Order of Kilopi
After I posted this on the thread asking if we should have a Google Earth thread or forum, I decided not enough people would see it there so I'm giving it space of its own. If it's already been up then I apologize. I wasn't sure what to key word to use in a search to see if it had been posted, (and I was feeling a bit lazy.)
Originally Posted by beskeptical
Order of Kilopi
Is no one impressed but me?
Established Member
Okay, since I brought it up.
No, I'm not impressed and I was wondering when the first hacking of the GE image would occur. This needs confirmation on the ground.
No proof of meddling, but look at the edge of the 'face' and compare it with the edge of the adjacent erosion where it meets the original ground level. Distinct difference in texture - is this image manipulation? So is it a simulacrum or a hack?
Also, look at the profile and compare it with that of a native North American and a South American. IMHO it matches the SA native much more closely. Unless there is other evidence of physiognomy of that type in past NA natives, why should ancient Canadian people draw a Mayan face? So if it is real, is it an ancient artefact?
The Marree Man ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marree_Man ) in Australia is quite real, much bigger than this and was drawn after original cave drawings, but was made in the last few years, by someone with a plough and a GPS. Has the Face been modelled in recent time? Only ground inspection can tell.
Unlike the Face on Mars and other 'artefacts', we don't have to go millions of miles to see it close up. This is only 26 miles from Medicine Hat and 7 miles from Canadian Road 1 - come on you guys in Medicine Hat! Calgary 186 miles, Moose Jaw 200 miles. I can drive that far and back in a day, even in the crowded UK!
Even better, soneone fly over it! Medicine Hat, Empress McNeill, Maple Creek airports and something called CFB Suffield are within 50 miles.
Let's not speculate until someone has seen the site.
John
Order of Kilopi
I'm impressed by the picture, but agree that we need to be sure it hasn't been doctored, or embellished by manmade alterations on the ground. After all, there is a road to it...
Order of Kilopi
That's not a road; he's listening to an I-pod.
Order of Kilopi
Here's the Google Earth forum link. They didn't brush it off. Do you think there wasn't a skeptic among them? Has no one found out about this hacking in as much time as has passed?
Are you saying someone hacked Google Earth and changed the image? That would be amazing. Got anything to support that besides your observation of the image character? It would also be amazing if there was a man made aspect to the structure.
In the meantime, for those of you needing a see for yourself view, as I did, the coordinates are 50.00.37.28 N 110.06.52.01 W (put in the appropriate degree, minutes etc where the ...s are). Go to Google Earth and zoom in to those coordinates and see for yourself.
And I await the verdict of natural, man made or hack.
Newbie
Since I seem to have been the first to bring this into the "formal" skeptical community with my very first post at SFN:
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/...?TOPIC_ID=5489
... I felt I should come to this fine forum and comment.
Thanks beskeptigal, for bringing this matter over here!
I want to be very clear: I don't think there is anything supernatural, extraterrestrial, or even artificial about the "Alberta Indian." To me, it's "just" a remarkable coincidence of nature having carved part of a human figure into the badlands of Alberta. (That is, it is natural aside from the looping dirt road and apparent watering pond, which make up the "iPod" part of the feature.)
I today posted arguments on the SFN thread that, I feel, deal with the likelihood of the terrain image having being faked.
Essentially, I've noted there that the feature also appears on Google Maps, and TerraServer, both of which use the same source, satellite imagery supplied by DigitalGlobe. Thus, if there was any editing of the imagery, it was not by Google Earth's staff. Another point: Using Google Earth with the terrain elevation feature turned on, one can clearly see that the elevation data for the feature exactly matches the image data. So the terrain elevation data would have had to be faked along with the imagery, if fakery there be. Please see the above SFN link for my more detailed argument.
Thus, I think it's time for people to consider that this terrain feature itself almost certainly does exist. I admire the beauty of the Alberta Indian, while realizing it's just a random feature of topography.
Last edited by HalfMooner; 2006-Jan-25 at 06:55 AM.
Established Member
Aren't we all?
Order of Kilopi
Hey, HalfMoon, welcome to the BAUT forum. I think we could also check one of the topo map sites for a different source to confirm the feature. I'll let someone else do that. Here are more faces in nature just for fun, but not for changing the thread until the hacking Google question is resolved.
Established Member
All,
While I only have my skepticism to support my assertions, it would be foolish to even speculate about this, until it has been eyeballed by someone independent. I can't do that from the UK.
Is there no one here from central Canada, who will go and check? Medicine Hat is only 40 miles away, and major cities are within 200 miles. Even in the crowded, traffic choked UK that is a reasonable, there-and-back-in-a-day drive. But is it more fun to speculate?
