UFO's might be animals -- and draft animals at that.

[Relmuis]

Today I found a curious website, which I would like to share with you.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/vprop/

Strangely, I have long suspected that UFO's might be animals. But I was thinking of floaters, living in Earth's stratosphere. And recently I concluded that floaters are unlikely to exist on Earth, because there are only a few gases lighter than air, and these are either corrosive, or flammable, or unlikely to be biologically produced. (The most plausible gas would be NH₃.)

The website suggests space-living animals, however. Which seems curiously plausible.

[Archer17]

IIRC it was either Clarke or Asimov that wrote about hypothetical "gas bags" that lived in the atmosphere of one of the Jovian planets (it was a scifi novel, forget the name) and I remember thinking that was a stretch.

I prefer the Occam's Razor approach to UFOs and think they are just transient things Joe Six-Pack can't ID but maybe Tommy Twelve-Pack could if it hung around long enough. Hmm .. it seems these "rods" have made me thirsty.

[Relmuis]

Floaters on Jupiter (whose atmosphere is mostly hydrogen) would be even more of a stretch than floaters on Earth. Venus would be a better place for floaters; on Venus oxygen would keep them floating, and at 50 kilometers altitude both pressure and temperature are Earthlike.

[R.A.F.]

IIRC it was either Clarke or Asimov that wrote about hypothetical "gas bags" that lived in the atmosphere of one of the Jovian planets (it was a scifi novel, forget the name)

Sounds like you're talking about Clarke's book Meeting with Medusa.

[Gemini]

No, it was 2010,but it could be that too.

[SAMU]

It was "Meeting With Medusa". A future airship captain who was mangled in the crash of his airship is placed in an "airship" designed to fly in Jupiter's apnosphere. He sees all kinds of floaters, batrays, sharks and "medusa" described like a giant jellyfish.

Clarke's long time hobby of scuba is where he got the descriptions.

[Arneb]

May I remark that John Walker himself, on his excellent website, lists this article under "science fiction"? I wouldn't discuss to earnestly a proposal which takes certain "extreme speculations" as the point of departure for another round of speculative deductions.

Nothing worse than taking playful intellectual high-wire dancing as dead-serious assertions (on of the many flaws of UFO believers).

[suntrack2]

Relmuis, the same doubt was in my mind but I could not draw that doubt through my mind.

sunil

[suntrack2]

and suppose if they are animals, then they may be not speaking ! (that UFOs)

sunil

[Daffy]

I prefer the Occam's Razor approach to UFOs and think they are just transient things Joe Six-Pack can't ID but maybe Tommy Twelve-Pack could if it hung around long enough. Hmm .. it seems these "rods" have made me thirsty.

That's a trifle arrogant, maybe? I saw a UFO once; I am a pretty well educated, professional person, and I have never been able to identify it (hence the name).

And you know what? I'll bet money you couldn't have, either. So maybe we aren't as far removed from "joe six pack" as we like to believe around here?

[Archer17]

I prefer the Occam's Razor approach to UFOs and think they are just transient things Joe Six-Pack can't ID but maybe Tommy Twelve-Pack could if it hung around long enough. Hmm .. it seems these "rods" have made me thirsty.

That's a trifle arrogant, maybe? I saw a UFO once; I am a pretty well educated, professional person, and I have never been able to identify it (hence the name).

And you know what? I'll bet money you couldn't have, either. So maybe we aren't as far removed from "joe six pack" as we like to believe around here?

You're quacking up the wrong tree here Daffy. How do you know that I couldn't ID it? Just because you couldn't? Talk about arrogance. And what's your education and being "professional" have to do with anything? My "Joe Six-pack" anology applies to anyone that couldn't ID a UFO for whatever reason while someone else could.. in fact one of mine would have remained unidentified (by me) if I didn't have binoculars handy.

[Daffy]

You're quacking up the wrong tree here Daffy. How do you know that I couldn't ID it? Just because you couldn't? Talk about arrogance. And what's your education and being "professional" have to do with anything? My "Joe Six-pack" anology applies to anyone that couldn't ID a UFO for whatever reason while someone else could.. in fact one of mine would have remained unidentified (by me) if I didn't have binoculars handy.

