Thought experiment: How to survive the ultimate challanges

[Sporally]

OK, as i mentioned in another thread i was going to post an idea about what other benefits than funny time travels via wormholes we could get from the wormholes. First of i have to mention this thread might seem kinda silly to some of you ppl, if so you are of course welcome to reply or just leave the thread - whatever you pick. If it catches your interest i would be very happy if you would let me know. Secondly, this is not how i personally think wormholes work, but since some ppl believe this is how wormholes work i just want to point of that i also 'hope' (don't think) this is how it works. Here we go.

Astroids, comets, supernovas, passing stars, black holes, unknown threat - the list of how mankind can forever be extinkt because of the threats from outer space is long. These are all things we have to deal with, and those with the biggest possibility is what we should take a look at first, i.e. astroids/comets. But we also know when mankind will be extinkt. Unless one of the other threats occur before that we can't deal with we know, unless Einstein was right on this one aswell, that we will be extinkt of either The Big Crounch or The Big Rip. So what can we do about it? I believe, ok i haven't search Google dry for this subject, we haven't heard many ideas on what to do.

Let's assume it will all end in The Big Rip, and let's assume the following for wormholes (and this is here i disagree what will happen):
If i went back in time and killed Hitler in 1933 and then went back to 2006, what will happen then? Personally i think we will see a new 2006, e.g. a WW2 between the US and Sovjet - i.e. the computer game Red Alert. But if, and only if you would get back to the world you left, then we have solved one big problem that could (maybe) ensure our eternal survival. Miners using the wormholes. In this way we will have unlimited matter and energy which we will never, not even a trillion years in the future, run dry off. If this is the case and we also assume the our existence will end with The Big Rip we should have a way of controlling the universe. Unless there is not only a local gravity in all matter (which we know there is) but also a universal anti-gravity, this could be what we need if we were to survive. I'm not talking 6 billion or 10 billion humans, but several trillion ppl could probably do this. Today we have fusion and fission as the greatest energy sources, but sooner or later (i know we are talking later) we will run dry of this aswell. Probably The Big Rip event would have occured before us running dry of energy, but just in the theory.

On the other hand if the wormholes work as i believe they do, we could just jump into the future and collect all the matter and energy we want (if the humans and aliens accept this ). And after this we can go to the day before and grap even more energy and matter.

Who was the scientist that said there was only a limit amount of matter and energy in the whole universe, which couldn't be changed?

I know there are other ways of doing this - e.g. just going back in time to the beginning with all the humans and live for several billion years, but in case ppl don't want to go - who can predict what we want it the future.

I hope you get my point, but maybe you have better ideas. So post all your comments on what i wrote or tell me your better ideas. Maybe i have forgotten an even more simple way to solve the survival of The Big Rip. So just post

[Dragon Star]

...the threads from outer space ...

Threads from outer space? That must be new...

[Dragon Star]

I am not so sure you get how wormholes work, then again I am not so sure I have it right either

It is not an instant thing, if you could go into a wormhole, time would pass ubber fast, millions of years would pass before your eyes, and if I have it right you age the same, so it is theoretically impossible for a human to achieve this.

[Candy]

[Sporally]

@Dragon Star
...threads from outer space... Where do you see that, huh, huh? Ok, i edited it

The theory you have about ageing is new to me. First of i have to say there are many different theories what will happen if you used a wormhole. Personally, with my lack of knowledge on this subject, i don't think you will age. But this is again another reason why you should not send the entire humanity back in time with all their technology - but then we can send robot miners. That should be possible even if your theory is right, shouldn't it?

[Dragon Star]

First of all there are lots of kinds of Wormholes, I am talking about the Einstein-Rosen bridges which say that it is impossible for a traveler to go through this type of wormhole because they can only go through a horizon in one direction.( coming out of a black hole is not so easy)

Well my reason for my previous explanation is that the same rules should apply to wormholes as black holes, Ok, we have John and Jane, if John watched Jane fall into a black hole, it would take millions of millions of years for her to even move from john's point of view, BUT from Jane's point of view she is moving SUPER fast spiraling inward toward the black hole. Black holes warp space/time so severely that time looks to not even move to the observer.

