Major breakthrough in fusion research announced

[Halcyon Dayz]

Just for your information, that what you call the EC is actually called
the EU as of 1992.

My political comment I'll keep for myself.

[galacsi]

One thing about windmills :

They actually work and produce some power ,at some cost yes . But they are are rather cheap. No governement , except may be the Danish one has spend any money to develop them. (although some subventions have been spent to build and operate them. )

One thing about fusion reactors :

No one know when the first one will eventually produce some commercially usefull power. And who know (Not me ) how many billions of dollars (Euros) governements have spent with these overgrown electric toys.

I loose all my faith in big science , ITER is a scam and as you say in america : pork.

[antoniseb]

One thing about windmills: They actually work and produce some power

ITER is a scam and as you say in america : pork.

I agree that windmills are good, and we should build lots more of them. I don't completely agree that ITER is pork. I think that with this new advance, ITER stands a good chance of being able to add more power into the system than it consumes AND be able to give guidance for building the first commercial fusion reactors about 20 years from now. It is an expensive but necessary step (IMO). I do not believe that fusion will be cheap power anytime soon.

[galacsi]

I agree that windmills are good, and we should build lots more of them. I don't completely agree that ITER is pork. I think that with this new advance, ITER stands a good chance of being able to add more power into the system than it consumes AND be able to give guidance for building the first commercial fusion reactors about 20 years from now. It is an expensive but necessary step (IMO). I do not believe that fusion will be cheap power anytime soon.

Ok , i respect your opinion , anyway several track must be explored concurrently. I just regret big science take all the cake and in a rather totalitarian way because may be fusion energy can be attained with something else than Tokamak.

[boppa]

Ok , i respect your opinion , anyway several track must be explored concurrently. I just regret big science take all the cake and in a rather totalitarian way because may be fusion energy can be attained with something else than Tokamak.

ifaik

thats the way good science has always worked

the people that can show results get the money
the ones that show big results get the big money
the ones that show no results get no money
(altho in the case of hot fusion its now well and truely out of the pure science arena and into the engineering one now)
ie we know it works -all we have to do is `iron out' the bugs and make it better

ie imho good science
as opposed to that other cold fusion business
there is the possibility of something happening-but the evidence is against it
the likelyhood of several billion dollars being thrown at it-none at the moment
`good' science versus `bad' science
results versus non results

[galacsi]

ifaik

thats the way good science has always worked

the people that can show results get the money
the ones that show big results get the big money
the ones that show no results get no money
(altho in the case of hot fusion its now well and truely out of the pure science arena and into the engineering one now)
ie we know it works -all we have to do is `iron out' the bugs and make it better

ie imho good science
as opposed to that other cold fusion business
there is the possibility of something happening-but the evidence is against it
the likelyhood of several billion dollars being thrown at it-none at the moment
`good' science versus `bad' science
results versus non results

All this is very idealistic , may be we are not living on the same planet !

alas politics and greed are more powerfull than logic .

You speak of cold fusion : interesting , but it was not what i was thinking about . In the mainstream there are other methods to attain fusion . for instance have you ever heard of focus fusion ? striction machine , electrostatic confinement ?

[HenrikOlsen]

We've heard about them, currently their development are still at the science stage without a clear roadmap to a working reactor.
As boppa said tokamak fusion is at the engineering stage now, this is where the really big money are spent because the people who spent their money are interested in seeing results in the forseeable future.

BTW, we're getting awfully close to political arguments again.

[antoniseb]

I just regret big science take all the cake and in a rather totalitarian way because may be fusion energy can be attained with something else than Tokamak.

I also regret that such a large fraction of the money goes to a few big projects that have no chance of being built as local or private projects. I'm unaware of things other than Tokamaks for making decent fusion power.

[galacsi]

We've heard about them, currently their development are still at the science stage without a clear roadmap to a working reactor.
As boppa said tokamak fusion is at the engineering stage now, this is where the really big money are spent because the people who spent their money are interested in seeing results in the forseeable future.

BTW, we're getting awfully close to political arguments again.

You are right it is political . Well , we human beings are political animals.

[Argos]

"One step closer to controlling nuclear fusion"

Scientists have achieved a milestone: they have managed to stop the growth of instabilities inside a nuclear fusion reactor.

Physorg.com

[Glom]

"One step closer to controlling nuclear fusion"



Physorg.com

Hopefully. It is so frustrating how difficult it has been to make progress. Fusion is always 50 years away.

[Strange]

Maybe it is 49 years away now.

[Jeff Root]

Huh?? I always understood it to be 40 years away. Maybe that's
why everyone else seemed less optimistic about it than me.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[whimsyfree]

Any thoughts on Focus Fusion? I have trouble having confidence in a business that claims to be on the verge of developing a technology which will revolutionize power generation (and so the world economy) yet has to solicit Paypal donations.

[Selfsim]

Any thoughts on Focus Fusion? I have trouble having confidence in a business that claims to be on the verge of developing a technology which will revolutionize power generation (and so the world economy) yet has to solicit Paypal donations.

'Focus Fusion' is an experimental research organisation, originally set up by Eric Lerner' (of Plasma Cosmology fame). Lerner was the author of "The Big Bang Never Happened". It seems, (to me), that Lerner's research focus is undecided between furthering his theories about Plasma Cosmology, and future power research.

His 'Dense Plasma Focus' (DPF) technology has been engineered to produce various 'plasmoid structures' resembling deep space objects such as AGN/quasars. Much of the research and development of the technology has its roots in Plasma Cosmology 'theory', and from the Focus Fusion website, it seems that securing funding has always been a problem for them.

One has to wonder whether funding sources might also be aware of the roots of the origins/basis of the research (?)

Regards

[whimsyfree]

'Focus Fusion' is an experimental research organisation, originally set up by Eric Lerner' (of Plasma Cosmology fame). Lerner was the author of "The Big Bang Never Happened". It seems, (to me), that Lerner's research focus is undecided between furthering his theories about Plasma Cosmology, and future power research.

His 'Dense Plasma Focus' (DPF) technology has been engineered to produce various 'plasmoid structures' resembling deep space objects such as AGN/quasars. Much of the research and development of the technology has its roots in Plasma Cosmology 'theory', and from the Focus Fusion website, it seems that securing funding has always been a problem for them.

One has to wonder whether funding sources might also be aware of the roots of the origins/basis of the research (?)

Regards

Thanks for that information. A little googling found that he also thinks the establishment is suppressing his research to protect the oil and gas lobby. Intrade rates Focus Fusion's chance of success at about 8%. I think that's too high.

[Selfsim]

Thanks for that information. A little googling found that he also thinks the establishment is suppressing his research to protect the oil and gas lobby. Intrade rates Focus Fusion's chance of success at about 8%. I think that's too high.

Hi whimsyfree;
No worries … I notice also, that the article is dated 2002 .. (10 years old).
The conspiracy chant is a familiar one, eh ?

IMHO, I think Lerner's story exemplifies the importance of basing engineering research on sound scientific principles. If it isn't, it will always be difficult to attract developmental funding.

Regards