government is probably not a good idea.
Member
Ok. Why didn't George W. Bush, and Dick Cheney testify under oath, in public, and not without each other to the 9/11 Commission?
Order of Kilopi
A bit of a non-sequitur, no?
Member
That is what happened. Is it not?
Order of Kilopi
What does one have to do with the other?
Established Member
What relevence does it have on the truthiness of your claim? What do you believe it "proves"?
Edit: I have to wonder why you would even ask, though, since you no doubt believe the whole thing was a sham, anyway. Their testifying alone would have been proof of conspiracy, too, I'm sure.
Established Member
Thanks for posting that thread from 911Blogger.com, Jon. I stand by my comments. I note that you still have not demonstrated that "9/11 was an inside job" nor refuted the evidence presented to you.
Spend some time here and learn how rational people and experts in various pertinent fields think about 9/11.
Member
Well, the fact that they refused to testify in public, under oath, not without each other, and no recordings allowed, means that they OBVIOUSLY have something to hide.
My words...
What Is The President And The Vice President's Word Worth?
By Jon Gold
6/24/2006
I was watching Alex Jones' new movie, "The Terror Storm", and Alex had driven to "Camp Casey" in Crawford Texas. At "Camp Casey", he managed to get an interview with ex-CIA Analyst of 27 years, Ray McGovern.
Mr. McGovern made a very profound statement.
"For people to dismiss these questioners as "conspiratorial advocates", or "conspiratorial theorists"... that's completely out of line because the... The questions remain because the President who should be able to answer them, WILL NOT."
During the 9/11 Commission, a commission which the President and the Vice President fought "tooth and nail" against, they eventually agreed to meet with the members of the Commission.
However, "they were not under oath and there was to be no recording made of the session nor a stenographer in the room."
Simply stated, the "9/11 Truth Movement", which is comprised of individuals like Dr. Robert Bowman, former head of the "Star Wars Program", Professor Steven E. Jones, Physics Professor at BYU, Dr. Morgan Reynolds, Former Chief Economist for the U.S. Department of Labor from this Bush Administration, Paul Craig Roberts, Assistant Sect. of Treasury under Pres. Reagan, and the "Father of Reaganomics", Michael Meacher, Former UK Minister of Environment, Catherine Austin Fitts, ***. Sect. of Housing For President Bush I, Rep. Cynthia McKinney, Rep. Ron Paul, and so on... has, AT THE VERY LEAST proven that we have been lied to about 9/11, and that it appears our Government was complicit in the attacks.
One of the things we have learned during this administration's reign is that whatever they say, the opposite is usually the truth. "We abide by the law of the United States, that we do not torture." "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."
Why then do 48% of Americans believe what they say about 9/11? Why should we believe the word of President Bush and Vice President Cheney when it has been proven time and time again that they can't be trusted?
In other words, their word means nothing. Whatever they said to the 9/11 Commission can NOT be trusted.
They are the ones that say, "9/11 drives U.S. policy". They are the ones who have used 9/11 more than ANYONE else. They are the ones who have benefitted from it the most.
It is time for America to start asking them for answers.
Under oath, in public, and WITHOUT each other.
Order of Kilopi
Ok, so I am ready for your proof that 9/11 was carried out by the government, is that forthcoming?
Member
Sure... here you go.
My 911Blogger.com Blogs
Pakistan And 9/11
NORAD's Response On 9/11
Sibel Edmonds
The Environmental Impact Of 9/11
The Project For The New American Century
Professor Steven E. Jones
Egos
Dr. David Ray Griffin
Order of Kilopi
Is there anything in there that can be classified as a real argument, or is it all conjecture?
Established Member
Jon, don't hide behind meaningless "questions" that are nothing but innuendo. Answer them instead. You always avoid answering questions. Step up to the plate and prove your contention that "9/11 was an inside job."
We want to see your evidence laid out in front of us. Good luck.
Newbie
Sure! Let's start with Building 7.Hmm... Can you refute the picture and snippets of interviews I posted?
In the PBS documentary "America Rebuilds" Larry Silverstein admits they "pulled" WTC Building 7. As you may know, Building 7 was never hit by a plane, and was the 3rd modern steel-framed building in the history of the world to collapse to the ground via fire. It fell at near free-fall speed (as did the Twin Towers). Watch. Kooks like PM claim Silverstein meant to pull the firefighters, even though none were in the building. Later in "American Rebuilds" the demolition crew use the term "pull" again when they demolish Building 6. Watch. "Pull it" is clearly a demolition industry term for triggering carefully pre-planted explosives to bring down a building, like "cut" is movie slang for stopping the camera from rolling after a take.
Another shot of 7 being demolished via controlled demolition.
No doubt the current building codes and structural engineering mathematics and formulas required to safely construct a steel skyscraper without worry of if falling from mere fire.Begging the question. What are the "security parameters for skyscrapers"?
The Windsor Building in Madrid, Spain was subject to raging infernos for over 24 hours. The Twin Towers were subject to mediocre oxygen-starved fires (as evidenced by the thick black smoke plumes and reported in the NIST report) for 1 hour (south tower) and less than 2 hours (north tower), reaching temperatures which would not significantly even weaken steel, much less melt it.Perhaps you can point out the differences between the Madrid Windsor and the WTC...
Underwriters Laboratories Executive Speaks Out on WTC Study
Debunking Popular Mechanics Lies
Also see new article: 118 Witnesses: The Firefighter's Testimony to Explosions in the Twin towers.
Regarding molten metal pools months after 9/11:
This is well documented fact, not "second-hand" knowledge.How do you know this is true? The only person who can be confirmed to have made this claim (and nowhere did it saying anything about "all three buildings" - you'll have to support that claim) said they heard it from someone else. So... the claim is already second-hand. Bad start.
Molten Metal found at the WTC months after 9/11
Scientific Analysis Proves Towers Brought Down By Incendiaries
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. BYU's Professor Steven E. Jones is a physicist and archaeometrist.Prof. Jones is a physicist, not a materials or chemical analyst. Neither are any of the other "scholars" in his club.
Read his paper: Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?
Scholars for 9/11 Truth is a non-partisan association of faculty, students, and scholars, in fields as diverse as history, science, military affairs, psychology, and philosophy, dedicated to exposing falsehoods and to revealing truths behind 9/11. Member info.
Sister site: Journal of 9/11 Studies
Regarding PNAC:
I doubt you have. The document is here. See section V (pg 51).Do you even know what the "transition" they talk about actually is? Have you read that entire section in context? I doubt it...
"....the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor."
Google "pnac pearl harbor" for a wealth of information on the subject.
Anything else Cl1mh4224rd?
Last edited by AdamT; 2006-Aug-27 at 06:38 PM.
Order of Kilopi
So, most of those links just go to longer lists of other links. Maybe you could actually do some work and present a cogent argument as to why all of that stuff is related and how it proves that the US government carried out the events of 9/11.
Established Member
Speculation is pretty worthless and hardly "obvious". You'd do well to read the pre-existing threads here about 9/11. I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, of the points present on your websites have been discussed here.
You insist that we read everything you throw at us. You're welcome to do the same with everything that's available here.
Member
Do the research. Don't listen to me.
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