And because wormholes are black holes that are attached to white holes theoretically,( with the Einstein-Rosen bridge) the same laws should apply.

Problem with the Einstein-Rosen bridge is that the mass of the ship or object going through the tunnel could collapse it, making for a very bad day for the object inside.

[beskeptical]

Be nice Candy, don't scare off the new kid.

[beskeptical]

Might want to review the South Park episode on the Goobacks. These guys from the future flooded the past with cheap labor. I doubt taking fuel sources from the future would ever be a good idea. The Universe has a fixed amount of energy and energy we use today is the same energy from tomorrow.

First, the Galaxy has abundant energy. We just need to harvest it in different ways.

What is fuel and what is energy? Chemical reactions can either give off energy of take up energy depending on the direction of the chemical bond. So when we burn fuel to get heat, we are causing a chemical reaction and using the heat that is given off.

There is also energy in the form of gravity. It can be described as potential energy when water is in a reservoir. Gravity then exerts a pulling force on the water when it is released from the reservoir.

There is tidal energy that is also the result of gravity force. There are tidal generators being put increasingly to use.

Wind is the result of temperature variations from solar heating. Air currents are also affected by the friction energy from the Earth's spin (existing momentum) Wind energy can be harvested.

Then there are all the radiant waves and particles shooting through space and radioactivity already in rocks and other materials here on Earth. That can be harvested for energy.

We don't have an energy shortage. We have a technology shortage.

[mickal555]

And mass is energy- lots of energy.

[Sporally]

We don't have an energy shortage. We have a technology shortage.

True, i have studied the forms of energy a bit, but i expect (yes, i'm talking future like hell way into the future) we will be pretty cold once all stars are transformed into the different types of drawf stars - red, white aso. Can't remember when which one appears. Of course this is far into the future that we don't know what will happen with our technology. Maybe we have no problems in surviving. I'm always talking big, and one day we will face the time where there are no left to keep us alive and The Big Rip is threatning. AFAIK this Big Rip will happen after the stars are gone, so to survive when the lights go out and to survive the universe being teared apart.

[Sporally]

So does any of you guys have any idea of how to survive the untimate challange if, let's say, it will all end in The Big Rip?

And what if we say The Big Crunch?

[farmerjumperdon]

So does any of you guys have any idea of how to survive the untimate challange if, let's say, it will all end in The Big Rip?

And what if we say The Big Crunch?

I thought it was pretty well established that information, much less any kind of organization of matter (which requires information) could not survive a theoretical Big Crunch.

For the end here, just pretend I found a little snake-like smiley thing coming out of a little wormhole-like goodie thing.

[Sporally]

OK, bad thought experiment

[farmerjumperdon]

Don't leave yet, I have more.

I was wondering if the laws of nature (laws of physics) would survive a crunch. Wouldn't that require information? I suppose it depends on what a person believes to be the source of the laws of physics.

So, would the laws of physics be susceptible to change if we went thru a cycle of contraction and expansion?

[Candy]

Be nice Candy, don't scare off the new kid.

I like your goo link.

Drexler still makes me...

[Candy]

Here's some more phrases for the goo word(s) and nanotechnology.

[LurchGS]

Nothing IN the universe would survive the heat-death/big crunch.

However, since mathmatical models postulate alternate universes, we MIGHT be able to move from one to another.

It would almost certainly take a LOT of energy, but by the time we can do it, we probably should.

The problem with using a black hole in any capacity as part of a wormhole junction is you still need to get past the mass that makes it a black hole. every model I've seen puts that mass squarely in the way. (there may be other models I've not seen. In fact, there probably are)

I'd be more interested in negative matter (postulated only, mathematically. Obviously no samples have been discovered) as a means of opening wormholes (see Dr Forward's 'TimeMaster' for some fun examples)

[Sporally]

Are there any theories available on the internet that states how it might be possible in the far future to actually control the universe? Of course we could jump from one to another, but i don't like running away from danger if you know how to tackle it. There might be a way in the far future.