Please don't get the idea that I am angry here! I am merely trying to make a point. You are making the assumption that you could identify something--- where someone else could not---with zero data to back up that opinion; I am suggesting that is hardly an example of the scientific method at work.

The "joe six pack" comment was not an analogy; it was merely a term to denegrate anyone who could not identify something in the sky. Or am I wrong about that?

Btw, I don't have any evidence of extraterrestrial origin for what I saw. Even less than that for LGMs. Just that I saw something that you and I cannot identify; in your case it would be for no other reason than you were not there.

[The Incredible Bloke]

Even professionals like astronomers, pilots have been unable to identify common objects/things in the sky sometimes

[Archer17]

Please don't get the idea that I am angry here! I am merely trying to make a point. You are making the assumption that you could identify something--- where someone else could not---with zero data to back up that opinion; I am suggesting that is hardly an example of the scientific method at work.

Spare me the "scientific" lecture Daffy. UFOs are nothing more than aerial objects that are unidentified to the particular observer(s). To imply that any particular UFO is unidentifiable to everyone who sees it would require evidence you couldn't possibily provide.

The "joe six pack" comment was not an analogy; it was merely a term to denegrate anyone who could not identify something in the sky. Or am I wrong about that?

You're wrong. Being "educated" and all I would have thought you knew what "Joe Six-Pack" meant.

Btw, I don't have any evidence of extraterrestrial origin for what I saw. Even less than that for LGMs. Just that I saw something that you and I cannot identify; in your case it would be for no other reason than you were not there.

You'd be willing to bet money that I couldn't ID something because I wasn't there?!?

[Daffy]

Even professionals like astronomers, pilots have been unable to identify common objects/things in the sky sometimes

Exactly my point...although said much more succinctly!

[Archer17]

Even professionals like astronomers, pilots have been unable to identify common objects/things in the sky sometimes.

Exactly my point...although said much more succinctly!

Won't wash Daffy. You said I was arrogant because I said a UFO was something "Joe Six-pack" (Person "A") couldn't identify but "Tommy Twelve-pack" (Person "B" with expertise and/or superior observational equipment, etc) could identify if it hung around long enough. My UFO is an example. So's Jimmy Carter's. No, what the Bloke wrote wasn't your point at all.

[Daffy]

Won't wash Daffy. You said I was arrogant because I said a UFO was something "Joe Six-pack" (Person "A") couldn't identify but "Tommy Twelve-pack" (Person "B" with expertise and/or superior observational equipment, etc) could identify if it hung around long enough. My UFO is an example. So's Jimmy Carter's. No, what the Bloke wrote wasn't your point at all.

Lighten up. Arrogance is immediately classifying someone who cannot identify something in the sky as "joe six pack." The assumption that somehow from your heights you can identify anything.

To make such a sweeping statement is absurd at best and says far more about the person making it, and nothing at all about "joe six pack" and whatever he may or may not have seen.

[Archer17]

Lighten up. Arrogance is immediately classifying someone who cannot identify something in the sky as "joe six pack." The assumption that somehow from your heights you can identify anything.

You're the one jumping up and down here trying to make something out of a synonym for " Joe Anybody." If a UFO is mundane it stands to reason that someone who sees it will recognize it for what it is. What about that is so hard to understand?

To make such a sweeping statement is absurd at best and says far more about the person making it, and nothing at all about "joe six pack" and whatever he may or may not have seen.

I think the reason you're trying to make this personal and picked my old post out of the mix is because I gave you grief in those Mars threads a while back. Grow up and get over it.

[darkhunter]

But Daffy just called it a UFO--something in the air that was unidentified. It was not automaticcaly assumed to be a flying saucer fill with LGMs--there is a difference.

It you say that it has aliens in it, it is NOT a UFO--it HAS been identified as a flying saucer/alien mothership/whatever.

[Archer17]

But Daffy just called it a UFO--something in the air that was unidentified. It was not automaticcaly assumed to be a flying saucer fill with LGMs--there is a difference.

It you say that it has aliens in it, it is NOT a UFO--it HAS been identified as a flying saucer/alien mothership/whatever.

I know. Doesn't really change anything that was posted though. I believe that any particular UFO could be identified if it hangs around long enough or is seen by someone that has a better viewing aspect, observation equipment, or knowledge of whatever the object was. Examples would be aircraft landing lights, my balloons, and the NOSS Triads (naval formation satellites). All this talk about my alleged meaning of "Joe Six-Pack" is just bad blood from past interactions.