I've emailed the owner of the flying school at MH and asked him to look next time he is over that way. Hope he's as interested as we are - if it's real, it would be a great sight for his pupils, but as it is clearly visible from GE's simulated 1000ft, I'm surprized that they haven't noticed it already.
John
Newbie
Great idea, John! Nothing like getting someone out for an actual look-see. I just hope there is not a shopping mall on the location now.
That it's not been noticed by flyers previously, I have some speculation about that: The feature is incised by erosion into the side of a mesa, a "negative sculpture." In the satellite image, the angle of the sun is approximately from the south. This creates a false visual cue that the feature is a "positive sculture," since our brains are wired to expect to see shadows on the lower parts of objects. (An example of this perceptual effect is in viewing craters on extraterrestrial bodies. They tend to look like domes when the images are oriented "wrong.") Looking like a positive sculpture, I think, makes the feature much more "recognizable" as "human."
Someone in an aircraft, seeing it from a variety of angles, would have many additional visual cues that would tend to make this terrain feature look just like what it really is, a gully, rather than like the "Alberta Indian" our brains construct from looking at a single overhead image. Also, anyone in an aircraft would be far more likely to look out and see it from an oblique angle than from directly overhead. Few windows in aircraft floors.
I hope your fellow in Medicine Hat is able to go out there, and maybe snap some photos!
Newbie
Here are some irrelevant notes of possible interest (i.e., ramble warning!):
According to Wikipedia's entry on Medicine Hat (now a city of about 52,000 souls, just west of the "Alberta Indian"), the town's name derives from a Native American legend about a shaman's headdress, lost during a battle between the Cree and the Blackfeet tribes.
When the local townsfolk were considering changing their town name to "something more 'nomal,'" British writer Rudyard Kipling, who happened to be visiting, convinced them to keep the original name because it would always be unique. Kipling also praised the town for being on the site of huge gas deposits, saying, "Medicine Hat was born lucky...You people in this district seem to have all Hell for a basement."
"Hell for a Basement" later became the title of a song, recorded by the rock band, Big Sugar.
Wikipedia adds, "Medicine Hat residents are often referred to as 'Hatters'."
Wikipedia's article on Alberta says: "In southeastern Alberta, where the Red Deer River traverses the flat prairie and farmland, are the Alberta badlands with deep gorges and striking landforms. Dinosaur Provincial Park, near Drumheller, Alberta, showcases the badlands terrain, desert flora, and remnants from Alberta's past when dinosaurs roamed the then lush landscape."
On a more humorous note, there's this link... :
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i1/landforms.asp
... to a page on the infamous Creationist "Answers in Genesis" site, where, in a confused ramble, they apparently attempt to tie the Biblical Flood with "... the Cypress Hills erosion surface in southeast Alberta and southwest Saskatchewan ..."
The Cypress Hills is an eroded area directly south of the "Alberta Indian." From other things I've recently read while Web-researching the general area, it appears that many of the local landforms were created by catastrophic flooding, when huge lakes broke through ice dams at the end of the last Ice Age, and immense torrents suddenly roared toward the Pacific or Gulf of Mexico.
Last edited by HalfMooner; 2006-Jan-26 at 03:54 AM.
Order of Kilopi
Well my topo map site only has USGS maps of the US. The Canadian sites I tried all had pay per view stuff. Anyone have a free Canadian topo map link besides Google Earth?
Order of Kilopi
Some of those are creepy!
Established Member
I downloaded an orthophoto of the area (centered on lat 50.0104 and long -110.11273) from mapsalberta.com. The feature certainly exists, but isn't particularly remarkable when viewed using aerial photography as the source data.
I won't post the image as it is copyrighted. A trial subscription is CDN$9.58.
Established Member
I plugged it into 3dem but the resolution was too low to see anything other than the ridges in the area.
Established Member
Torsten,
"The feature exists". As an eroded valley, like the surrounding features, of as a human profile. As you know, the human eye/brain is very good at spotting patterns that aren't really there, especially when you have seen the paattern you are supposed to see. Eg the well known candelabra/twofaces, or the spotty dog illusions.
Inspired by you, I searched for other imagery of Canada, and found MapMart. Focussing on the relevant area, I was able to to down to a rather lo-res image, equivalent to the GE view from 5000ft. And By George! there is something there! But I am still suspicious that my eye is seeing a facelike shape which I would never have seen if I had not first seen the GE image. It's at the correct Lat 'n' Long.
I tried to capture the image but it doen't work. Try this link: http://www.mapmart.com/scripts/hsrun...art=HS_Handler
John (Still skeptical)
Last edited by JohnD; 2006-Jan-28 at 10:37 PM.
Established Member
That formation is certainly one of the best examples of pareidolia I've seen. For some reason, American Indian -style profiles seem to be common among pareidolia faces.
