question on Einstien

[Grand_Lunar]

An individual posed a hypothetical situation. Somehow, it seems to have bad science in it:

Suppose Albert Einstein actally solved the Grand Unified Theory, and linked time, space, gravity and quantum mechanics in one equation. Suppose he did it in the last ten years of his life. What would he do with the information?

He had seen his theory of relativity applied at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Grand Unified Theory could have produced an even bigger bomb, one that could destroy the entire planet.

Now, last I knew, it was the mass/energy relationship, E=MC^2, that was used in the atomic bomb, not the Grand Unified Theory.

Did Einstien even work on the Grand Unifed Theory at the time he derived E=MC^2?
And would such work possibly result in a more powerful weapon, as this individual says?

Thanks....

[hhEb09'1]

Did Einstien even work on the Grand Unifed Theory at the time he derived E=MC^2?
And would such work possibly result in a more powerful weapon, as this individual says?

It sounds like they are implying that Einstein may have solved the problem, and then decided to not reveal the answer, because he did not want to unleash the new generation of destructive weapons. Pure fantasy.

[grant hutchison]

As I recall Einstein did devote a lot of his later life to trying to build a unified theory. This would make a suitable McGuffin for a Dan Brown novel. (We must all pray he never hears of it.)

But without knowing what the real GUT will turn out to be, I'm not sure we can rule out on scientific grounds the possibility that the GUT would provide the underpinnings for a seriously bad bomb that could be built with cold-war technology: maybe by providing an accessible way to liberate all the energy from some given mass, or tapping into vacuum energy in some way.

Grant Hutchison

[hhEb09'1]

Yes, he spent a good deal of time on it, but I meant it was a fantasy that he'd actually solved it, and then decided not to reveal it.

[Metricyard]

One big problem Einstein faced with his GUT was his total disregard for Quantum mechanics. As far as I know, he pretty much ignored quantum physics. If he hadn't iqnored QM, he may just have found his lifelong dream.

[hhEb09'1]

One big problem Einstein faced with his GUT was his total disregard for Quantum mechanics. As far as I know, he pretty much ignored quantum physics. If he hadn't iqnored QM, he may just have found his lifelong dream.

Disregard? I don't think he ever disregarded it. His objection seems to be to the Copenhagen interpretation, and that objection is still alive and kicking. (I'm not taking sides here )

[HenrikOlsen]

To get a better grip on where E=MC² comes from and to get a reasonable idea of relativity, try to find Feynman's Six not-so-easy pieces.

[Grand_Lunar]

When did Einstien do his work on GUT? Before or after he derived E=MC^2?

And could GUT even be applied to weapon making?

[Metricyard]

Disregard? I don't think he ever disregarded it. His objection seems to be to the Copenhagen interpretation, and that objection is still alive and kicking. (I'm not taking sides here )

Alright, disregard is a bit overkill. But what would have happened if he did embrace the Copenhagen interpretation. Would it have made a difference?

It would be cool to see the last works of Einsteins and see what happens if you tried to incorporate QM into it. Of course, I wouldn't have a clue where to start

[hhEb09'1]

When did Einstien do his work on GUT? Before or after he derived E=MC^2?

Probably, in a sense, all along, but directly only much later. E=mc² was part of the development of special relativity, and his general theory came ten years later--and spent the last years of his life attempting a unification.

And could GUT even be applied to weapon making?

We don't know! No one has one.

[grant hutchison]

When did Einstien do his work on GUT? Before or after he derived E=MC^2?

After.

And could GUT even be applied to weapon making?

How can we know, without knowing what the "real" GUT is? Any theory that makes you understand more about the fundamental construction of the Universe is going to let you understand more about BIG energy. Whether such a theory would make that big energy somehow accessible with cold-war (or current) tech seems to me to be anyone's guess.

Grant Hutchison

[antoniseb]

There was a Phyisics professor where I went to school named Roland Lichtenstein. He was clever, charming, and brilliant. Rumour had it (and I never verified this) that he never published, but kept all his work in a filing cabinet because some of his early work was used for the Manhattan project. Colorful story? Could be true.

None-the-less it is pretty doubtful that Einstein worked out the GUT.

Concerning Grand_Lunar's opening post here, he seems to have misread it. The thing he's quoting does not say that the GUT was used for the A-Bomb, but rather speculated that it might allow something much more destructive to be built.

[Metricyard]

.
Concerning Grand_Lunar's opening post here, he seems to have misread it. The thing he's quoting does not say that the GUT was used for the A-Bomb, but rather speculated that it might allow something much more destructive to be built.

I bet the clever people here could think of some GUT bombs/weapons.

How about a black hole bomb? Imaging having a small black hole forming in the center of a large city. What a site that would be. I think Ill make one.

[hhEb09'1]

It would be cool to see the last works of Einsteins and see what happens if you tried to incorporate QM into it.

That's pretty much what he was trying to do, I think.