[Relmuis]

Somewhere in the nineteen seventies, a florist in the town where I live saw a flight (or perhaps I should say flock) of UFOs flying overhead at what appeared to be a height of only a few hundred meters. It happened around noon, and the UFOs were described by him as metallic gray in colour and perfectly circular in shape, flying over at an incredible speed. (Like diving fighter planes.)

I found this rather frustrating, because at that time I lived less than two blocks from this florist's shop, where he had seen the UFOs, and I had seen or heard nothing unusual. The first I knew of this was when I read about it in our local newspaper.

[Wolverine]

Daffy & Archer17: There's no need to get personal here. Please tone it down and stay on topic.

[Daffy]

Daffy & Archer17: There's no need to get personal here. Please tone it down and stay on topic.

OK.

I simply reject the notion that all things are known (that was a popular notion in the late 19th century). For someone to claim that they could identify something---with no data whatsoever to back that up---is, to me, absurd. It certainly has no basis in science.

And again, I have no evidence that what I personally saw was extraterrestrial and am not for a moment making that claim.

[Ara Pacis]

Wait, I'm confused. Is UFO an acronym for Unidentified Flying Object or Unidentifyable Flying Object?

[Archer17]

OK.

I simply reject the notion that all things are known (that was a popular notion in the late 19th century). For someone to claim that they could identify something---with no data whatsoever to back that up---is, to me, absurd. It certainly has no basis in science.

And again, I have no evidence that what I personally saw was extraterrestrial and am not for a moment making that claim.

Ditto for someone to imply someone else couldn't identify something just because you couldn't and tell me what I "really" mean with an innocuous term like "Joe Six-Pack."

[Archer17]

Daffy & Archer17: There's no need to get personal here. Please tone it down and stay on topic.

Read my PM

[Halcyon Dayz]

Wait, I'm confused. Is UFO an acronym for Unidentified Flying Object or Unidentifyable Flying Object?

Wiki says:

A UFO or Unidentified Flying Object is any object or optical phenomenon observed in the sky which cannot be identified, even after being thoroughly investigated by qualified people.

(The BA gets mentioned on that page. )

Which means that the flashing light in the sky, that you presumed
was an aeroplane, does not qualify as an UFO.

[Daffy]

Ditto for someone to imply someone else couldn't identify something just because you couldn't and tell me what I "really" mean with an innocuous term like "Joe Six-Pack."

I didn't say or imply that; I said there are no data to be able to predict either way.

As far as "joe six pack," you have the floor. What did you mean by that?

[Archer17]

Ditto for someone to imply someone else couldn't identify something just because you couldn't.

I didn't say or imply that;..

Oh no?

And you know what? I'll bet money you couldn't have, either.

You didn't imply that? What's this about being "educated" and "professional" if you can't remember what you even post? Besides, you think I'm not? heh

I said there are no data to be able to predict either way.

Oh really? Guess I must of misquoted you, huh? Actually, you don't know if there is data to predict "either way" Daffy. To presume otherwise makes you guilty of the same arrogance you accuse me of.

as far as "joe six pack," you have the floor. What did you mean by that?

Joe Six-pack means the "common" person .. I'm Joe Six-pack, so's my next-door neighbor. So's the beat cop working on Grant St. So are you.

BTW, Wolverine, I know your reading this and I said I'd walk away but I decided I'll go out blazing if that's what happens here .. it's more my style.

[Daffy]

Oh no?You didn't imply that? What's this about being "educated" and "professional" if you can't remember what you even post? Besides, you think I'm not? heh Oh really? Guess I must of misquoted you, huh? Actually, you don't know if there is data to predict "either way" Daffy. To presume otherwise makes you guilty of the same arrogance you accuse me of.Joe Six-pack means the "common" person .. I'm Joe Six-pack, so's my next-door neighbor. So's the beat cop working on Grant St. So are you.

BTW, Wolverine, I know your reading this and I said I'd walk away but I decided I'll go out blazing if that's what happens here .. it's more my style.

Let's be fair...I didn't say no one could identify what I saw; I said I would bet money you couldn't.

I am entirely comfortable being called "Joe Six Pack." For you, make it "Mr. Joe Six Pack," though.