Established Member
JohnD:
Yes, that's what I mean. I'm saying that this geologic feature visible in certain satellite images is also visible in aerial photography, i.e., an independent source of information. It supports the idea that the satellite images have not been manipulated. But I'm also suggesting that the aerial photography doesn't lend itself as well to pareidolia as does the satellite imagery.
Actually, if I really let my imagination run wild with either the satellite image or the orthophoto, I can see another guy in a headdress blowing smoke at the back of the first guy's head. . . or is he eating his headdress?
And if the image is rotated N to S, I find its negative relief (valley) to be more more easily interpreted (make the light come "from above", or the upper part of the image).
Order of Kilopi
Link is broken, JohnD
Established Member
Sorry about that.
Try this: http://www.mapmart.com/WorldSatellit...ies/Canada.htm
If you go to the base website, you find only pay for service maps, but this seems to bypass that. You have to find your own way down towards ground level, and the eventual image is lowres, but good luck! I used the 'Roads' and 'Borders' buttons on GE to give me reference points, as the initial screen at MapMart are those only, later contours, only as you focus down do you get images
JOhn
Order of Kilopi
I wonder if that's true in say, Europe, China, or Africa, or the original India.
By the way, did anyone catch the "Face on the Pacific Ocean floor"? Warning: source was a Coast to Coast AM guest.
Order of Kilopi
That one's a bit of a stretch, 01. But interesting.
Established Member
Seems like I passed through here before. Has anyone brought up the Leafs yet? E-mail me when you do.
Established Member
Leafs? Leaves? Liefs?
John
Established Member
All,
I had no reply from the Medicine Hat flying school, so expanded the circle of local airfields, and got one responder, who is "intrigued!" No report as yet.
As this could have an embarassment factor for the 'civilian' involved, I won't say where they are, and will request their permission to put their name to any report here.
I hope that an object like this visible from a small plane will be a source of income for a flying school, so they would want to publicise it if it is there.
John
Established Member
Accidental duplication
Established Member
Face on Canada?
Face on Mars!!!
See: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...-B729R1_br.jpg
Not one but TWO profiles, in the rim of Erebus crater. The Opportunity crew have dubbed it "Roosevelt", but they know their Presidents better than I do, as I can't see any resemblence in either profile. They have studiously avoided any reference to the formation as a simulacrum, but they must be chortling with glee - a REAL Face on Mars!
John
Established Member
All,
It was disappointing that no one the mid-West of Canada seems interested in replying to my enquiries - until Mr.Mark D.Caswell of Maple Creek responded! Thank you, Mark!
It appears the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation?) has done a thoroughly professional job on this story, tracking down the original GE poster, and interviewing the Professor of Geology at Alberta U.
Several links are included.
This does seem to be the real thing! It's a wierd world.
Rather than try to precis it, here is our exchange in full, with links:
Dear Dr. Davies:
This is a somewhat late response to an email that you sent me several months
ago regarding the likeness of a native Canadian in the landscape a short
distance from our town. Please follow the link below to find a little more information about the anomaly:
http://www.cbc.ca/aih/features/2006/..._20061026.html
It appears that this feature does actually exist, is not man made, and it is
not a hack in Google Earth. The likeness is remarkable.
In any case, I apologize for the late reply and I wish to thank you for
bringing it to my attention.
Best wishes;
Mark D.Caswell
Administrator
Town of Maple Creek
Ph. 306-662-2244 Ext. 21
Fax 306-662-4131
townofmaplecreek@sasktel.net
www.maplecreek.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: John Davies [mailto:john.r.davies@btinternet.com]
Sent: January 27, 2006 4:54 AM
To: townofmaplecreek@sasktel.net
Subject: FAO Maple Creek Flying Club
Dear Maple Creek,
Please will you pass this email to members of your Flying Club?
You may have found the wonderful new IterNet resource, Google Earth.
It shows photo images of the Earth, some at very high res, and allows you to explore them, virtually flying across the landscape, all around the world.
On there, someone recently found what is now called the "Face on Canada",
the profile in an erosion pattern of what may be an American Native. If you
go to Google Earth, and enter "50.01, -110.11 " in the 'Fly To' box at top
left, GE will take you to the object. It's only 30 miles east by north from Maple Creek and on GE it is clearly visible from a simulated height of 1000
to 5000ft..
This is causing all sorts of excitement on the InterNet, but my skeptical
nature says that someone should go and look, in case this is a hack into GE
that doesn't exist, or something constructed in recent times, perhaps with a plough. I can't do so - I live in the UK!
If someone would fly over the area and look for the 'Face' it would be most
helful, and I hope interesting. Please vle me know whatever you find. If it does exist, no doubt many people will want to fly over and see it!
Thank you
Dr.John Davies
Albert House
Haverbreaks
Lancaster
England
Order of Kilopi
Well, the two pics don't even look the same to me. I smell a rat.
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