[publius]

As I understand it, Einstein was working on unifying gravity and EM in the latter years. This is sometimes called Einstein Unified Field Theory, or UFT for short. He wasn't including the nuclear forces, and so this wouldn't be a unified theory in the sense it is used today as unifying all the 4 forces.

I'm just speaking from my own vague intrepretations of what I've read about this, so don't put too much stock in the following:

He was following a geometric approach, and trying to come up with some even more complex geometry to unify EM and gravity into one thing, and I've heard this geometry describes as being to the Riemannian geometry of General Relativiy as Riemann is to Euclid. It was very complex. I believe he was adding more dimensions and having more ways that space-time could "curve" and "twist" and all that stuff.

I don't understand it enough to know how, but this UFT didn't work out, and was considered a failed effort. The geometric approach wouldn't square with quantum theory anyway it is said.

There are conspiracy theories about Einstein's UFT, however, and rather than Einstein himself keeping it a secret, it is the government that covered it up, and is using it secretly. That is Einstein suceeded in completing the coupling between gravity and EM, allowing "artificial gravity" to be produced by electromagnetic means.

In this strain of conspiracy, the UFOs are not so much alien craft, but our own secret gravity-drive craft using UFT.

And, ever since UFT, there have been various fringe/kook physics claims of some coupling between EM and gravity. Gabriel Kron was one, an EE who came up with some rather complex tensor-based framework for synchronous machines (ie big AC generators and motors). He claimed this framework had a gravitational component somehow, and there were very weak gravitational effects going on in synchronous machines. I'm an electrical nut, and so this caught my attention, but I don't understand Kron's math enough to make any judgements myself, but it is considered nonsense.

And the last I remember was Art Bell used to have this character from Long Island, who claimed to have a large commercial lab setup, and who claimed he could slow time down in a region by using EM -- that is, he was achieving gravitational time dilation by EM fields. Art had him on several times, but he stopped answering the phone and sort of dissappeared, fueling the conspiracy talk.

He description of the apparatus was vague, "big electric and magnetic fields", then modulating some high-frequency RF or microwave fields on top of that, and finally firing lasers in the mix. He claimed he could slow or speed up time by a factor of 2 or 3 or so in some region established by all the above fields.

He claimed he did all sorts of experiments with different "clocks" in the region, showing the time dilation was real, seeds grew slower or faster, digital and mechanical watches ticked faster or slower, etc. And he even mentioned he had to shield the region because of doppler shift. When time was running slower, ambient light would be blue shifted into the UV and damage his samples. I figured your typical woo-woo wouldn't have thought about that.

And of course, no independent verification of his apparatus or anything, just talk, and apparently no trace of who he was really was.

-Richard

[hhEb09'1]

Art had him on several times, but he stopped answering the phone and sort of dissappeared, fueling the conspiracy talk.

How cool would that be on your answering machine: "Hello, this is Art Bell. Where are you? Pick up!"

[TheBlackCat]

There was a Phyisics professor where I went to school named Roland Lichtenstein. He was clever, charming, and brilliant. Rumour had it (and I never verified this) that he never published, but kept all his work in a filing cabinet because some of his early work was used for the Manhattan project. Colorful story? Could be true.

If you don't publish you can't get funding, which means you can't do more research, which means all he would be doing is teaching which most univerisities do not like very much.

[hhEb09'1]

If you don't publish you can't get funding, which means you can't do more research, which means all he would be doing is teaching which most univerisities do not like very much.

unless...you were working for the gubmint, as he was

[TheBlackCat]

unless...you were working for the gubmint, as he was

Wouldn't the government want his results?

[grant hutchison]

Wouldn't the government want his results?

That's the point: they're paying him not to publish, not to seek grants from publicly responsible bodies, but to instead pass on his information to them.
The university doesn't care where the money comes from, so long as it has a professor who produces the income at the end of the year.

Grant Hutchison

[hhEb09'1]

Wouldn't the government want his results?

sure, why wouldn't they have them?

[TheBlackCat]

sure, why wouldn't they have them?

Geez I'm an idiot. I thought you meant he was upset about his data being used to build the atomic bomb so he stopped releasing it. Sorry, my bad.

[papageno]

This reminds me of Duerrenmatt's The Physicists.

[Sam5]

This reminds me of Duerrenmatt's The Physicists.

What is this play about?

[papageno]

What is this play about?

*** SPOILERS *** (as far as I remember)

A famous physicist, Moebius, discovered the ultimate unified theory. Terrified by its potential consequences for warfare, he destroys his notes and fakes being mentally ill.

The action is set in the mental health institute where Moebius has been living for years, and starts with the investigations of the murder of a nurse.

[fast forward over spies and more murders]

It turns out that Moebius kept working on his theory in the mental health institute, but his work has fallen into the hands of the head of the institute, who is really an insane megalomaniac and is ready to take over the world.

*** SPOILERS ***