Order of Kilopi
Order of Kilopi
Thanks for the link.
I am still a bit wearry about this, they could be doing this just to keep from a war between Religion and Science, expecially after all of that ID stuff. Just have to wait and see...
Bad Post-Doc
What makes me kind of sad is that the two congregations they describe equal 106 people, which is about a third the size of the fundamentalist church some of my friends from grade school attended. I really think the many, many churches, synagogues, et al that have no problem with evolution and recognize that it doesn't have to conflict with faith need to get more vocal. The individual congregations seen one-on-one may not match in numbers, but the congregations will outbalance in the other direction.
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Gillian
"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
Established Member
I think they were pointing out that even small, out of the way, churches are endorsing Evolution - not just the big industrial churches - further showing the IDers as fringists and loonies.
DS - I don't worry too much about organized religion vs science. There's no war there (certainly not the way there was even 200 years ago). As science makes discoveries, religion must adapt to it. (ok, science does too, but that's internal,not forced on it from outside, if you follow my drift)
And, I don't think the organized religions would hold off from a 'war' with science if they thought they had a snowball's chance in Bahgdad of winning. but maybe I'm just being cynical.
Order of Kilopi
It gets awfully cold in the desert at night, when you think no one is paying attention to what you're doing. Kinda like these stealth maneuvers IDers keep trying to pull.Originally Posted by LurchGS
Established Member
that would imply that the IDers have the backing of the major religions - and (at least, as far as I know) they don't.
Or am I misunderstanding you? (wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood somebody else. I could have sworn my wifeoid said 'yes', lo these many years ago)
But, I do think that if organized religion - the big houses - thought they could win a war or battle with science, they'd take it on. (I suppose the IDers could be some 'department of dirty tricks' for the Pope or whoever leads the Baptists or something ... but I doubt it. They're more sophisticated than this)
(oh, lest anybody get irate, the selections of religious entities in the preceeding paragraph are for display purposes only. They are not intended as attacks in specific, nor are they intended for individual resale)
Order of Kilopi
Well, I read this situation thus. IDers as agents independent of organized religions are the ultimately deniable soldiers. They're perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause without any of the mainstream leadership getting bogged down when they get caught. Yet should they succeed, they'll be chanted up in the churches as "good Christians spreading the gospel" with the institutional amnesia erasing any of the denials and condemnation that might have previously been spouted when they got caught.
Religious leadership is like political leadership. Its a bad idea till it works, then it was your idea the whole time. And yes, that's raw, unrepentant, unabashed cynicism you're reading.
Established Member
Ok, we don't really disagree - at least, it doesn't sound as though you think the Pope (or whomever) is really behind it.Well, I read this situation thus. IDers as agents independent of organized religions are the ultimately deniable soldiers. They're perfectly willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause without any of the mainstream leadership getting bogged down when they get caught. Yet should they succeed, they'll be chanted up in the churches as "good Christians spreading the gospel" with the institutional amnesia erasing any of the denials and condemnation that might have previously been spouted when they got caught.
Religious leadership is like political leadership. Its a bad idea till it works, then it was your idea the whole time. And yes, that's raw, unrepentant, unabashed cynicism you're reading.
Yeah, if it were to succeed, then they'd certainly jump on the band wgon and proclaim it a good thing.
God, it feels so good to be a cynic!
said by a froth-at-the-mouth two-basin kitchen cynic!
Bad Post-Doc
I dunno. The Catholics certainly got their fingers burned on opposing science in the past. I think the current generation at the Vatican (and, yes, it took 'em long enough to come 'round) are big into "science is over there and we're over here and let's keep it that way." Could be true of other religions, too, but I'm not as well versed in 'em.
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Gillian
"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
Order of Kilopi
That's one way of saying it
1769: The city of Brescia, Italy is devastated when the Church of San Nazaro, near Venice, is struck by lightning. The resulting fire ignites 200,000 lb (90,000 kg) of gunpowder being stored there, causing a massive explosion which destroys one sixth of the city and kills 3,000 people. The disaster prompts the Roman Catholic Church to abandon their religious objection to using lightning rods to protect their property.
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Reductionist and proud of it.
Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. Benjamin Franklin
Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat tails. Clarence Darrow
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. Mark Twain
Order of Kilopi
Always wondered about that; who does lead the baptists? (and the Lutherans and Unitarians and Presbyterians and . . . )
Maybe they all just report directly to God. I like a nice flat org structure.
Order of Kilopi
I believe they have some overagency to which they report, I don't know exactly. In the end, the overbody is primarily advisory, imposing rules through stigma and peer pressure than any actual mandate. Its not like the Catholic structure at all. The Episcopal church is the only non-Catholic branch I'm aware of with a built in superstructure going back to the Archbishop of Canterbury. Even then, some progressive churches under the Episcopal flag throw the middle digit to the Church of England and march to their own tune.
Established Member
if it isn't about love, I don't know whot is or all blue boys look like a Knepper.
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